southsider2k5

QUOTE (HeGone7 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 04:13 PM) I didn't realize they had told us the package yet. I'm surprised to hear that Moncada + Benintendi and whatever else isn't on the table "in-season." If by some miracle you get a Betts, then so be it, wait until the off-season. If that is your requirement, you've ruled out Boston and they're a moot point then because they don't have the pitching. Your best option has a PED suspension under his belt, injuries and is 3 years away from the majors I'd say. Not to mention his innings restriction upon arrival. Hasn't shown the upside of a Sale/Q. I personally don't think you need an arm for Sale. I think you need to get as much value as you can since he has the most selling power. Whoever that comes from. Hitting should trump filling the void of Sale. This is rebuilding, not re-tooling and putting the same roster together with different names. I do think you need to acquire an arm or three in the process. I think some good arms will be available for less (see Pomeranz). With Boston you have potential to net 2 of the top 6/9 prospects in baseball, and more, it sounds like. I'll target a front-line pitcher in another deal. This is all based on the assumption the Sox are open for business and plan on rebuilding the whole thing. If you're keeping pieces around, then obviously I would maximize targeting those holes. SP may be one of them in that case. If you're flipping the whole thing - you get as much value as you can on your big chips. You isolate on the lesser ones. The post you responded to had a list of players coming from Boston. One of those players was Groome, who was just drafted. He can't be a part of any trade, even as a PTBNL, until after the end of the World Series.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:50 PM) I don't need any advice from you on whether or not I should or shouldn't be posting and/or reading other posts on sox talk, or any other board.. thanks…. I can handle an opinion from the average fan that really isn't based on anything… What I can't handle is your relentless defending of the organization irregardless of the situation.. or whether or not fan criticism is justified…We get you have a low opinion of the fan who choses to criticize the organization… Feel free to ease up on that … anytime... But somehow I need your advice? At least be consistent. It isn't that difficult. Or just scroll past the post. Feel free to try either, at any time. Afterall, you were the one who jumped in on me first.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) No chance we'd get both Moncada and Benintendi, but either is perfectly reasonable as a centerpiece if the other pieces are strong. Benintendi is going to be an absolute monster. The contact rate is good, the plate discipline is good, and I've seen the power with my own eyes -- he played our team the year he was drafted, and hit two homers, one of which is the only ball I've ever seen clear the fence, the road, and land in the water outside the Staten Island Ferry. The pop is legit. If you aren't getting both, a deal shouldn't get done. At worst you have Chris Sale until next decade.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:41 PM) I agree but more along the lines of 55-45 not 90-10 or something really lopsided. I don't agree with that at all.

Hey Aroldis, it isn't that hard. 1. Throw really hard 2. Don't beat your wife. 3? 4. Profit

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) As far as zero proof.. I'll repeat .. you weren't there.. you have NO IDEA what happened…and are in NO position to cast judgement on any opinion as to what actually occurred... I never assumed any of my scenarios were true..and just because the notion that a reversal wasn't mentioned by Sale means squat… Its all media speak… All Sale wanted to get across from the statement was that Ventura wasn't in his corner… "Consider this".. means, keep an open mind before you rush to judgement…..a judgement that as usual, on your part, blindly defends the Sox organization... My thoughts are based on what has actually been reported. If new or different information comes out, those views can change. I wouldn't think it would be obvious to say this, but this is obviously based on what is reported so far, Chris Sale has reacted like a petulant child to this situation. By the way, if you don't like judgements, you probably should find something else to do than to post on a message board that is full of them. Quite literally every single post made on here has some level of assumptions based on what the posters have seen and heard, and none of us ever know the entire situation before posting, as none of us are employed by the Chicago White Sox. If you are that bother by opinions that aren't like your own, you probably should delete your account and find a safer place to read.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:24 PM) Why? None of those guys are on the ML roster. Groome was just drafted and can't be a part of any deal until after the World Series.

Joel Quenneville's Mustache · Rundblad and the Blackhawks have agreed to a termination of his contract. He will no longer count against the cap. We now have $2.4m inn cap space moving forward.

