southsider2k5

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ May 17, 2006 -> 12:41 PM) Yep, flying out all over the world and testing the poorest of the poor to see who is most deserving yet qualified while deporting a worforce that is already here is the most logical, feasible, and affordable solution. :rolly Logical would be taking care of our own poor and disadvantaged before we take on another countries. Logic doesn't dictate breaking a countries laws, and insisting on being rewarded for it. The feasibility is just a direct result of where Mexico lies on this planet. If Mexico were in Africa, no one would care about them, just like no one seems to care about Sudan, Chad, and their likes. The only reason it is an affordable solution is because the illegals are vitrual slave labor, who work in dangerous conditions for illegal wages, and are denied all of the United States social programs. When they become legal, all of those preconditions will end and so will the "affordable"ness. That is unless you are advocating leaving the illegals status as a status quo so coroporate America can continue to exploit them, at the expense of paying a few more dollars an hour to pay our own poor.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:22 AM) Unsafe working conditions are covered by OSHA, and basic US protections are in place, so I am not concerned about most abuses. But then, let's tie it to the unemployment rate. If unemployement in the skill area the immigrant is applying for is increasing, then decrease the number of immigrants allowed and vice versa. It helps no one when workers are out of work. And I will not bankrupt the US by allowing more workers in than can be supported. Emphasis on worker in a Guest Worker program. Another way to help this is the company would have a limited number of "do overs", after that, they would not be allowed to continue to hire guest workers. The same objection I have to people that make statements that illegal is illegal and we should deal with it without looking at anything else, I have to statements that allow immigration for immigration sake. There has to be a need and benefit to the US. I will admit, when someone like Southsider is so opposed and believes that jobs aren't part of the equation, I start to doubt my position. He is far ahead of me with economics, but it seems too obvious. Actually you couldn't be more backwards on what I have said. A guest worker program is an excellent ideal to strive for. I just don't believe it should be a reward for illegal activities. The guest worker programs should originate at American consulates in every country where we screen and check applicants from all over the world to get the canditates we need, instead of simply being given to people who are lucky enough to get into the country illegally. If we need skilled labor we can give appropriate tests for it. If we need unskilled labor I believe we should bring in the people who need the USA most. We should consider victims of genocide, famine, and war first, then look at poor families who need jobs the most.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:08 AM) ^^^^^ perfect leader for the times. He also was pretty smart about immgration and what to do with Mexican nationals who were working in the US. Yeah, he sure fixed that problem

If the same poll had the Indians/Tigers/Twins it might mean something...

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 16, 2006 -> 08:38 PM) That's a great idea, something I can agree with. There will be some resistance from people who routinly buy money orders, VISA gift cards, and travelers checks who will object to proving citizenship before purchasing them. And I'll bet some stores will object to having to train their clerks to check for citizenship papers before selling them. Perhaps we could require a passport before purchasing money orders? Makes sense to me and the government would make money selling passports. We also have to pressure Mexico to lower how much in purchases their citizens can bring back. Right now, illegals could buy a bunch of clothes and stuff up to $500 and take them back across the border. Perhaps limiting much in goods someone could take with them as they leave the country would also be necessary. An illegal could just buy stuff and sell it back there. That would also lessen the appeal of being here illegally. Whether they are buying stuff and sending it or just sending cash, it is benefiting the people they are sending it to and is their motivation to be here. I was thinking about that $3 per hour illegal, which is about $6000 per year. After buying food and shelter, maybe some used clothes, how much is he sending back? I'll bet you and I send more than that overseas each year. Everytime we buy a shirt from Honduras, a car from Japan, or a pair of Nike's, money goes overseas. Starting now, I'm going back to buying all American. I've never bought a foreign built car, and never will, that would be sending big bucks overseas. I'm proud to say my employer has everything made in the USA. All of our suppliers are USA and most are Union. Doesn't get anymore American than that. You're right, what was I thinking. We should just annex Mexico and get it over with, right? I mean they obviously need our tax money more than we do, not to mention we need busboys and fruitpickers as you have pointed out, and no American should have to do that when we have Mexicans who will... Plus think of all the the crimes that won't have to be committed and all of the border patrol people we can just send over to Iraq because we won't need them here anymore! Plus we can just break them up into a bunch of states, throwin DC and Puerto Rico while we are at it, and get up to 60-70 states or so. Damn think how many jobs we could create for the flag makers alone! ANNEX MEXICO!!!

