Dick Allen

The only way it made any sense for the Sox to give up their top young guys for Greinke is if he would have signed an extension. That won't happen, and the Brewers want prospects, probably whose arb clocks haven't started. Other teams are better a better match for that. There are other guys who will make the Sox better and not have such a high cost. Out on Greinke could be a blessing in disguise.

The price tags are very high right now, but no one is buying yet. It will be interesting to see when the prices start falling.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:48 AM) In that instance, I could make a case that Flowers is about as good of a prospect as Conger. Some might not agree, but Flowers has more power potential and quite frankly is better defensively. Neither Conger/Flowers have proved much at the major league level. Flowers did show he can put up a solid OPS (last year). Hard to judge him this year since he's had limited at bats, but if I were the Rays (and having watched both players), personally, I'd go after Flowers. Physically, Flowers looks more like a young Greg Luzinski every day. Too bad he doesn't hit like him.

He's Aaron Rowand's cousin. Grindy.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:07 AM) If Reed is in the deal, K rod has to come back no? Why?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) He's been an "ace" one year in his entire career. He might be the most overrated pitcher in baseball given his career stats. In many ways, he's very similar to Javy Vazquez.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:53 AM) And that's why a handful of posters on here hope the Braves go out and land Greinke. If the Braves or Texas wants him as badly as KW has been reported to want him, they will get him. If not, KW will have paid a huge price, and dug the 2013-2018 White Sox a bigger hole. For the first time in a while or maybe ever, KW would actually be trading youngsters who have shown they can play at the major league level.

How happy is anyone going to be if the Sox trade any of the mentioned for Greinke and his issues either cause him to be average or the Sox don't win and he walks? KW has been grilled on this board for giving away crappy minor leaguers for major leaguers. Now many people want him to give up his top young players for a guy who is very talented, but a head case, and for 10 starts. If he doesn't lead to Sox to where they want to go and he skates away, it would be a huge error. I'd love the Sox to add Greinke, but it seems there is very little chance he'd be retained and I don't think 10 starts is worth Reed and more.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:04 AM) I really hope the Sox aren't about to acquire one of these guys. I think the cost is way too severe. I like the currently assembled team and I'll take my chances on getting Danks back in August. IMO, they need to replace Humber. If they can get one of the big names without getting rid of Reed, Quintana or Viciedo, I'd be all over that, but if not, get a lesser guy who can take Humber's spot. He's an automatic loss at this point unless the team scores 10 runs.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 07:12 AM) That's not necessarily true. He removed Thornton from the closer's position in May last year for Santos, and Matt was being paid something like $5.5 million. Maybe it wasn't a FA deal or $27 million (like Heath Bell)...but he removed Takatsu as well, in early 2005. Guess Shingo also didn't have such a big contract, compared to Bell or Jenks his last couple of seasons in Chicago. I know you like to equate Thornton's performance with his paycheck, so you might as well know that he actually made $3 million last year, a little over half of what you think he did.

One he hasn't used in a while but used to always be used would be when a foul ball was hit into the empty seats down the corners and people would chase after the ball, "The race is on."

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:04 PM) Saw this on MLB tonight. 23 of the 49 runs Greinke has allowed this year have come in 5 innings. Also GB% OF 53.7% to go along with 8 k/9, perfect for the cell. 14 of the 22 runs Quintana has allowed have come in 5 innings.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:49 PM) And if they do make the post-season, with or without Greinke, then he gets at least 2013 and 2014, agreed? Nobody expected the White Sox to be tied for first on July 26th, apparently, except for you. I don't think you would find anyone disappointed in the job he's done or thinking he should be fired based on this season...you can point to 10 positives and only a few negatives (Beckham, Humber, Morel, Danks)... If they didn"t fire him after last season, they weren't going to fire him after this season even if the lost 95 games. They cut the payroll $30 million. Now that they are in contention, he's not going to get fired after 2013 either. Rick Hahn better take a GM job if he gets offered one, because the White Sox job isn't opening up unless KW quits.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:46 PM) Let's say it's Viciedo/Reed/Quintana/DeAza....2 of those 4. And then another prospect like Salidino, second tier guy. Or possibly including Weeks for Beckham. If we didn't make the playoffs, we'd be hard pressed to keep Youkilis and AJ would be at least 50/50 staying or going. If you also lose Peavy, then there's no point in keeping Floyd just for one season at $9.5 million, unless it's just to trade him at mid-season. However, giving Floyd all those starts would block someone like Castro/Axelrod/Molina/Rienzo/Santiago. Trade Reed, and Myers is going to get to 45 appearances and his $10 million option kicks in, unless he just totally falters. That makes the rotation (theoretically): Sale Danks (maybe?) Floyd Humber Castro/Axelrod There's just no way to compete with the Tigers with that type of rotation. Then you're going to lose Floyd and the rotation looks even worse for 2014. A team with that much uncertainty (especially because of Danks) is looking at 72-74 wins, at most. If Peavy leaves, even with the buyout, the Sox have 8 figures to play with. They could exercise Floyd's option and trade him and have more to play with. AJ is making $6 million, if he goes more money to play with. You're making it sound like these guys will all leave and will only be replaced by current Charlotte Knights. If the Sox continue to draw, even if they don't make the playoffs this year, they should have an opportunity to put a real competitive team on the field next season, although I agree, there is a price that is too high for a guy who is going to make 10 starts.