QUOTE (HeGone7 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) I'm taking the Boston package. If there is one thing to learn from our Northside friends it's that you load up on hitting. They've filled their rotation with FA for the most part, and had Arrieta not turned into the best pitcher on the planet for almost 2 years now, their rotation would likely include another Ace they acquired via FA/trade. I'm not saying Urias and/or De Leon won't be good, great, or better than the hitters from Boston. Just that I think your mindset needs to be to fill the farm with as many bats as you can. We've had success finding starters. You need less of them. There is plenty available annually in FA. Get 2 deep with hitting down there and see what pans out. The Boston package isn't possible until the off seaosn.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) Agreed. But they should do absolutely everything in their power to make sure the players are comfortable when they take the field to perform the job the team is paying them millions of dollars to do. I think the onus is the opposite. When you are being paid to do a job, a reasonable request, such as wearing a promo jersey which funds your salary, shouldn't be a big deal.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) They knew about his concerns in Spring training. I think that might have given them enough time to plan the rotation. A team should not have to plan promotions around what their players like or dislike.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) What does that say about our GM who made that deal that we are desperately trying to unload him because of the money we took on... That being said, if we try to compete next year, I don't mind the idea of a Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer, Shields rotation. But it may make sense to hold on to Gonzalez as the 5th if we can trade Shields for something decent. Save money and also probably not going to notice much difference between those 2 over the course of the year (not enough that it's worth the $ we're saving) Who said that? Link?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) You're a very smart guy and successful professional and I've noticed you have strong feelings about this. In the final analysis you are probably right. I have taken the side of Sale on this, assuming he didn't wield the knife near any other human being, just ripped up the uniforms. I will say if Sale had just torn up his uniform and refused to pitch, that would have been more effective. He would have had the hammer of public opinion on his side: "Cy Young candidate doesn't feel comfortable in collared throwback jersey, does not want to risk health of his arm and performance, refused to pitch.' That would have really embarrassed the Sox. Sale should have thought this through. Just destroying his own uniform or throwing it in the trash without a knife incident would have made him a hero. Hey no billion dollar pitcher should risk his arm health if he's not motivated to pitch that day. I guess you are right in whipping out a knife like a madman by the letter of employment law might warrant a suspension. I wish Sale had done it the other way though to embarrass the White Sox. I really feel it is a horrible organizaion.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) Juggle the rotation? It was completely reset after the break. It would've been as simple as switching Sale and Q's first starts after the break and this entire situation would've never even come up. Yes. If they had set it already, and guys had already adjusted their workout routines (such as when they throw on the side, etc) around it, yes that effects all of the starters who would have had to have moved because Sale didn't like the jersey.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:22 PM) I actually like what I see out of Gonzalez. Given the reputation we have for developing arms, I'm not so sure why he's so destined to blow up. Honestly I have nothing really solid to base it on, though two worries come to mind. #1 is how he fell off with Baltimore. #2 it seems like when we rescue these guys, they do have a short shelf life, and soon revert back to mediocrity. What he has working in his favor this year is that his velocities are all up across the board compared to last year with BAL. He is actually having his best year ever in terms of average FB velocity according to fangraphs. He also seems to have moved away from his fastball and become more of a guy who works backwards in terms of using his off speed stuff a lot more. Is that sustainable? That is the question.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:51 PM) In 130 IP, he has 4.55 ERA, 1.56 WHIP, 6.7 K/9, and 5.1 BB/9. In comparison, Spencer Adams, who was drafted in the same draft, has a 3.51 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, and a 1.5 BB/9 in 284 IP and is currently in AA. From everything I've seen, not a lot of people regard Spencer Adams as that great of a prospect, so Im not even sure what I would consider Kolek. A guy that throws hard but has no control and despite his velo, doesnt strike out a lot of people? On top of that, he now has health problems? Not that interested. You can't teach that kind of arm. The White Sox seem to have a talent for developing pitchers. To me the match up makes sense on paper.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:38 PM) You, me, or anyone else on this board was not there.. We don't know the whole story, so in turn, no one is qualified to judge…. So...Before people start playing judge, jury and executioner… consider that there could have been many, many issues that led up to this… Consider this… Sale's complaint was that the jersey affects his performance.. could it have been possible that it was agreed upon beforehand that if his start coincided with the promotion, that he would have't to wear the damn thing? or maybe wear a custom altered version of it? Could it have been possible that shortly before Chris was supposed to dress, there was reversal by management and they told him he to wear the damn throwback as is and STFU? Agreed. .. bad reaction on his part.. but I wouldn't discount terrible communication from both ends…. lol, there are an awful lot of assumptions here for someone who is talking about knowing the whole story. Nothing, and let me say it again, NOTHING, has been said that even remotely supports the idea that the Sox reversed course on this. Considering that Sale has thrown both Kenny Williams AND Robin Ventura under the bus at different points this year, you don't think he would have mentioned this pertinent fact while complaining about the rest of the incident? Not a chance. If you really need the full proof an account of all of this before you are allowed to have thoughts on the subject, it would make sense if you weren't adding ideas that have zero proof at all to the discussion.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:24 PM) OR you could be a decent boss and listen to arguably your best and most valuable employee's grievances and make plans to avoid a conflict. There are 4 other people who could've and likely should've been on the mound pitching that day. Considering it was only about a week after the AS break, it would've been really easy to accomplish. That is almost as silly. The Sox should have had to juggle their starting rotation because Chris Sale didn't like a jersey? Yeah, no. Wear the jersey dude.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:12 PM) However - if you've got 4 incidents in only 2 years time, you've made a strong case to try something different, because clearly what is being tried right now is failing to deal with the problem and instead seemingly allowing it to get worse. They obviously tried Sale's method of keeping it quiet and in the clubhouse before now, because the only thing we knew about was the LaRoche blow up. They seem to be trying something different now with the suspension.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:32 PM) i would think if anything he will pull from the Trump support more than the Clinton support. Absolutely.

