Lillian

Hahn has stated that the Sox are targeting a left handed, middle of the order bat. If they do not sign V. Martinez, or any other free agent this off season, whom would they target for 2016? The only one who might be available is Chris Davis. There certainly is no one within the organization, who might fill that void. Is there someone I'm missing?

Thanks for the reassurances. Why would they even bother wasting a roster spot?

I sure hope that you guys are right. I know it' early, and it's just a gut feeling. As I posted a couple of days ago, Shuck doesn't look like a very good player. The moment the Sox acquire someone better to play the outfield, I'll be relieved.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) If so no need to pursue Aoki. Not sure how much I like it, but I'm beginning to think that they acquired Shuck to be the regular left fielder. Maybe they intend to platoon him with Danks. Oddly enough, Shuck seems to hit lefties better, even though he's a left handed hitter Danks has been pretty decent vs. RHP, and is still considered the best defensive outfielder in the organization. If that's the plan, I wish they would move Avi to LF, when Danks starts, as he is unquestionably a better defender.

For those of you who advocate not spending big now, but rather continuing to rebuild, with an eye toward 2016, exactly what would you do? Who would you try to acquire now? Who would you target for 2016?

If the Sox are going to compete, they must have one really potent, middle of the order, left handed bat. Hitting RH pitching is always of greater value than hitting lefties, simply because there are so many more of them. In the American League, and particularly in the Central Division, the Sox will arguably have most of the best lefties in Sale, Quintana and an emerging Rodon. It makes little sense to have a lineup full of right handed hitters, with most of the good southpaws in the League, on your staff. Whether or not you agree is less important than the fact that R. Hahn has openly stated this need for a potent left handed bat. There is simply no better option available to fill that need than Victor Martinez. The arguments have already been eloquently made for signing him, including the payroll flexibility and draft protection that makes his acquisition feasible. One of the arguments against signing him has been the need to fill other holes, and the inability of the Sox to contend without first doing so. I agree in principle with the position that it only makes sense to acquire V Mart, if the Sox can contend. In fact, Martinez himself has indicated that he only wants to play for a contender. The issue for me is whether or not the front office can fill the other holes this season. Many of you have expressed concerns about needing another outfielder. Filling that hole may not be that difficult. The Sox would not need a big offensive threat at that position. With Abreu and Martinez as the 3 and 4 hitters, Eaton leading off, the on base ability of C. Gillaspie, the solid offensive contributions of A. Garcia and Alexei, they could get by with a good defensive right fielder, with a good arm and decent on base skills. That would enable them to move Garcia to LF, where his raw defensive skills would not be a liability. Remember, Avi does at least possess good speed and a strong arm. It appears that Hahn has had interest in Aoki for that role. I first thought that Shuck might be that kind of guy, but the more I read about him the less convinced I am. Aoki is intriguing because he profiles as a good 2 hole hitter as well. The problem is that he is not very good vs RH pitching. However, someone like him, with reverse splits, would be adequate, and not that expensive, or hard to find. You would think that a team like Seattle, seeking a right handed power bat, might be willing to trade a good defensive right fielder, for Viciedo. I don't think that it matters from which side of the plate that outfielder bats. With Martinez in the middle of the lineup, the need for the left handed hitter would be filled. Someone suggested Saunders, and that would be fine, if Seattle were willing to make that trade. Then there is always the international pool of talent. Again, the Sox do not need a big bat in the outfield. The bullpen is a big concern, but with the additions of Bassitt, one good left hander, Montas and Cleto the pen could well become an asset, rather than the liability it was in 2014. After all, while they lost Lindstrom and Jones, the Sox did witness the emergence of Putnam and Petricka as solid set up guys. J. Guerra also looks like he's back, and can be counted upon. Of course, they will have to find a closer, but they do have candidates, including the aforementioned Montas and Cleto. That brings up another issue. The Sox record was much worse than the teams overall effort, due to all of the games which the bullpen blew. How many times did Sale and Quintana give the Sox a great chance to win, only to see the pen implode? Fix the pen, and the won/loss column would look dramatically different. So, in summary: Sign V. Martinez? Find a good defensive R.F. with the ability to get on base and provide a little speed. Sign a #3 RH Starter Sign one good LH reliever That should be within the budget of the front office, and could very well put a contender on the field this coming season. Providing management could accomplish those other goals, I'd vote to try to sign Martinez. For me the question is; Would V Mart consider signing with the Sox, not should they offer him a lucrative contract. So, what would I offer him, if it were my decision (not necessarily my money)? I'd offer him what I speculated it would take to sign him; 4 years and $70 Million.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 07:41 PM) If that is what it is, then I think the Sox should pass. I think he will be cheaper than that. We'll see. I just think that is what it will take to get him to leave Detroit. These free agent signings usually cost more than expected.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 04:20 PM) MLB Network Radio @MLBNetworkRadio · 8m 8 minutes ago .@Tigers OF JD Martinez tells "Inside Pitch" he's talked to Victor Martinez, VMart says he wants to come back to DET if their offer is close If he sincerely wants to return to the Tigers, they may sign him for the 4 years, $60 Million, that the N. Y. Post predicts. However if he signs elsewhere, I will be surprised if it is less than 4 years, $70 Million. I would guess $20 Million for each of the first two years, and $15 Million, for each of the last two years.

