Dick Allen

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:06 PM) http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1477 You didn't read it did you? It says it wasn't covering injury likelihoods with extended oitch counts,and also this Since its introduction, PAP has proven popular as a way to assess a team's tendency to overwork its starting rotation. However, there hasn't been the solid sabermetric analysis to support any particular pitch count metric (including PAP) to date. We will try to rectify that situation this year. The article also admitted pitch counts affect each pitcher differently.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 07:09 PM) If we add 4 or 5 more quality bats to our lineup, we can be favored in many of these games. This week's series shows we already have Detroit's number and that's the most important challenge to conquer. There's no reason we can't win this division if Hahn goes out and picks up 4 or 5 guys who can hit .300 and drive in 50+ runs after the break. I like how you think. Go get yourself a hooker.

If the Heat win again next year, wouldn't that lessen the chance of Lebron moving on? He couldn't leave a team going for 4 in a row could he?

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) Says who? Is 134 no different than 124 because it's only 10 pitches? 144 to 134? Sale is fine going 110-115. 124 isn't much more than that. Maybe 2 or 3 batters and the all star break is coming up so he gets a longer rest. Its not a big deal. If you were driving 35 mph in a 25 zone you probably wouldn't expect a ticket. 45 or 55 and you know you are doomed. I would like to know who came up with 120 as the pitch count which causes problems? And where is the study proving it? Guys on tight pitch counts seem to get injured just as much as those who are not. If they made it 125 no one would have a gripe. Another interesting thing is Ventura is constantly ripped here and Joe Maddon is the gold standard. Has anyone ever checked out the pitch counts of David Price and when he had him, James Sheilds? Always hovering around 120.

Reading what an awful time the members of that site have going to the game, it seems they have to interact heavily with ushers every visit, it is incredible they still want anything to do with the team. They actually complained about the stripes on the pants earlier this season.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:14 PM) Acting like the manager isn't the one who decides when pitchers come out and go into the game is idiotic If there was a mandate not to have Sale throw a certain number of pitches, he wouldn't throw a certain number of pitches. I think it varies from start to start as he has some off time coming up now. The difference between 114 and 124 is really nothing.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:05 PM) Tidy 1-2-3 for Matty. Avisail Garcia for Matt Detroit what ya say? ....or you can keep trotting Coke out there. I understand people don't care if Detroit wins the WS if the Sox are out of it, but maybe they should. Winning a WS or advancing deeply in the playoffs means increased revenue. I read yesterday that the Ilitch gravy train is starting to dry up. Money is starting to become a factor.

The Sox had no problems scoring runs this series.

All Star break coming up, a few extra pitches isn't a big deal.

We may overvalue Sale but that's how the White Sox have to think. They don't have to trade him, but if someone wants him the price has to be silly. And if someone is willing to pay a silly price for Sale, Hahn should at least listen.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 02:12 PM) I hear ya, he's not doing it in every start, so it shouldn't kill him. But when your season is down the drain already, it just seems better to be cautious with your most valuable asset. I'm sure the Sox will be very careful with him in the second half. He will probably skip a couple of starts or more. The last thing this season needs is a Sale injury.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 02:09 PM) He was hit earlier in the game, as was Tank. Just a high up and in pitch when he started towards the mound. Would a pitcher really be afraid of the Grace Jones lookalike Alexei coming after him?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) So what you are saying is that Sale is throwing too FEW pitches? So Robin needs to get him closer to the 140 pitch mark more often, to up his chances to be the next Randy Johnson. I wish, I just don't see what throwing 120 pitches vs. 113 a couple of times a year destroys a pitcher as is characterized as abuse. When some were complaining about Santiago not being stretched out, I mentioned he was able to throw 100 pitches in a start and the response I received was he should be able to get to 110-115. That's basically what Sale is averaging.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 01:38 PM) I still think that Miggy isn't smart, he's just too supremely talented to hardly ever look fooled up there. I think his pitch recognition is simply other-worldly and his ability to convert the recognition into a result is just as impressive. I don't think he has to try hard at all to be this good. Watching him go to RF last night showed he's a magician with the bat, and a very clever hitter. I wouldn't want him taking a calculus test for me, but he's a hitting genius.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 01:33 PM) Sale is one of 2 or 3 pitchers to throw 120+ pitches twice this season. (Or something like that) Robin Ventura = white Dusty Baker In 1993, Randy Johnson went over 120 21 times. He went over 140 9 times over 150 once. He was really good for a long time after that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 11:29 AM) The most interesting discussion would be Wong vs. Garcia. Frankly, I'd go with Garcia because he has more upside...and we theoretically will need to replace DeAza and Rios in the next two weeks, if not the offseason. I have no great hope that Carlos Sanchez is going to be a starter someday, but I'd rather wait more on him...and find an outfielder under cost control who would fit more appropriately with our rebuilding efforts. Now if you package Crain and Alexei together, you can improve your return, but still no Castellanos unless Illitch is REALLY desperate. If Peralta's only suspended 50 games, then they'll get him back in September and I'm guessing that he would also be included on the playoff roster (not how that works with suspended players and their status on Sept. 1, might need to be negotiated with the player's assocation)...so that would make them not quite AS desperate to trade for Alexei. They could get by with Santiago, unless the Indians really start putting the pressure on them and/or Verlander goes on the DL. I've read with the appeals process, the suspensions will all probably happen in 2014.

