spiderman

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 06:14 PM) Don't know if anybody has seen these two articles that came out today. I've included the links to them. After reading them the conclusion I come to is that this franchise is in deep, deep trouble. In trouble from a competitive standpoint, in trouble from an attendance standpoint, in trouble from a rating / viewer standpoint and in trouble from a perception / relevance standpoint. (Notice however I didn't say from a financial standpoint...) Overall it appears to me this franchise hasn't been this bad off since the late 80's when they were threatening to move to Florida. Just look where the Sox rank TV-wise in the two graphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/new-numbers...n-not-imminent/ "This isn’t just a bad group of position players, it is arguably one of the worst collections of position players ever assembled." http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-impress...te-sox-offense/ Mark The offense is so bad, it's hard to sit here and pretend that everyone is just having a down season, etc; the entire IF outside of 1B is in need of an overhaul and the OF is probably not going to change. It's just hard to see this team getting much better in the near future without adding 2 impact players (IF positions) to the middle of the lineup.

QUOTE (Señor Ding-Dong @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 11:05 PM) The real question is how one could spend time on a White Sox forum about the White Sox and not know the prospect status of Tim Anderson. A very difficult question, indeed. Seeing as how you have the entire internet at your disposal, you could take five minutes out of your life to check Anderson's stats, read his scouting report, and maybe even watch a little film rather than asking anonymous message board posters, expecting them to answer, and taking their word for it if they do answer. Amazing that there would be so much drama created by simply asking White Sox fans, on a pretty dedicated forum, a question that most could answer in their sleep. I don't have much time to search around; I was in this thread where one of the subjects was Tim Anderson. Shockingly, I asked a question about him that I could have found elsewhere; by that measure, no other questions should be asked, and opinions without factual evidence are banned.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 11:20 PM) Lol you are on a White Sox forum with a whole section for the prospects in our organization. I don't want to sound like more of an ass but it is pretty easy to find out how he has been doing on this forum or by just googling his name. Check out this thread: Law's Top 50 Thanks. You could have provided this up-front.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 10:36 PM) Yes. Google. Or a White Sox forum who talks about the White Sox COULD answer the question. Not that difficult of a question.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 08:59 AM) Simple question, would you trust two of Saladino/Sanchez/Johnson to plug up 2B/SS for the forsee able future? Im leaning closer and closer to yes. I have little doubt Johnsons bat will be able to play. That's weird saying, I haven't thought that about a Sox MILB guy in forever. His defense needs to come along, but I think it will. So hopefully one of Saladino and Sanchez pan out to something decent. The other could hopefully make for a utility man. I still have faith in Sanchez. His glove is that good where his bat won't have to do too much more, if we can plug up a few other positions offensively. Sanchez is not a major league hitter. It was almost comical to see how shallow the OF's play him. He doesn't hit any balls hard, and is slappy hitter at best. Johnson may not be 2B long-term, correct? I think offensively, they have to find a spot for him, but that won't happen until he learns to play defense. Is Anderson having a good season? I've heard nothing about him. Is he still a top prospect? I don't know much about Saladino; I assume that he'll settle back into being a Triple A type player. Is there reason to think he can be a decent MLB player?

As dumb as some of the comments/rumors may be regarding the White Sox current position in this season, I can't believe they aren't actively looking to move as many parts as possible. Obviously, there has to be a market for their players, and the willingness to pay for a player to play on another team in some situations; point being, it may not be feasible to trade every player they'd prefer to, but I do expect movement. As far as this being a 3 year plan, this team appears to be far away, in my view. 1) Chris Sale and Jose Quintana (although he has been a bit rocky at times) are good building block pieces needed for a quick turnaround. Carlos Rodon should also fit into that scenario next season, but they will be looking for another Jeff Samardzija this off-season if they plan on competing next season given the obvious need of a right handed starter with top-of the rotation stuff. 2) The IF is in awful shape. Is Tim Anderson ready to play SS next season? Are there any 3B candidates? Who plays 2B? Carlos Sanchez, to date, is a weak hitting slap hitter who is not a major league hitter. 3) Melky Cabrera has been an underwhelming addition and Adam Eaton has regressed. Can both rebound? Do the White Sox have another other option but to hope? The offense lacks a legitimate #4 and #5 hitter. LaRoche is more of #6 type hitter. The bullpen has improved and Robertson has had an excellent first season; the rest of the bullpen has had it's ups and down, but overall better though it's not one I trust in the later innings of a close game. All in all, I do have my doubts over how much room this team to improve. They spent a lot of money last off-season. How much money will they have to spend this off-season? If they go down the trading route, moving young talent (of the few that they do have) for proven major league talent is short-sighted. They need to be adding, not subtracting for any long-term growth as opposed to an occasional one year blip.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 08:36 AM) With the weekend series in the books and the Sox losers of 4 of the last 5, I think we are going to start seeing movement any day now. Not sure if we want separates threads for any trades, but I figured we should have a centralized area for rumors/trades. Seeing that Houston is prioritizing adding a pitcher and also looking at adding a bat, specifically first base. I wonder if the Astros and the Sox have discussed anything surrounding Samardzija and LaRoche? If this weekend was any indication, the White Sox should be sellers. They can't have any extended losing streaks and basically need to go on an extended hot streak. They have now lost 4 of 5, and are towards the bottom of the AL. Their offense is one of the worst in recent memory. With a glut of starting pitching on the market, they may want to think about striking first with Samardzjia.

