Dick Allen

I think Jim Kaat said last night he had 10 postseason series where he hit over .400. If Derek Jeter was a White Sox and received the same attention, the haters here would have a different spin on his career.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) Again just to point out...these sort of things were said about Paul Konerko, especially when he had that ridiculous first half of his 2012 season. He then had one small injury that built and fell off a cliff. You literally would never have seen it coming. We didn't and we wound up paying a big salary last year to a guy who was really, really bad. We found out this week White Sox doctors didn't expect Paulie's hip to hold up through the 2010 season, and Mark Gonzalez in his tribute said he was playing with a bad hip and bad back., and he has been off the Sox beat for a couple of seasons. So it really wasn't one small injury that did him in. It is part of aging, but not everyone ages like Konerko. We didn't see it coming because it was kept quiet. Now if Victor has some sort of condition that no one knows about, I agree, don't sign him. But he blew a knee and missed his age 33 season. The age guys would probably have said the end is near or at least a steady decline, and were probably patting themselves on the back the first part of last year for being so smart, but it turns out they were really wrong.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 12:33 PM) I just realized I misquoted the article -- it's a 30 year sample, not 15. It is still going to be on a case by case thing. Martin may be better 3 years from now, or he may be collecting a check. When the Sox signed Carlton Fisk for the 1981 season, he was 33 years old. I remember Roland Hemond saying he told JR he thought Fisk had 2 productive years left, but needed to go to 3 to sign him. What did he have 13 seasons in a White Sox uniform, and probably 10 pretty productive ones. Obviously there is no way anyone could expect something similar to happen again, but weird stuff does happen. If Martin winds up a White Sox, I won't be kicking and screaming, but I'm very leary of him putting up numbers and being a presence where it would be a consensus thought with hindsight, that he was a good signing, but I will acknowledge it is possible. And maybe the discrepancy at the age 33 is the time they start platooning more. Who knows? One thing that is certain is if you knew exactly how someone would age, you would be winning a lot of titles.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 10:40 AM) I don't think so either, intuitively, but that's why I was pointing to that article to show that over the last 15 years or so, that HASN'T been the case on the aggregate. The last 15 years has been dominated by steroids. Also, only the better guys even catch much after 34 or 35. The numbers on that graph showed regular position players declining every year, but catchers actually improving at age 33 after several years of decline before declining again, which to me indicates a sample size problem or something else a little out of whack. Maybe that is the year the elite guys still catch and the back ups and not so good guys move on to other things.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 10:10 AM) Interestingly, it was also noted above that "improving pitch framing" is one thing that can help a catcher age well with time, so that might be a skill Flowers could make up some ground on as well. That said, Martin's been really good at that for a long time, but it is probably worth asking how much we really believe the numbers on how big a difference it makes at this time. IIRC, pitch framing seems to be an advanced stat that is looked at a couple of different ways. One, Flowers is near the bottom, in another, he is better than average. I think the Russell Martin you see the next couple years is the Russell Martin that played with the Yankees. Not a bad player but you will be paying him for what he's done since, and those last couple years IMO, will drop off. I am all for an upgrade. I congratulate Flowers for coming back after a slump that many wouldn't come back from, but I think he is too inconsistent to be a regular, although good enough to bide some time until something better that makes a lot of sense comes around. Lillian will be happy when I write the Sox need a LH presence in their line up. That is where they should be spending some cash.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 07:49 AM) Since we are talking about a three/four year deal, how did Konerko's 37 and 38 year old seasons look? Not as good as Harold Baines and Edgar Martinez. Paulie was doing pretty well and probably still would be had the wrist, back and hips held up. JR just said White Sox doctors didn't think he would make it to 2010. Obviously, something could go wrong with Victor that can make him drop off and the odds do increase with age, but Victor has been a really good hitter for a while. He started off really slow in 2013 after missing 2012, but picked it up the second half. As long as he stays relatively healthy, there is no reason to think he can't be a really productive hitter for several more seasons. If there was a choice between him and Russell Martin, I would take Victor as they say in the the Reed threads, 10 times out of 10.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 12:38 AM) Your argument in favor of Martinez is actually the problem with him. You're right, he had a career year at 35. What do you think the probability he'll repeat at 36 is? How about at 37? 38? Let's put it this way, the types of players that continue to produce at elite levels through their age 38 seasons usually end up in Cooperstown. I don't see Martinez as that caliber of player, and if you hated Adam Dunn at 4/$56, it's highly probable that you'll despise Victor Martinez at 3/$60. Look at Paul Konerko's last 4 seasons. Konerko's age 35 season was near MVP caliber, and his decline began at age 36. The last 3 seasons of Konerko are a decent window into what Victor Martinez is likely to give you for 3/$60. If you still think that's a good idea, then I hope that either the White Sox disagree or Victor Martinez defies probability and logic. .303/.376/.847 lifetime. If hehas his career average year, he is pretty damn good.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 11:56 PM) He's involved in the most overrated catch of all time. You know, the one where he caught a pop up, took 27 steps and then stupidly dove into the stands face first and hit a chair. OMG WHAT A PLAY You need to look at it again. While not the greatest play of all time, it is closer to that than the event you described.