For those speculating about what it will take to sign V. Martinez, it might be interesting to note what some of the other great hitters are going to be getting paid in their late 30's, and beyond: Age 36 -39 Albert Pujols 25M, 26M, 27M, 28M, Plus 29M at 40, 30M at 41 Robinson Cano 24M each year, plus 24M at 40 Miguel Cabrera 30M, 30M, 30M, 32M, plus 32M at 40 with vesting options for 32M for two more years if top 10 MVP Given that Victor is the only really great left handed hitter in this year's free agent market, I would guess that it will take at least $20 million, per year for the first 3 years, with something close to that for the 4TH. I know that he is pretty much strictly a DH, but he is a switch hitter, and last year helps him make the case that he is aging well. Please don't assume that any of this suggests that I'm advocating signing him to that kind of contract. I'm simply speculating about what it might take.

He looked like he might profile as an Adam Eaton type, when I first started looking into his career. You know, high pitch count, good OBP, good speed and defense. Then I read this: http://monkeywithahalo.com/2013-articles/j...hink-he-is.html That wasn't very reassuring, at all.

You're all going to love this: Why not consider Grady "you know who" for LF? He would be cheap, and probably settle for a one year contract, in order to have another chance to prove he can still play. If you take into account the 3 years away from baseball, he actually started to produce pretty well, when he got regular playing time, in the second half. In 121 at bats in July and August, he hit .305 with a .354 OBP and a .463 slugging %. He only got one plate appearance per game in half of the 20 games, in which he played in September. That limited playing time couldn't have helped him much, in trying to regain his form. All in all, his first season back, after such a long absence from the game, was somewhat encouraging. I think he'd be a reasonable gamble, on a one year deal. If they signed that big LH bat to DH, the Sox could get by inexpensively with Sizemore on a one year deal, to fill the other outfield spot. That would leave the rest of the money to obtain a RH starter and bullpen help. Don't discount the motivational factor. This is a guy with something to prove, and he would be playing for a contract. The way he trained to get back on the field demonstrates his desire and determination. Those qualities just might get him back to being a productive player. What the hell? It would just be a one year deal. I love stories like this. It's refreshing in this age of prima donna, exorbitantly paid athletes.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 03:00 PM) Nori actually has some reverse splits working for him, he's actually been a beast against LHP. He could use a platoon partner vs RHP. The problem is that all of the good left handed starters in the League are on the White Sox. No wonder he put up such huge numbers against us. He is the kind of offensive player, for whom I would personally settle, if he played great defense in RF, and his offensive splits were better vs. RHP. However, settling for a player who fit that description would be contingent upon getting the big LH bat to DH.

One of the intangible benefits of signing Victor, is that it breaks up the Tigers' potent middle of the order. There isn't another left handed hitter whom Detroit could acquire to replace him. Meanwhile, of course the Sox would then have arguably the best 3, 4 hitters in the League. I suggested earlier that the Sox could acquire a good defensive left fielder, with speed, to fill that hole. It makes even better sense to get a RF who profiles like that, and move A. Garcia to LF. Tank could be traded for something like a bull pen arm.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) I would be very happy with getting him.. Go protection for Abreu. I don't think he will be horribly worse with age. Can't imagine him hitting less then .270 throughout a 3 year contract. I would expect a few more home runs playing at US Cellular. Eaton Ramirez Abreu Martinez Garcia Gillaspie LF Flowers/C Semien/Sanchez/Johnson Could be a good line up depending on who we get for the extra OF spot. With that line up, they could settle for a good defensive left fielder with speed and a decent OBP. They wouldn't need any big power production. I would also suggest a platoon of Semien and Gillaspie, as many have advocated.