Although John Danks is awful, he pitched a great game last night. The White Sox have 9 games left prior to the all star break. They probably need to win 7 of the remaining 9 to make it 10 of 12 heading into the break to feel like they have a some shot in the 2nd half. Chances are, they will go 5-4 or 4-5 as they have proven out this year to not be a good team.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 05:11 PM) I told you guys all our veteran "name" players will be sought after. Please Sox, dump LaRoche and Melky and Lexi and Robertson and Duke and Shark in a major "do-over" of the past offseason. I'm confident Hahn will get it right this time. If the White Sox are able to trade Melky Cabrera, Lexi, LaRoche and Robertson, it's because the White Sox have agreed to pay some of their remaining money. There is no great demand for underachieving veterans who are making coin.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 05:07 PM) I believe it was Rosenthal that mentioned it, but I'm positive this was mentioned, I just can't find anything on it right now. But with Matt Adams out, and LaRoche's familiarity with the NL, it does make sense. What would the Cardinals offer? He's owed $13 million next season. They probably would give very little in return and ask the White Sox to pick up some of next year's salary.

This White Sox reminds me a lot of the Bears season. There were expectations coming into the season for both teams, and both just embarrassed themselves with horrible fundamental play. How many games have we seen the White Sox just struggle to play defense? Base running? Everything generally looks worse when a team doesn't hit, but the White Sox aren't playing tricks on your eyes. Not only do they not hit, but they don't field or run the bases. It's probably too late to fire Robin Ventura and hope for any difference, I doubt it even would have mattered. I feel sorry for Carlos Sanchez, he looks so overmatched at the plate; I feel how he hits is how i would hit, little dribblers and weak popups, but he's not the only one. 3B, C and 2B are guaranteed outs. John Danks is a human gas can. The rest of the rotation, outside Sale, has been up and down. This looks like a 70-75 win team. If everything goes right.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:30 PM) This is good stuff today. http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2015061...orts/150618856/ Is this something new? Don't we hear this all the time? Copy what the champion has done if you want to have long-term success or turn things around? In this case, the only difference is copying from another local team, unrelated to baseball, but, this came up when the Bears fired their coach/GM as well.

Sure, they could send Flowers or Sanchez to the minors, bench Cabrera or Ramirez. All that does is put another bad player in the lineup. Obviously, they are pretty much underachieving on offense across the board, but it shouldn't be completely surprising that the bottom of the order with 3B, C, and 2B all question marks to open the season are horrendous. It's more of a surprise that pretty much everyone else in the lineup has either been mediocre or flat out bad. Point is, bench guys, send some to the minors, I don't think that fixes the larger issue of bad.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:52 PM) It's going to be difficult to trade him and get top value for him. How many teams have two top 25 prospects, which is what it takes to begin the talks? Would Addison Russell, Kyle Schwarber and 1-2 other prospects (at least 1 in the top 100) work? Obviously, it's difficult to see the White Sox making this type of move with the Cubs, but you'd need something along these lines just to start talks and most teams do not have a farm system that comes close to the Cubs. In other words, options are limited.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:45 PM) I have no problem entertaining the idea of trading Sale but until an actual value can somehow be determined I really do not see the point. I would not know where to begin. It's going to be difficult to trade him and get top value for him. How many teams have two top 25 prospects, which is what it takes to begin the talks? Would Addison Russell, Kyle Schwarber and 1-2 other prospects (at least 1 in the top 100) work?

