2nd_city_saint787

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 02:01 PM) Because he is in to get 3 outs, not 18, and his strikeout rate is increasing. As have his HR/9 rate which is 1.99...And he pitches in a pitcher friendly ballpark. Had to figure sooner or later those FBs catch up with him. If he gave up 1.99 HR/9 here in Chicago people would be bashing the hell out of him.....Esp. those fancy FIP guys. I couldn't imagine how much we'd hear about his 4.44 FIP.

Hey DA, I remember you bringing up Tommy Millones FB% as a reason why you don't think he'd be a good trade for the Sox....Why are you a fan of a guy who ranked 9th among ALL relievers in fly balls last year?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 01:33 PM) Fractured clavicle. Same thing Rodgers had. He was out 2 months. Tough break, but he'll be back. Bears still have Josh Morgan, and I'm intrigued to see is Chris Williams will get some time at WR.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 01:02 PM) Which DH option are they going to pursue? The LH options available are Adam Dunn, Kendrys Morales, Victor Martinez, Carlos Pena, and Pablo Sandoval. Given that landscape, I think they re-up Dunn. Victor Martinez, if he hits the market, should be the top target. You add his bat behind Abreu and add Avi to the mix and you're looking at more than competitive offense. Eaton-Semien-Abreu-VMart-Avi-Connor-Lexi should be enough to where they can throw ADA and Flowers in those 8-9 spots and still be ultra potent. If they can convince Pablo to play some DH, which I really don't see why he wouldn't wanna, he'd be another great addition. Give him 2 games at 3B and 2 at 1B a week if he really desires to play the field a lot. Dunn is a fine plan C.

QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 05:32 AM) This guy probably knows. Roadkill has really aged....You think he has a twitter?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 12:06 PM) Jones was pitching the 8th inning. Reed the 9th. I don't know if you are someone who has been talking about roles being changed and pitching different innings making a difference, but the Sox couldn't find guys who didn't cough it up in the 9th. Maybe Jones is lights out in the 9th, maybe he is a guy who would rather pitch the 7th or 8th. I have been. In a REBUILDING year, which this is, it's worth finding out whether he can handle that role or not.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 11:48 AM) Another point. To those who think Hahn didn't focus on the pen because we were "rebuilding" but he'll fix it next year, because it's easy to fix, doesn't that make out Hahn as a total moron? I mean, if it's easy to fix the pen in a year, then why didn't Hahn do it this year? My opinion is that Hahn tried to fix the pen, but did a very bad job of it, starting with the fact the team had no real closer once it traded Reed. I'm not saying the Reed trade was ill conceived on its own. I would say without a backup plan for a pen without Reed, it was extremely risky, and the risk Hahn took blew up in his face. Hahn did the same thing with the starting rotation, but on that score, he's been much more fortunate. Erik Johnson and Felipe Paulino blew up, but the Sox have gotten by with wire-waiver claim Hector Noesi and 29-year-old rookie Scott Carroll. Plus, John Danks has pitched much better than might have been expected. Nate Jones last year had a 2.64 FIP, Addison Reed had a 3.17. Year before that Jones had a 3.39, Reed had a 3.64. The backup plan got hurt, it's really that simple.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 11:27 AM) What is a positive trait is converting your saves. Lindstrom was 6 for 9 when he went down. That's not a percentage that keeps your team in wild card contention. In 2 of those blown saves he didn't even give up an ER. One of those being one of the oddest decisions by RV has made... (Hate to feed the RV haters but...) 9th inning Maikel Cleto pitching Sox up 1... Jor Danks in right field. D Pedroia walked. D Pedroia stole second. X Bogaerts walked. M Lindstrom relieved M Cleto. D Ortiz flied out to left. J Gomes reached on infield single to third, D Pedroia to third, X Bogaerts to second. G Sizemore hit sacrifice fly to left, D Pedroia scored. X Bogaerts to third, J Gomes to second on wild pitch by M Lindstrom. A Pierzynski grounded out to third.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 10:51 AM) They aren't. We shouldn't be thinking playoffs this year. Realistically, unless Verlanders arm falls off after he runs int Miguel Cabrera, which knocks his legs off, we shouldn't be expecting to win in 2015 either. Anything is possible man. Let me throw it out there, so you can get some perspective on where I'm comin from....I think Avi is going to be a really good baseball player. I'm talking all star caliber. You add that to another FA bat or 2 and IMO this offense would be good enough to compete. You get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Add a quality RHP to Sale and Q and that's a 1-3 that could do some damage in the playoffs.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 10:56 AM) I don't think that's true at all. The profiles of the guys he's brought in have been ground ball pitchers and, if possible, guys with power sinkers or good split finger stuff. Either way, he's been getting away from the flyball pitcher out of the pen. I think there's a parallel universe out there somewhere where this bullpen pitched up to it's potential, but that just wasn't the case here. I mean more from a depth perspective. A team that's expecting to win probably goes a little deeper than this bullpen.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 10:51 AM) If that is what he thought, he thought wrong. An average bullpen, this team, with all it's warts, had a shot. I'm pretty sure he has said it countless times that we're rebuilding and if you expect a team that just came off a 90 loss season not to rebuild for a year or 2 you're crazy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 10:43 AM) That's why, if you think you have a shot at winning, you don't trade Addison Reed for Josh Fields Jr. People had no problem and still don't with the Sox getting rid of him. Yet now the bullpen sucks because Nate Jones and Matt Lindstrom, yes the same Matt Lindstrom some where doing cartwheels about when they found out he was hurt and would no longer be closing, aren't there. If Jones and Lindstrom were both healthy, and really, I don't know how in the world anyone can assume a pitching staff won't suffer numerous injuries, the Sox bullpen will still suck. Hahn knew it in spring training, but it was too late. It's a rebuilding year. Hahn doesn't think he had a shot at winning....