I started to look at some of the players, who reached career highs in several offensive categories, at age 35 or older. Several of them were guys in the Steroid era. Bonds, McGuire, and Manny Ramirez all took PEDS. Of the others, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron and Stan Musial stand out as Modern Era players (I'm old enough to consider the end of the "Dead Ball Era" as the beginning of the "Modern Era") who went on to have good years, very late in their careers. None of those players had the luxury of filling the role of DH. Maybe Martinez is in that mold, although it's easy to understand a reluctance to bet on it. One thing that really stands out to me is that he only struck out 42 times in 641 plate appearances!! With his terrific slugging percentage, that is truly remarkable. The guy is an extraordinary hitter. He might be one of the top 2 or 3 professional hitters in the game today, and just may be that rare exception to the rule. If the Sox are ready to do whatever else they need to do to build a solid contender, then a gamble that V Mart will be productive for the next 3 years, is reasonable. Frankly, if he performed at age 36, 37 and 38, I wouldn't think the 4th year would be that great of a detriment. Hell, write off the last year of a 4 year contract. It would be worth it, if the Sox could contend for the next 3.

The following article provides some interesting perspective on just how remarkable his season was, at his age: http://eyeontigers.blogspot.com/2014/11/ju...n+the+Tigers%29 A more interesting question would be; how did those other players perform at ages 36, 37, 38 and 39? That would be worth doing the research. Unless Martinez has discovered some way to beat the aging process (without PEDS), it doesn't seem reasonable to count on him to fair any better than the list of impressive Hall of Famers, who have accomplished a similarly impressive year, late in their careers.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 10:23 AM) who are cletus and alvarez? are we seriously considering Rondon and a former speed skater to be in the plans any time before 2017/18? that would be a mistake....Anderson's going to get there first, anyway i'm also not sure that semien or sanchez should be counting on anything coming into next spring training...the White Sox better have a more appealing option for LF than Semien IMO, at least if they want to encourage the casual fans they're serious about competing Sorry, I meant Cleto. If he can harness his control, he has a chance to help in the pen. The reason I mentioned both Rondon and Alvarez is because they are part of the organization's middle infield depth.

The Sox do not have a single player of importance, who is near the end of his prime. Unless they sign Martinez, or make some other significant acquisition, they will likely not be ready to compete in 2015. For the following reasons, perhaps 2016 should be the targeted year to make a run: 1) There are several important pieces that have yet to prove whether they can be counted upon to be significant contributors. I’d be willing to wait a year to find out what they have in Rodon, A. Garcia, Bassitt, Montas, Cleto and at least two of the following group: Semien, Sanchez, Saladino and Michah Johnson. I’d also still like a better look at Wilkins. I was disappointed that the front office couldn’t move Dunn any sooner, so that Wilkins could have had more than 43 at bats, which hardly is sufficient to determine anything. 2) They are drafting high again this June, and could conceivably acquire another piece, who could contribute in 2016 3) This years free agent crop does not look all that enticing. 4) Next years free agents (assuming they don’t get extended) include names like Jason Heyward, Justin Upton, Chris Davis, Alex Gordon, and Cespedes. Those names would be better fits than Victor Martinez, going forward, for a young team that wants to contend for a few years. Therefore, I would Trade Alexei, perhaps for a LH power hitting prospect, who is near ready. At 33, and with his contract, he could be a key to a couple of contenders in 2015. Which teams would have the greatest interest, and do any of them have a near ready LH power bat, who can play a position that fits the Sox (OF, DH, C, 3B)? Trading Alexei makes sense, if the Sox won’t be ready til ‘16. He would likely be slowing down enough by then, that his defense may no longer be elite. The organization has all of those middle infielders, at least a couple of whom should be ready to take over by '16, and who would benefit by one years experience, at the Major League level. Trading Alexei would help provide an opportunity to sort out the log jam in the infield. Saladino, Anderson and eventually Rondon could all become Major League Short Stops. If the Sox can build a solid offense, they may be able to settle for little, to no offensive production at SS, in order to put the best defense on the field. Rondon is the candidate for that scenario. There are several candidates for 2B including Sanchez, Semien, Johnson and Alvarez. If the Sox acquire V. Martinez, then Alexei could anchor the middle infield defense, for a Post Season run next season. However, if they decide to wait one more year, doesn't a trade of Ramirez make sense?