I have never understood the Jeter hate. He basically is hated, not by what he does, but because of the perception the media likes him too much. Personally, I wish he had his first ballot HOF career with the White Sox.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) I'm all for Ackley and Butler if that means we're using our resources on acquiring a top line starting pitcher. And no I don't know where that pitcher is coming from, just throwing it out there. Ackley and Butler both have lower OPSs this season than Alejandro De Aza. I am not buying the Sox interest. I do agree if that is their offense moves, they are goimg to be spending a ton on pitching.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) well according to Bernstein, it was all orchestrated by adidas and his PR, and Rose barely knows anything about it. So, thank his PR Why am I not surprised Bernstein looks for the negative when someone, who has a history of not seeking publicity, donates $1 million to a good cause?

Tonight is the first game in Jeter's career where he will play a home game with the Yankees eliminated from playoff contention,

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 02:59 PM) https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/5152287...5546752/photo/1 No Paulie I bet he plays tomorrow. At least then the weekday partial season ticketholders get to pay their respects.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) Greatest moment of my life to be honest. I was picked up and carried around section 121 like it was a concert. I remember in the 8th inning I just stopped and realized I still had the chills. Nothing like it. Podsednik's walk-off was incredible but it was Paulie's slam that stuck to me as the prevailing moment of that entire season. It is kind of a shame Pods' homer is pretty much overlooked for it being a WS walk off, and coming from a guy who hit 0 during the regular season, but Paulie's was bigger. If Paulie doesn't hit his, the Sox lose that game. If Pods' is caught at the wall, it still is tied.