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 09:02 AM) Spending money, just for the sake of spending money, is stupid. That is how you end up with Edwin Jackson on a 100 loss team. You add $5 million relievers when you are close winning, not just cuz. And again, I think this team is indeed close to winning. Fix the bullpen, get Avi back, add a quality starter and a quality LH hitter and I really think they're right there. With their payroll being as ow at is, and the Sox being a "Large market team" I fully expect this teams payroll to be at the very least in the 80M range. To get to the 80M range we're talking about 30M in contracts. I don't see why 5M of that could be used on a guy who is one of the most dominant set up men in the game this year. He's not just a loogy either, RHB are hitting just .174 against him as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 10:04 AM) Why is it bad luck when players don't perform up to their last year's performance? The GMs job is to project. Why isn't Gordon Beckham's BABIP bad luck? Except for a nice stretch after the first couple of weeks, Beli has pretty much been awful. You either get the job done or you don't. Hahn picked the wrong guys. That's simple. I watched them tee off on the White Sox bullpen this weekend. There were a couple of dinks, but for the most part they were hitting ropes all over the place. Belisario had issues, but ask Dodger fans about him and you won't get many positives out of his performance. People can't wait to dump Danks' contract, yet look at Downs, Beli, Keppinger, Paulino, add up all that money and it's pretty close to what the are paying Danks or even Dunn and at least those guys contribute something. Oh c'mon DA, I expect more from you. How can you project them being this bad? Belly just simply doesn't belong in high leverage situations, and if injuries never happened he probably never sees those situations. Lindstrom was gonna be that RH set up guy, and based on how well he pitched last year and in the minors Daniel Webb probably was looked at ahead of Belly in those situations.....I still remember one of them fancy fangraphs articles that called Webb a future closer. We're also talking about a bullpen that was built for a rebuilding team. Like everyone continues to say on here it's the last thing you build. If Hahn looked into that crystal ball everyone expects him to have and saw that this team was a bullpen away from being in serious contention for a WC and possibly even an outside shot at the division I'm sure we'd be looking at a different pen right now....