QUOTE (Baseball palace of world @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) Something else to think about. This promotion was also about honoring players like Steve Stone, Harold Baines, Britt Burns, Chet Lemon, Carlton Fisk, Lamar Hoyt, manager Tony LaRussa. Ed Farmer. All wore these uniforms. Chris Sale 100% at fault for his actions. I also take the view that Robin is at fault for creating an environment that allowed Sale to do this. Robin is the worst manager I can remember. Worse than Bevington. Sale strikes me as the kind of guy who would have issues under a lot of managers. It is my guess that if you had someone more controlling of the clubhouse it would make things worse, not better, as he would have more to rebel against. The report before was that this was the 4th incident in about 2 years time.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:43 PM) I know the pitching market is wacky, but I would be floored if the Marlins dealt the #2 overall pick from two years ago for a 32 year-old journeyman. The only reason I threw it out there was because of the TJS for Kolek putting his future in the air to some extent, and because the market this year is just crazy.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:34 PM) It's an opportunity to complain about the organization and Robin during a frustrating season. If the team was winning, in the race, and Sale missed a start because he didn't like the uniform he'd be the one getting attacked for not being a team player and hurting *our* chances to win the division. This is where the focus should be. Not only did he cost us a start, but he destroyed our bullpen for the time being, which have seen ripple across the last two days of forcing the pen into a really bad situation and forcing guys to be unavailable to do their normal jobs. If Chris Sale doesn't get that you wear the promotional jersey on a promotional day, I'm not sure what else there really is to explain to the guy. This should be about the most obvious thing ever. If your boss tells you to wear something to work, you wear it. Period.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:05 PM) Why would you trade Gonzalez just to trade him? He has more value to the Sox than a team like the Marlins, especially if they move Sale or Quintana. It wouldn't be just to trade him. It would be to take advantage of a imbalanced market place on a guy that isn't really in your plans anyway. Honestly, I still expect him to self-destruct at any time.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:55 AM) Even though he's pitching well as of late that contract is sickening. If he's movable you have to move him. The return may not be strong (2-3 low level prospects) but his contract is too heavy on a team that already seems to have 4 set starters for next year in Sale, Q, Rodon, and Fulmer (Yes, I believe Sale and Q will remain Sox and they will) In 2016, $10 million a year for a starting pitcher isn't that much.