Pants Rowland

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) Rosenbloom's article today is one of the most direct shots across the bow against the White Sox (not cheap shots from Cowley) that you're likely to ever see. And every Sox fan can't find a single word to disagree with, for a change. That was spot on. I thought he should have been pulled in the middle of the inning for that play. No one knows what is going through a man's head and Guillen alludes that Rios is taking every at bat to the field with him, but whether it is because he doesn't care or cares WAY too much, the response should probably be the same, bench him. Pull him aside after the game in private and let him know how much you care about him but that his mind is not in the right place, it is hurting the team in many ways beyond just his poor performance, and he is going to get some time extended time off. Put in De Aza and see how good of a teammate Rios can be from the bench.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:25 PM) Manny and Thome were RBI machines. Alomar and Omar....Lofton....It was men against boys. ^^^This. That team was built around a juggernaut offense to go with average starters and, if I recall correctly, an above average bullpen.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 07:47 PM) I think it is more about having a real, intimate respect for the difficulty of building a brand new core from the ground up. Kenny was a farm director here who oversaw a ton of highly-rated busts, and he saw that 2000 team that was supposed to be the start of a new era fade in Bolivian. Furthermore, this is the AL Central. If you run the ship aground totally then you can easily end up like the Royals or the Tigers of '05 and prior, but if you try to keep a solid team together and just swap some pieces out here and there, you can reasonably expect to contend the following season. Also, keeping good vets around keeps the record better and keeps us from constantly having to bring up talented prospects in a losing environment. Furthermore, guys like Paulie, MB, and AJ are terrific mentors who always strive to set the best examples and standards both on and off the field. Compare this to the Royals, for one. Love the Mike Tyson reference.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 09:52 AM) You really don't remember 1997 then because it destroyed that team and the public perception for years. I remember 1997 and agree that the team suffered for years in the aftermath of the trade. In my opinion, however, the strike and the subsequent total lack of attendance were the main culprits for the White Sox demise. The trade was just another symptom of the core problem that everyone hated JR for ruining the Sox's best chance at a title in our lifetimes. The Sox were arguably the best team and organization in the league in 1994 and it all went in the s***ter once the strike ended. The players were not prepared for the 1995 season, Cleveland buried them in embarrassing fashion the next two seasons and the fans had no reason to come back, even if they wanted to do so. The trade just gave the press a great opportunity to make headlines with all the "White Flag" commentary. I thought the rebuilding idea was still a good one. The top prospects had not panned out and Cleveland, no matter the record, was a far more talented team and deeper organization. I did not necessarily love the return package they got from the Giants, but Foulke and Howry did turn out to be good performers and they were able to take the division and become relevant again for the next decade.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 10:47 PM) Junior? I'd rather be a "junior" than a crotchety old man. The White Flag trade was not a dark day in White Sox history. It ended up helping in 2000, as you said. People defending it by saying how great Cleveland was that year are just wrong though. They went 86-75. The Sox standings position in late July of 1997 (record and games back) was basically identical to what it is now as well. The fact of the matter is, no matter how much you may not like it, trading away players for kids when only a few games out of first is going to piss most people off. And, it's a sign of throwing in the towel when in the race. You're not winning that battle. It didn't really help establish anything, either. The Sox had a great season in 2000, but were promptly swept and missed the playoffs the four years after that, as everybody knows. I like being a crotchety old man. ;-) I am not concerned with Cleveland's record as much as how lousy the Sox looked. I also recall Cleveland was the class of the division talent-wise and were pretty much toying with the Sox. Fact is they won the pennant and came close to winning it all. Record be damned, that was a better team and no matter how close the Sox could have gotten, the odds of them actually overtaking the tribe that year was remote at best. Yes, the Sox mismanaged a lot of their opportunities after that, but it could have been way worse than '98 and '99 if they hadn't made the trade.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) I agree. Or one of them and Quentin for minor league players. What has been done so far clearly isn't White Flag. I just contest that the circumstances right now that the team's in are similar to what they were in 1997. And for someone to say 1997 wasn't a White Flag trade is laughable, not even worth a discussion. Look junior, take a minute and reread what I said. I never said it wasn't a surrender nor did I say that large scale trading off of talent now wouldn't be a concession. What I basically said was I hate that specific reference to the trade with the Giants in 1997 and wish people would stop bringing it up. Revisionist historians who capitalize the W and the F in white flag, referencing 7/31/97 as a specific dark day in time clearly don't remember how mediocre the '97 team was. We can all debate the quality of return on Hernandez, Alvarez, and Darwin, but only Hernandez had much of a career after 1997. It was b.s. the way the media and fans jumped all over JR and the Sox for making that trade. It needed to be done and actually helped put the Sox on track to re-establish themselves in the division three seasons later.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:38 PM) Umm, no. The trade in 1997 was a white flag trade. They were 3 out of first when it happened, and in very similar position to where this years team is. If a few major parts are traded away before the deadline, it will be white flag II. I know what the scenario was and I do not disagree that the Sox effectively conceded the division. My point is JR was correct. Three games out or not, the Sox were not going to catch Cleveland that year. I take exception to the sensationalizing of the trade that year. The whole "White Flag" b.s. was belabored for years and people still bring it up now. I think it had far more to do with JR's hawkish stance during the '94 strike and the Sox' rotten performance once the strike ended. Everyone hated Jerry, the fans had not come back to the park yet, and the team was facing some really down years with a lot of core contracts expiring at the end of that season. It was a great opportunity for the fans and media to ridicule JR and the Sox and they pretty much continued to do so even past the 2000 division title. QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:38 PM) You could not be more correct and it just proves how little the media actually know about sports. This year would be a white flag but all of the teams suck That is probably the only reason I say a fire sale this year would be a disappointing concession. There really is no team like the '97 Indians that wis obviously going to wake up and squash the opposition. On the other hand, with the division this bad, maybe all the more reason to gamble on getting some young talent that still has a chance to take the division this year and be set up in future years. QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:39 PM) The Sox were literally in almost in the identical place in the standings and recordwise then as they are now. Yet, it'd be a white flag trade now but not then? I won't disagree with you here but I think most agree that the central division winner is likely a three and out team in the ALDS. Anything can happen, but the 2006 Cardinals are by far the exception. I prefer to unload some of the declining pricier players and try to infuse a little youth and energy.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:34 PM) Maybe this win saved us from White Flag II. Or, at least, put it on temporary hold. It'll be an interesting 50 hours before we play next, and just as interesting until the trade deadline. This was a must win series. Any chance we can all agree not to use the term White Flag on this site ever again? The Indians were a far better team and franchise in 1997 and were just waiting to make a move in the division. They won the pennant and ended up just short of their first title since 1954. The concept of the White Flag was a fabrication for headlines more than anything else. The only mistake was JR publicly stating the Sox weren't going to catch Cleveland, even though he was correct. The White Sox were a middling team that year and going nowhere. Kind of like this year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2011 -> 01:06 PM) We haven't done one of these in a while... I'll start it off, and then whoever gets it right get to answer the next question... According to baseballreference.com who has the most trades with the White Sox during their franchise history? If you don't know, or just want to cheat, click the link. http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/tra...franch_ID_2=ALL No idea but I will lob a guess of Cleveland. Seem to recall a handful in my lifetime and the Bernazard for Cruz deal was one of my favorites.