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 05:59 PM) Markakis is basically a maybe slightly more reliable De Aza for way more money. See, for example (assuming it happens), the Orioles letting Markakis walk, plugging in De Aza for lots of million dollars a year less. OPS over the last 2 years Markakis .707 De Aza .716 Don't know where he's getting this "gold glove caliber" reputation. Fangraphs has him with negative defensive ratings in each of the last 6 years. UZR does in all of those other than 2014 (fluke?). He's got a better arm than De Aza, probably makes fewer boneheaded plays, and has notably less range. In any of the next 4 years he's a decent bet to be a less valuable player than De Aza. Would it make much sense that the plan was to trade away De Aza making $4.2 million a year in order to sign a similarly valuable player in his 30s to a multi-year deal worth (my guesstimate) more than $10 million a year? This is a very astute observation, and practically irrefutable. They have been very similar offensive players, the last 3 years. Although, Markakis has been a little better vs. LHP. Defensively, de Aza has better speed, but Markakis has the better arm. That's why de Aza has been in LF, and Markakis in RF. I think the thing that made so many of us dislike Alejandro was his poor baseball acumen, particularly on the bases. To spend the additional amount of money that Markakis would require, to effectively replace de Aza would be very difficult to justify. The only way that would make any sense is, if the two minor league pitchers, whom the Sox acquired in the deal with Baltimore were really good prospects. However, that doesn't appear to be the case. I'd guess that the front office is looking for a more significant upgrade than Markakis. That player should either be a left handed hitting power hitter, or an exceptional defensive player with speed and a decent average, which would be feasible if they find that left handed power bat to DH.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 07:53 AM) They would lose their 2nd and 3rd round picks and the slot amount for those picks. Let's pretend that the Sox bonus pool is something like $6.5 million total. 1st round pick: 3.2 Million 2nd Round pick: $1.1 million 3rd Round pick: $750,000 (Those numbers are completely hypothetical). Not only would the Sox lose the 2nd and 3rd rd picks, instead of a $6.5 million draft pool, they'd have a tad over $4.5 million to spend total. Does this make sense? Yes, that explains it Thanks

I understand that our #8 Draft pick is protected. However, please explain exactly what the Sox would lose, if they signed Melky Cabrera and Victor Martinez, aside from a ton of money.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 02:10 PM) obsessed, you are, with people of lefthandedness. You arent Ned Flanders, by chance? You're funny. No, I'm not obsessed with "lefthandedness". I'm simply pointing out that Sanchez is hitting over 100 points higher as a left handed batter. Does that not suggest to you that he might not be the switch hitter, he apparently aspires to be? If it were me, and I were hitting .325 from the left side, and only .222 from the right side, I might be inclined to see if I could do a little better vs. lefties, by just staying on the left side of the plate. I have no idea how he has done in his brief career, prior to this season, but that is a pretty dramatic split, wouldn't you say?

Take a look at C. Sanchez' split stats. He has been terrific batting left handed, vs. RHP: AVG .325 OBP .381 SLG .444 Do you think maybe he should try giving up switch hitting? He's hitting more than 100 points higher, when batting left handed. I personally favor Beckham's successor to be the one who provides outstanding defense, with decent offense. Sanchez has the defensive skills, and so far, has demonstrated pretty good offense, especially for his age.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 12:35 PM) This clearly explains why Abreu has had such a good year with guys like Gillaspie and Dunn hitting behind him (who, BTW, have both played fairly well this year and represented enough of a "threat" so as to force opposing pitchers to throw to Abreu). I just found an article which makes your argument: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...without-fielder I'm going to study it, because I'm afraid that I am one of those ignorant, missinformed fans, who still believes in the validity of the "line up protection" concept. Perhaps you're right, and this article may convince me. My mind is open. Regarding Abreu's success, in spite of the lack of protection. I think that we are already beginning to see opposing teams pitch around him. I posted some conjecture on that point, before the season started. I speculated that Abreu would probably start out very well, but once he had proven himself to be a real threat, that teams would start pitching around him. However, if the article which agrees with your position, is right, it shouldn't matter. We'll see.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 11:31 AM) This is what Miguel Cabrera has seen behind him the last 3 years: 2012: .313/.412/.528/.940, 152 wRC+ 2013: .279/.362/.457/.819, 124 wRC+ 2014: .321/.386/.556/.942, 152 wRC+ Here's how Miguel Cabrera has performed: 2012: .330/.393/.606/.999, 165 wRC+ 2013: .348/.442/.636/1.078, 191 wRC+ 2014: .304/.364/.508/.872, 137 wRC+ In this particular sample, the theory is immediately debunked. If Jose Abreu is a good hitter, he will hit well. It won't matter a heck of a lot who hits in front of behind him. If it did, you'd have to imagine it would affect the others directly in front of or behind him as well, and nobody has hit particularly well out of the 2 hole this year. I'm sorry, but I don't follow your logic. How do those stats "debunk" the "theory"? Is there really any doubt that it's important to have a solid threat batting behind the kind of dominant hitter that both Cabrera and Abreu represent? Entering a series, an opposing team would otherwise simply make the conscious decision not to let that particular hitter beat them. He would subsequently be pitched around the entire series. He would not likely be able to produce much, aside from the walks.