Even though he's a glorified mascot, whose being on the roster this year cost the Sox at least the divsion if not more in the standings, and probably valuable Jordan Danks development time, I think the Sox won the trade in which they acquired him. I'm going to miss Paulie. He obviously wasn't the same after his wrist procedure in 2012, and with the JR quote about the doctors and his hips, and Gonzo's write up about the pain he played with in his back and hips, his body was failing him more than we ever knew. Still, he never made excuses . He is a great example for his teammates and White Sox minor leaguers. I hope at least a couple take advantage of it.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 10:09 AM) Add in some lineup protection for Jose Abreu, and all his intentional walks would have been homers. This is a 130-140 win team if you add Victor Martinez. Not to mention if Nate Jones didn't get hurt, he probably would have had at least 60 saves, and had an ERA around 0.00. Lindstrom could have been the set up man, and probably would have made the rest of the set up men in baseball pale in comparison. I am thinking 145-17 or 150-12.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 08:35 AM) Coming off a bad year, he's not likely going to require a long-term commitment, and he has an incredibly high ceiling. If you can get him for $6-8 mill on an incentive based deal, he's worth the risk as a guy you can play against RHP and as a pinch hitter off the bench against righties. For his career, he's hit .257/.323/.465/.788, which is good for a career wOBA of .340 and a wRC+ of 112 against right handed pitching. Plus he's usually fairly good defensively and he's an athletic player with decent speed. I wouldn't be upset if he wasn't signed, but he's an upside player. He is hitting .236 with a .285 OBP fanning about a third of the time vs. RHP this season, I would stay away from this guy. Rasmus mentioned that his trouble at the plate has something to do with the defensive shifts other teams employ against him. That is something he will need to figure out how to combat, but he was right in mentioning that his line drive rate (23.3%, from FanGraphs) is the highest in his career. His BABIP (.294), a statistic that he also mentioned, is close to his career average (.298) so it isn't as depressed as he claims, but it is depressed compared to his two most successful seasons (both in the .350s). Rasmus has been swinging at pitches outside the strike zone more than any point in his career and has had poor contact rates on his swings this season. I don't know how much of these changes in approach come from himself and how much comes from Seitzer and his father. But with the tendency of others to give him advice, perhaps it would help him more than the typical major league player to change his environment and go to a team where he feels more comfortable. It's hard--and unfair--to judge from behind the keyboard, but it sure sounds like Rasmus is burnt out. He mentioned in this interview that he was looking forward to the offseason, and he told Jamie Campbell that he "just wanted to go home." Yea, he is making much more money playing baseball this season than most of us will make in our lives, but he seems to have fallen out of love with his job. So before he falls out of love with his life, maybe he should go home.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 06:26 AM) Like I said to rabbit, I can appreciate you sticking up for a player on your favorite team. What I'm saying and sticking by is that Sale was wrong, it was obvious, it was chicken s*** and the wrong way to handle the situation. Instead of allowing the paranoia to build, why didn't Sale and Flowers bring their concerns to the Umps instead of lashing out like f***ing child? I also agree with Ausmus in that Victor didn't need somebody giving him signs last time Victor was at US Cellular so why all the sudden now? Because Sale let one lonely little heckler get to him and it created paranoia in Sale's mind before first pitch. Again, I'm not saying Sale should come out and admit to hitting Martinez on purpose. That was never even the issue with me and my previous posts show that. My issue is that Sale acted like a kid having a tantrum during the game and then denied like a kid after the game. The kid needs to grow up and not allow hecklers to get under his skin. Pretty sad how Sale let one heckler and a fan in CF with binoculars to get into his head. I don't like the Tigers but I agree with them on this. I know if the situations were reversed I'd be pretty pissed and I know many on this board would be too. It won't hurt Sale in the future if the Tigers think he may have a couple of screws loose. This is no big deal either way. Victor got hit on purpose, but he didn't exactly back off the pitch. he kind of leaned into it. I also doubt very seriously he was getting info from a guy in CF with binoculars. If he was getting it, why wouldn't the rest of the team been getting it, and if they were getting it, looking at Sale's line, it didn't matter.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 07:13 AM) Where was the term "old" used? Back a few pages.

There has been a couple of posts earlier about Reed being old. People might be a little shocked to know Petricka is actually older than Reed by a few months. Reed is still 25.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 07:28 PM) Suspended? Why do you keep assuming that Sale would be suspended? Are you admitting Sale really did think Victor was getting signs from a fan with binoculars way the hell out in CF? Can't wait to see this response... If Sale admits he hit him on purpose, he will be suspended. It is guaranteed. He would probably miss the first few games next season.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 06:33 PM) I can't believe people calling Sale immature. I love Sale's fire. You have to have moxy to be an ace and no matter how high your moral high ground is, throwing at the opponent is a part of the pitching and the best pitchers have always done it. You have to throw inside and you have to own the plate. Even if it is a little immature, so what? The don't f*** with me attitude is tremendous even if the guy in the bleachers with binoculars was just some guy with little money and poor eyesight and was just catching a game. And the way guys dive when hitting now really has made the brushback a hard thing to execute . Sale obviously has stuff that will intimidate. If he gets an attitude that does the same, it only makes him better.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 05:33 PM) Right. But if no one is on base, it's easy to get the location of the pitch and relay it to the hitter. Like you said it's easy to change signs for the type of pitch but not so much for location. If no one is on, the base coaches can make themselves useful and give you location, and if they think location is being given, the catcher needs to delay his set up. Boys will be boys. Every team tries stealing signs, except when you are the victim you get pissed off.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 05:56 PM) Damage was already done by the time Petricka got the gig. Besides, the White Sox are so broke, they can't afford first year arb guys. They are too expensive. So next year should be the last for Petricka in a Sox uniform. Good thing the White Sox didn't listen to Sox talk and make Webb the closer. 2015 would have to be his final season in a White Sox uniform. I wonder what will be higher. Addison Reed career saves vs. Matt Davidson career hits.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 05:21 PM) It's usually not so much which pitch as it is location. That is difficult to switch up. Yes but you don't need a guy in CF with binoculars to give you location. When I played guys6 who could get signs and location would call you different names. First name would be a fastball last name breaking ball and a swipe here or there for location. Some guys didn't want to know. I always wanted the most help I could get.