Boy last night the differences were profound. Taylor was by far the best, and Katharine was way better than Elliot. Elliot looked scared out of his mind last night. Katharine did to for her first song, but was OK after that.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 16, 2006 -> 02:32 PM) I suppose then it would be a fair question to ask you if you are in favor of these Mexican seperatist groups who go around saying "Gringo's out!!!!" Trouble is that the Minutemen are nothing like the fire-breathing racists that the leftists portray them as. They are a group of concerned citizens who are tired of the Federal Government ignoring what is a huge problem in our country. Well to be fair there is a pretty big racist contingent in there... There is no doubt in my mind we don't want citizens running around with guns patroling anything. That's called anarchy, and it is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place. On the other hand, I have zero problem with the National Guard protecting our borders, as well, they are the National Guard.

QUOTE(YASNY @ May 16, 2006 -> 02:06 PM) It got some Americans focused on the issue. Like when the flew the Mexican flag above the US flag. Flew the US flag upside down as a symbol of disrespect. Yes, I'll give you that point, they helped "focus" the issue. Or maybe even

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 16, 2006 -> 01:57 PM) I'm going to hijack a plane and fly it into the US-Mexico border. Think of the threat to national security that would cause. /ATTN: FBI NSA CIA ALPHABET SOUP -- The above should not be considered a "credible threat" I can't fly a plane. I bought a remote control plane with my allowance once when I was 11. I got it stuck in a tree within 15 minutes. Even my paper airplanes don't get very far. What I'm trying to say is, I'd never be able to pilot a plane from chicago to the border without crashing at least twice. I'm a Kennedy. Yeah what was I thinking. No terrorist would ever want to try bombing the spy capital of the evil empire, and therefore it would do absolutely no good to know things like how the building survives an impact or what it takes to make it burn, not to mention what the evacuation procedures look like, because why would they want to maximize killing and terror right? Blowing up buildings is so 1998.

So is this going to happen or not? July 6, 2005 October 12, 2005 Cheney indictment in France 2004 Cheney indictment during the election cycle Or Dick Cheney has already been secretly indicted I'll believe it when I see it.

QUOTE(YASNY @ May 16, 2006 -> 01:35 PM) If we can only get Americans to boycott drugs. That would be the ultimate way to stop a lot of problems in the world, but we all know better than that.

QUOTE(knightni @ May 16, 2006 -> 12:00 PM) It's a shame that a city as nice as Tampa has their players play in a 40K seat meat locker. I just thank God it wasn't the White Sox meat locker

Any word on what the format is for tonight???

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 16, 2006 -> 01:21 PM) Now that would actually do it. Of course, presumably you'd be willing to make exceptions for people who were actually on legal visas. Of course, anykind of legal entry would have to be an exception to a rule like that... Such as being here on a good passport, a legal visa etc. If one's status cannot be verified, then the rule would apply. As I have said repeatedly, you must end the incentives to be in the USA illegally for the invasion on our borders to stop.

QUOTE(YASNY @ May 16, 2006 -> 01:17 PM) Whatever the number, it would be a good start. Then, perhaps, a tourism boycott of Mexico might get their attention a bit more. What would get their attention quicker is to have a requirement of citizenship to wire money to outside of the USA.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 16, 2006 -> 01:08 PM) The situation on the southern border is not a good one. But it's certainly not at a turning point or expecting abrupt change or deterioration. If we did absolutely nothing right now, what would happen? The same number of immigrants who snuck across last week would sneak across this week. And so on through the end of the year, with only a little bit of variance. If you expected that in 1 week, 10x that number would try to cross, ok, that would be a turning point, and a crisis. But right now, the situation is at least stable. It's not stable in a good way, but it's not getting dramatically worse. Of course, the situation is not good, and it is time to do something about it in terms of legislation. Guest worker program allowing a path to citizenship, increased enforcment against businesses hiring illegals, a program to register those who are already here, and criminalizing future illegal immigration would be logical steps. But anywho, it's certianly not a crisis. A crisis will be what happens when there's an earthquake in San Francisco or L.A. and the California National Guard is 1/2 in Iraq and 1/3 sitting along the southern border with 95% of it's equipment gone. 500,000 people per year enter the US illegally through this specific border region. I guess can we can play the definition of "is" game here over what a "crisis" is, but the fact remains that there are an estimated 12 million people here illegally, with almost 2000 new people PER DAY arriving still. Don't call it a crisis if you like, but I call it a big f***ing problem.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ May 16, 2006 -> 12:09 PM) I still don't understand what took them so long. Its the Pentagon. Any little detail could compromise national security. Just viewing the video can give someone real world ideas about what would damage the pentagon... Its like a home instruction book for how to blow up a government building.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1631888/posts PENDLETON, ORE. - Out of ideas and low on cash one cold morning, the man with the biggest badge in town put his meaty fingers on a keyboard and tapped out a letter to the leader of Mexico. More at link

QUOTE(WinningUgly85 @ May 16, 2006 -> 07:44 AM) Call me crazy but I think we might trade either Pods or Uribe. Uribe has been amazing at short stop but his bat needs to pick up. I think that either Cintron might be a temp while we trade both pods and Uribe to try to get someone. I think Ozuna is ready to play play especially in left field. If you think about it Pods is starting to get things together but for awhile he was struggling. We need him to get on base and use his speed thats where he is most deadly. I think Ozuna has that speed as well. I will be as nice about this as I can be... Ozuna is a horrible left fielder, and would not do well playing everyday. There is zero chance of Uribe getting traded this year, short of Juan saying "trade me or else".