QUOTE (typewritermender @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) Hey guys, I'm in town for a while & going to the game tomorrow. Staying in Lincoln Square, meeting a friend downtown during the day & then the 2 of us are going to the game. I'm trying to figure out the best transportation option. I have a car, but don't want to have to park it downtown AND at the Cell...that would end up costing a LOT. After the game I'm driving up to the NW suburbs, so would prefer not to have to take the El all the way back to Lincoln Square before getting in my car and driving up north some more... Does anybody know what the deal is with Bacardi at the Park? I'm pretty sure parking opens 2 hrs before game time, but do they let you park early if you're going to the restaurant? I'm wondering if I could drive down to the stadium during the day, leave my car, take the El downtown to meet my friend, return to the park on the El for the game, then grab my car and drive into the 'burbs after the game ends. Super complicated, right? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Two ideas: 1. Park at Schaller's Pump on Halsted a few blocks south of 35th Street. It is a little bit if a walk to and from the game, but they let people park there for free. You can grab a bus up Halsted to get back toward downtown, or walk a few blocks east/north to take the red line downtown and then take it back later to the game. 2. Drive to Chinatown and park at the lot near the Red Line stop at Cermak/22nd Street. You can take the red line back into the loop and then hop on it back to Sox park later. It is a one stop ride back to your car after the game. Fairly certain Chinatown parking will be a lot cheaper (if not free) than near the Sox park. Otherwise, if you are heading back to the NW suburbs, why not just take the brown line from Lincoln Square and connect to the Red Line at Belmont? I am not sure you are saving yourself a great deal of time in the long run by sitting in daytime traffic just so you avoid 15 extra minutes or so of train time later in the evening.