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:55 PM) I believe that if the Sox are out of it at the deadline not only should they try to bring in some young talent into the system, but I believe that they should be hoping for the highest draft pick possible, that could do some serious wonders for the org. Let me say that I think the team should be in the mix for the division in 2016, but with another high draft pick and what not they could open and prolong their window. Theo Epstein always said that if your team is out of it after the deadline, you might as well hope for the highest draft pick possible. They aren't going to get much for Alexi Ramirez. Who else are you realistically trading? The minor league system is still bad. They do have a nice 3 man lefty rotation next season with Sale, Quintana and Rodon, an all-star 1B in Abreu, but that's about it.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:59 PM) The Sox can not do the Cubs did, the fanbase won't allow it. What fan base? You're really going to make decisions around the worst (or bottom rung) fan base in the majors? They don't have one. If they are truly convinced they can win, then fine, trade for Hamels. Make the rotation so strong that they can win every game 4-3 or 3-2.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:48 PM) If they traded Sale, it would mean they were overwhelmed. Overwhelm us. And while you're at it, listen on Quintana and Abreu too. Look, if your major league team sucks, you have to infuse the system with assets, and get back in line again. Obviously what they're trying to do isn't working, so they have to try something different even if a few fans don't like it. Exactly. I'm leaning in this direction as elite as Sale is. I realize it won't happen. The White Sox are more likely to continue tinkering around the edges. That could work as well, but I think the Cubs should be a model for the White Sox.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:42 PM) Sox fans can't handle a couple of months of bad baseball. They would have a conniption fit if Chris Sale got traded, no matter what the return. Can't make moves based on the 15K fans who show up at games. If the White Sox could trade Quintana, Sale and Abreu, and get back 4-5 top 25 minor league prospects, plus 2-3 others in the top 100, is that enough? Turn into the Cubs pretty much for 3 years, and have a crazy minor league system.

On the other hand, I'd say, if the White Sox management truly believes this team is underachieving, they should trade for Cole Hamels tomorrow.

QUOTE (Real @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:14 PM) this was talked about last year. general consensus was no (and I agreed) its a year later. figured its at least worthy of discussion if nothing else with his contract/remaining yrs, what is the proper value for #49 imho you need someone whos got a stud catcher who cant miss as a top priority in the deal as well as a cant miss SP You'd have to get a team's top 4 prospects for him, and at least two of them would have to be top 20 prospects., if not higher. All 4 would have to be top 100 guys. Just too valuable to waste on a team like the White Sox, but can't move him for anything less than ridiculous value. Quintana and Abreu may as well be moved as well if Sale is.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 26, 2015 -> 12:53 PM) I think there is an important question. This looks like a .500 team which many of us predicted. But there were other fans who projected 90 wins and are now ranting about everything being wrong. I think the big question is Robin. How big of a problem is he and his staff. If Robin is a big problem then you make minor moves and maybe Shark gets moved since he would be gone anyway. Maybe LaRoche can also be moved but probably as a salary dump with little return. You can't trade Alexei because you probably don't have an adequate replacement. If you want a catcher, the only tradeable assets are probably pitching i.e Q?? But that opens another hole. If Robin is not the main problem, then you need to blow up some more of the roster and continue the rebuild shooting for 2017. Do people believe there would be a 8-10 game difference (81-81 to 90-72) if the White Sox had a different manager? I'm not really a Ventura supporter; he got this position with no experience and because he was a former White Sox player. That sort of tells me the value the team places in a manager. The biggest issues remain even after the off-season where some of these issues were thought to have been addressed. They have received little production or less than anticipated at C, 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF and DH. The end of the rotation is as bad as expected and even the front-line guys have been spotty at times.

4-7 or 3-8 is probably the two most likely outcomes of this road trip. 5-6 or 2-9 being the next candidates. If this road trip goes the way I think it will, they are likely 10 games out of 1st place by early June. Everyday that goes by means Samardzia has less value with his contract status so Hahn will need to be in a spot where a major decision will need to be made early. It's hard to see the White Sox getting major value for him if they wait until end of July. It's easier to see the team getting good value with a move in early June should the wheels fall off. If the White Sox just tread water, say 5-6 on this road trip, and are 8 games back, what then? The same questions still apply. If Hahn wants to resign a guy who won't talk until free agency hits, do they take that risk? They would get a draft pick back in that scenario (to my understanding). So, a major decision looms

The Sox are not going to be buyers the way things are headed. If anything, they could be an early seller with Samardzia's contract situation.

Too many easy outs in this lineup. Not enough impact hitters.