Whatever the Sox do, it has to be to get Humber out of the rotation.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:16 PM) I've a feeling that KW is toying with the media. KW said he wanted a guy who is " Chicago Tough" and Greinke doesn't fit that at all. My idea is that KW will get Matt Garza. KW knows to get Greinke will put us in the hole next season but Garza is signed through next season. Stone was on televison last week and said the Sox wouldn't get Greinke, he's a small market pitcher. You may be right. It could be gamesmanship for another deal.

Its all going to come down to how badly the Rangers want him. The Sox can't match their offer if they want him enough. If the choice was Quintana/Reed/another prospect for 10 Greinke starts or Castro for 10 Dempster starts, which one do you choose?

I'm with you. I don't see how you give up on a talent like Beckham. Even if he's hitting .230 he helps you win. Haters gonna hate and they will always suggest he be replaced by the Chris Getz's of the world, just to change, but I think he'll hit.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 04:47 PM) 31.5 mil owed the next two years(not including this years salary) 4-9 4.57 era, good luck to them trying to move him Maybe they could get a nice sponsorship from KFC to defray a little cost.

This is for 10 starts. It will be interesting how much more it costs to get Greinke than it would Dempster.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) Not really. Unless you really believed a broken down, 5 years past his prime Rip Hamilton would've been the difference between losing in the conference finals in 2011 and getting to the finals in 2012. If you really believe that, maybe Reinsdorf really is a genius. The Heat almost blew it against a very old Boston team. I agree, counting on a Bulls team to be healthy is about as crazy as saying they are a lock to win a title, but if they were healthy, they had a decent shot. People just mention Rose being hurt, but Deng was hurt, Noah was hurt and Rip was hurt. Basically the only guy who remained healthy was the guy who always gets hurt, Boozer.

QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:08 PM) I keep seeing people saying Floyd is the trade chip, but I can't help thinking its Quintana. Q has been great for us this year, but if you were the Brewers which would make more sense to you. A guy getting paid $9m with one year left before free agency... Or a 23 year old (lefty) at league minimum they could control for the next 5 years. And for us... Q is in the same dangerous territory that Sale is reaching innings wise. One of the main reasons for us to get another starter is to cover innings Sale and Q may not be able to pitch. What good would it do us down the stretch if we give up a 200+ inning guy like Floyd and then still be forced to dip into the minors to get coverage for Sale/Q when they max out? My guess... Quintana and Beckham are being offered along with one or more minor leaguers. This is pretty logical, but all the Sox are gaining is the upgrade to Greinke which, with his concerns, may not be an upgrade, plus you lose Beckham's defense and please don't any mention Escobar, although I'm sure Hudson would become the second baseman.

Someday the Sox will pay $23 million a year for a pitcher, but if they won't come close to giving Mark Buehrle $14 million a year for 4 years, they aren't going to offer anyone $23 million a year for even longer in the near future.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:02 PM) That seems like robbery on the Sox's part. I agree that if this deal goes down, it's Floyd + a prospect for Grienke...at a minimum. I am afraid that the Sox may overpay. If there aren't talks right away of extending him (Grienke), the Sox may/will way overpay for a 2 month rental. If the Sox trade Floyd for Greinke, even if Greinke walks, that should be an upgrade this season, even if its only one or two extra wins, they probably are needed, and it frees up almost $10 million for next year for some kind of replacement. That part of the trade makes a lot of sense. Its what else that is the concern, because there has to be something else.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) When Gordon Beckham is our September/October (post-season) MVP, then we can talk. Crede was... 1) A much better power hitter 2) A much better clutch hitter, for example, getting runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, Uribe and Crede were awesome 741 (2003) and 717 (2004) were his OPS numbers heading into 2005... Gordon's about 100 points below that. KW was also saying the same things about Torii Hunter and Brian Anderson...or about Josh Fields. Been there, done that. As I said, July of 2005. People wanted Crede gone. 2006 Crede actually became quite the hitter until his back blew out. He was a .300 30 homer guy, but a injured Sept. ruined his numbers and although he had flashes, he was never the same. Gordon just needs some confidence. The talent is there, and it shows once in a while.