Man, you guys are brutal. Hi8is is one eccentric dude but he started a topic to announce how happy he is that he is about to tie the knot. Let's wish him well. Congratulations and good luck to you sir! A long and happy life to you and your bride.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 1, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) Suck on that Joyce DeWitt!** **Janet from Three's Company No need for the footnote. I LOLed immediately at the reference. Stanley Roper was my favorite but Ralph Furley could also hold his own.

Soxtalk Ranger and Score Ranger have a lot of similarities. I am not going to go so far as leveling a personal attack. However, he does have a tendency to very politely and eloquently let you know you are an ignorant dumbass. He won't come right out and call you a drillrod like Dave Wills would, but the participant in the discussion will feel no better at the end of it. This site is no better or worse off with/without Ranger's celebrity "inside" opinion. So, please let's not get alarmed at the prospect of him going away.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) Am I the only one who thinks Omar looks a little like ARod in this photo? No. Much smaller bust size.

I would sooner move one of the group to the bullpen versus making a trade this early in the season. E-JAx would be a great arm to have coming out in late innings.

QUOTE (CarlosMartinez @ May 13, 2011 -> 11:39 PM) It seemed like Hawk was a different guy calling the game with Wimpy tonight. I am a big fan of Stoney but hearing Hawk and Wimpy together tonight felt so right. I'm really going to enjoy the next 2 games. Hopefully the team helps the cause with 2 more wins. This^^ Hawk and Wimpy were a great tandem. It has been a long time since I enjoyed listening to the commentators of a Sox game. Stone is a brilliant baseball man, but I think Hawk and Stone both have high ego personalities that need to be paired with a guy like Wimpy who is relaxed and easygoing but confident enough in his own being not to get pushed around or get hazed. I loved listening to the old pair last night.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) Sample Size....Lisa Needs Braces....Sample Size....Lisa Needs Braces Awesome. I still might take the keg of beer, though.

Who's with me?!! Let's do it!!!!!!!

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Apr 16, 2011 -> 09:53 AM) I don't know about that. No matter recent struggles, my vote goes to Borchard for Thornton. McCarthy fo Danks is not a bad bet, either.

Okay, maybe I wasn't joking. Tonight really sucked and I am not sure Thornton is the long term answer for a closer. I like the suggestion of trying Santos there quite a bit, though. Losses like this are supposed to happen in Minnesota or Oakland, not at home. Ugh!

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 07:03 PM) I really like how many people are still taking it quite seriously when the cat is already out of the bag. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 07:34 PM) He was being sarcastic? Then he still fails. Don't jam up the board with worthless threads. That s*** annoys the hell out of me. Could've gone right to the White Sox winner thread and padded his post-count if it was that important to him. I couldn't care less about post counts and I really question whether this board is any more jammed up with worthless threads now that this one has hit its second page. Also funny that you seemed to initially get it but now get annoyed over something so harmless. It would have been shuffled well down the thread queue if people didn't really act like this around here. This place has been over the top with overreaction through the offseason and a week or so into the season as well. Maybe you shouldn't post in it again to make sure it goes away as quickly as possible and doesn't annoy you any more.

Awesome, and winner!

Pena looked great today and the defense really seemed to respond with him on the mound. With Thornton's struggles and Pena's lights out performance today, should he be the new closer? Discuss.

I can't stop watching this. Absolutely brilliant.

Thanks for the good sentiments in starting this thread, Tex. I have gathered that some of my favorite posters are up there in years and have a great perspective on the game. This afternoon I was talking to a friend who is originally from Italy and the Cubs "curse" came up. I had not even read this thread yet, but basically said the same thing about the amount of world series wins by the Yankees, Cardinals, Red Sox, A's, Dodgers, and one or two others. Everyone else has struggled to stay relevant over the years. It is a tough game and one that will eat you up if you let it. In 2006 I decided I would turn off a game if I started getting angry. It has made me enjoy baseball a lot better. My son said to me the other day "we don't like the Cubs, right?" I responded, "If you like baseball, watch baseball. If not, don't watch it, but the worst thing you can do is waste your time cheering against another team. Just enjoy the game." I don't care how anyone wants to experience the Sox or baseball here, but it seems we would all be a lot better off just appreciating the beauty of being able to watch baseball just about every day for 6 months out of the year.