QUOTE(Credepopsup @ May 15, 2006 -> 06:53 PM) Here's a list of who's worn which number for the Hawks. It's an old site, so it only includes players upto the end of the 96/97 season. HAWKS NUMBERS Here's the home page - It's out of date, but worth a look. THE HOME PAGE Don't worry, there hasn't been anyone worth mentioning on the Hawks since about that time period

QUOTE(SnB @ May 15, 2006 -> 10:29 PM) he IS a big time celebrity. Stop slandering my client. Yeah, that's right, I'm jas's agent now. deal with it soxtalk The only problem is that Soxtalk is owned by the Bill Wirtz of message board owners... That's right, Jason Gage.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ May 16, 2006 -> 05:22 AM) The thing is if the Twins dealt Hunter, they would have to go outside the organization to replace him. Denard Span a former 1st round pick a while back is showing no power down at AA, and isn't ready to take over. I don't know who else is on the upcoming FA market in terms of CF's off the top of my head, but I'm guessing it probably won't be better than Hunter. But he's not worth the $12M that Minnesota will have to pay him. My guess is they'll trade him to a team for prospects, that includes a good center fielder among them. I believe if they don't aquire another CF in the deal, then they would move Lew Ford over to center, and plug in someone in the corners.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ May 15, 2006 -> 09:05 PM) Basically, I just really wanted to read the book before the movie came out. I had it laying around and finally decided to read it. I choice I do not regret. Now, I am not going to let this book completely change my orthodox following but it is pretty damn interesting. And as I type this and look at the picture of the Last Supper we have hanging above the computer, it is quite astounding to put some of the things you read to the test in real life. As much as people knock it, I still think that this is one of the greatest books I have ever read. One of the only books I ever read where I was actually almost right there with the characters. All the coded thy had to decipher, I tried to do so myself. You have to admit, the book is amazingly clever and brilliantly written. I am a HUGE fan. You might think it is good, and it could very well be an excellent work of fiction. Dan Brown at best borrow liberally from some extremely smart, well-reader, and well-researched authors. If you think DVC blew your mind, give some of these other people a try and you won't regret it.

Do yourselves a favor and watch the History Channel special on Decoding the Davinci Code and read the books of the authors they interview. Guys like Richard Leigh who wrote Holy Blood, Holy Grail are way better books than this.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ May 15, 2006 -> 04:15 PM) What the hell are you even talking about? Do you honestly believe that the wage increase once these people are legal would be so great that it would monumentally cause costs to increase? That's utter bulls***, and I'd love for you to actually back up your argument to blow these "guys", both of whom are economics professors at UC Berkley and Geroge Mason (Card and Cowen), out of the water. Once legal, illegals won't be being paid $20/hr, it's unskilled labor for crying out loud. Look you can be in awe of the diplomas on the wall, but I don't care what they say, there are some fundemental at work that here that go past all of the glittering generalities of the arguements. The biggest thing is that wages and costs will rise if these 12 million people are made citizens. Right now by and large illegal immigrants are working at subminimum wage paying jobs, and that is why the rest of the country is getting a benefit from their work. It doesn't to take a rocket scientist to realize that if you are paying someone $3 an hour to pick fruit, who has no leverage to force his employer to pay even minimum wage, let alone conform to OSHA standards, let alone conform to EPA standards, or he risks being deported. Take away those threats, and you now have the all of those factors added in as costs directly to the employer. Going from paying $3, and conforming to no governmental standards is a hell of a lot cheaper than $6 an hour, plus making the safety and enviormental grades. Throw all that together and you just doubled your costs for wages alone, not to mention the other costs. Its also common sense to realize that those costs get passed on to the consumer. They also seem to forget that illegals can only be so much of a burden on governmental programs, because they aren't allowed to participate in so many of them. They can get welfare, medicare, medicade, social security, unemployment, long term disability etc. You don't believe that if they were eligible for those, that they would continue to not use them right? That's what the protests are about. They want government programs, they want fair wages, they want safe workplaces. Its a braindead assumption to use facts and figures for an illegal shadow labor force, as a static comparision for a work force that would suddenly be on an equal footing with the rest of the country. It would be like comparing what your wage potential was at age 14, and at age 21.