Any ideas what the hell this thing is? My girl found it in her attic

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 11:38 PM) The career stats back up my belief that our bullpen sucks because of Robin's complete ignorance in using it and lack of defining roles for anyone. He's ccmpletely destroyed the morale and confidence of all our relievers and it would make no difference who was in our pen. With as many things as he's done to damage this team and ruin our playoff chances, I don't see how we can continue to keep him in the position. The time has come for the organization to make a change and there's no need to wait even one day more. Fire Robin now! Lol stop it. The problem IS the fact that the defined roles you speak of have gotten blown up because of injury. Nate Jones, according to Hahn himself, was going to be the closer this year. He got hurt. So now all those defined roles got changed. Matt Lingstrom, who is a quality SU man was forced into the closers role. Then he got injured and once again those defined roles changed again. Belisario was put into the defined closer role and he fell flatt on his face so again, roles were forced to change. Saying he "completely destroyed the confidence of these grown ass men is ridiculous. QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 12:09 AM) Yes it is his fault, completely. You don't trade a suitable reliever in Reed when you have NOTHING left over. It's like he wanted to lose 99 games again. This bullpen on paper was pathetic. I don't see why GM's get a free pass. OK. He projected Nate to be the answer. And Lindstrom and Downs were supposed to be good. And Bella serviceable. Nate is hurt which isn't the GM's fault, but I'm not convinced Nate is to be great anyway. Lindstrom was OK til he got hurt (though I didn't like him much) and Downs was miserable. Bella is horrific. I need not mention all of the horrific pieces of this bullpen. This is on the GM. The team like you said would be contending with a decent bullpen. I can't forgive him for trading a closer for some guy sucking in AAA. Very very bad job by Hahn and is a negative on his resume. Yes, he's made some great moves as well. But this is inexcusable and on him. There are bad bullpens, but this one is worthy of last place which is still where the Sox could wind up. Team has avoided the collapse so far. Do we have the usual 10-game September road trip coming up where a 1-9 is possible again? Again this is ridiculous. Did you read my post where I pointed out that Belly and Downs have actually been fairly good the last 2 years? Nate Jones, whether you like it or not is a very good bullpen arm and is every bit as good as Addison Reed. Matt Lindstrom has been a well above average set up man for years now. Petricka and Webb came up last year and really solidified a spot in the pen as well. That's 6 guys on paper that should have been better than average pieces for this bullpen. Esp. when you consider this is a rebuilding year that bullpen going into this year should have been more than serviceable and Hahn appeared to have done a good job.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 10:33 PM) BTW, I only see the box score. Why was Q pulled after 5 innings? He was up around 110 pitches.

Since you're using ERA here... Last 2 years... Belly-3.97/2.54 Downs- 2.49/3.15 For those fancy gentlemen here FIP Belly-3.64/3.09 Downs-3.09/3.66 If those guys pitch up to those results and Jones/Lindstrom stay healthy we aren't even having this convo. s*** happens though. Jones went down which messed up all the roles, then Lindstrom went down and even further f***ed up everyones roles. The intentions were good. The results were bad.

I've made my opinion known numerous times on here....No....Dude doesn't have a crystal ball.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 10:15 PM) Hahn's bullpen is perilously close to being a fireable offense. I mean ... my gawd. Embarrassing. The Twinks hitting 3 homers in a row and one ball into the Ozone?? It truly is embarrassing. Arcia could have killed somebody had he hit a liner instead of hitting the ball to Gary, Indiana. Take a look at what Belly and Downs did in previous years. The thought was there. Dude doesn't have a crystal ball. Those 2 guys pitch like they did in the past and Jones and Lindstrom stay healthy and this pen is fine. Saying it's a fireable offense is well, offensive.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 10:17 PM) The Sox have teased us diehards. This series was jinxed from the start when somebody posted how easy a homestand this is. It doesn't matter who the Sox play ... it matters how the Sox play. Ridiculous to think it would be a easy homestand. Psh, I think you jinxed it by saying otherwise lol.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 09:22 PM) Let me start this by saying I'm not a huge NBA fan or a Bulls fan, but one of the best teams in any four year span (Miami) just broke apart. Indiana lost their best player to a gruesome knee injury and is out for 2014-2015 (maybe longer), and the Bulls aren't going to make a play for Kevin Love? Obviously, they could be under the radar but every analyst has Love going to Cleveland. Shouldn't the Bulls make a better attempt for Love? If Cleveland gets Love, they pretty much become the new Miami, but the Bulls could become the new Miami, too. Ok, rip me to pieces. If the TWolves view Wiggins as a future superstar there's really nothing the Bulls can do. The supposed Mirotic/McDermott/Taj offer is a HUGE offer and they can't any better than that.

Wonder if they get reallly aggresive and call up Jarrett Casey who has been fantastic at 3 different levels so far. Only 7 innings in AAA though. On the year he has a 1.59 ERA with a BAA of .189. Only 2 HRs given up in 56 innings....Kind of a nobody his previous 4 years.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 08:38 PM) Do I have a simple fix? No. But Andrew Miller is gonna get a hefty contract, and bullpen guys can be so fickle, I hate to spend that much salary on a guy. Scott Downs was one of the most reliable lefty relievers in all of baseball the last 10 years, so the Sox gave him $4 million and now he's in Kansas City. I bet you can find a guy for less than half the price that will be just as reliable. One thing Miller has going for him is he's 9 years younger than Downs so there's a bit of a difference there. Ay some point you gotta take advantage of the fact that the Sox currently have 3 guys, Sale, Q, and Abreu who are big time steals for 3 more years. Signing Miller is not gonna break the bank.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 08:09 PM) This x 100. I will not be happy if they pay up for Andrew Miller. How do you suggest fixing the bullpen? Taking another chance on guys like Belly and Downs?