If the Sox were to trade Sale, you would need a top 2 or 3 prospect in all of baseball, plus a couple of other high end minor leaguers plus some quality major league starting players . It would have to be an overpay, but the contract would call for an overpay.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 01:11 PM) I didn't mean go into dick mode. I legitimately thought you were joking. Anyways I don't think the discussion is worth it sincd unless you're Getting Trout back, you aren't getting fair value and the Sox know that. How would anyone know that without an offer being made? Hawk is correct when he said the only guy who couldn't be traded was Michael Jordan, except he can probably add LeBron now.

In 2008, John Danks was a very highly thought of 23 year old, and people around here were comparing 25 year old Gavin Floyd to Roy Halladay. While it would be nice to think the young core of current White Sox starters will be around and effective for a long while, it's probably not realistic.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) Agree. You rebuild when your whole team is bad, not when half of it is bad And the half that is bad is the easier half to fix.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) This idea is what frightens me. Sale is exactly the ace-caliber starting pitcher you'd want anchoring your rotation -- but are we in any position to compete in 2014? 2015? If we're holding onto him, Hahn may as well do everything within his power to build the team to compete. It's useless keeping Sale for the next several years and risk depleting his value if Hahn cannot convince himself that we're in no better position to atleast win the division. The longer the team feels until it will be competitive, the less sense it is to not at least listen to offers for Sale. Hahn isn't stupid. If he's not even listening about Sale or at least trying to gauge what a team would give up to get him, he isn't thinking long term re-build. Stranger things have happened. The 1976 White Sox couldn't hit. 1977 they became the hitmen. As long as the Sox have starting pitching, it makes no sense going into a lengthy rebuild. Hitters will be available.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:22 PM) That's his 22nd 2B of the year, putting him on pace for 40. His previous high is only 31. homers are turning to doubles.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:57 AM) Phegley already described Sale's slider as the most wicked pitch he has caught as a catcher. Considering his reputation for actually catching the ball, if you could sit behind home plate today, you might get to know Mr. Phegley quite well by the end of the afternoon.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:31 AM) If he heals quickly, he's back by July or August, and he could be effective down the stretch for a team. If no one signs him, it's not a big deal either. Check his history the first 2 months of a season. If he can get someone to bite, good for him. I think paying him a million or 2 next year is far better spent on a deadline move.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:02 AM) $1-2 mill for 2-3 months of a #3-4 starter and a team option for like $6 million for year 2? I think that'd be a good deal actually. Hell, the Angels might just give him a 3 year deal. They were willing to give Joe Blanton 2 years and $15 million, and I don't think anyone saw that deal working out well for them. How is he going to be a 3-4 starter next year? Next season is a wash for him. 14-19 month recovery time, then it takes awhile from there and it isn't like he is dealing when the season begins anyway.