Dick Allen

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:33 PM) I think it also depends on whether or not the casual fan thinks we are in this race, too. Most I know think they suck and have no chance. I'm sure our good friend Joe would be more than happy to spin it into KW and JR giving up on the fans. Taking Quentin out of the Sox line up and not replacing him with a stud hitter would be pulling the plug on this season. I don't know about Viciedo's thumb. I'm very high on him, but to put all that on his back calling him up is ridiculous.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:30 PM) Neither of us have any idea if they would trade him for anything less than an absolutely amazing package. If even half the proposed package is ever offered, you do it, no questions asked. Where has there been a proposed package mentioned?

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:29 PM) Fair point I suppose, despite the condescension. How similar is the pre-2005 fan base to the current, though? I think very similar. I think the bandwagon fans have jumped off.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:25 PM) The question then becomes, does trading Quentin for an absolutely amazing package constitute as pulling the plug? You have no idea what is being offered for Carlos Quentin.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:23 PM) I hope you don't plan on winning any time in the next few years then. I'm sure the fans would react positively to that, though. What is the best offer on the table right now for Quentin or Thornton?

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:18 PM) For the record, I'm all for major rebuilding IN THE OFF-SEASON if the Sox fail to make the playoffs this year. Just don't cut the legs out from a team that has a legit shot of winning the division this season. It makes a lot more sense than pulling the plug right now. For the record, I don't think the Sox will pull the plug.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:11 PM) And get much smaller returns, especially for Quentin. I honestly believe we can trade him and Thornton right now and still compete. If we trade a starter, we are definitely conceeding. This is laughable. You don't even know what exactly is being offered for Quentin right now. How do you trade Quentin right now and have enough offense to win?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:10 PM) He could, but teams with a full winter to build their team aren't nearly as willing to offer major parts in return as teams fighting to make it to the World Series are right now. That's the risk/reward. In particular with a guy like Quentin, he could suffer a season ending injury at any moment and nobody would be surprised. That wouldn't do much for his value this winter. It's all a risk/reward thing. Just one of many tough parts of being GM. He could get injured, he also might hit 20 homers. Unless he suffers an injury that will carry into next season, Quentin will still have a ton of value in a couple of months.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:01 PM) This. When you can't draw without winning, it takes a long, long time to rebuild. Ask KC, Pittsburgh, Tampa, etc. I bet the youth movement would be fun for about half a season before everybody either complained or just didn't care. I'm all for trading Carlos if the package is right though. It's a smart move. An all out rebuild right now would really cripple this franchise for the better part of a decade. Just think about the former crown jewel franchises, franchises that seemed to know how to develop their own talent as well or better than anyone over the years has done totally rebuilding. Baltimore, KC and Pittsburgh. JR was gung ho to start rebuilding with his "genius" GM with the Bulls. What followed was the worst stretch of basketball in NBA history. I don't see him trying that again in either sport.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:04 PM) All I'm saying is that making money is more important than winning baseball games to the ownership. If they keep this team in tact and fail to make or do much in the playoffs, this organization will be set back years. KW may not be willing to take that risk, particularly when we can still win the division without Quentin. BS. He can still trade Quentin and Thornton and Danks and Floyd in the offseason.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:01 PM) One mans trash is another mans treasure, if you pay 90% of Rios contract Im sure you can find a team that would basically take Rios as a flier. You hope in a new environment he gets his head straight and hes a steal. If he doesnt you can do whatever because you only paid a few mil for him. (not saying this rumor is legit, just that you could deal Rios) If the Sox waived Rios, he would have another job in a few days making minimum while the Sox pay him off, but how much are the Sox willing to eat? If it is nothing, then no one wants Alex Rios. If its half, than maybe possibly there's a chance someone might take him, but I don't see JR eating that kind of money.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:56 PM) Sure you do. Thornton is about to be 35 and is very expensive. This rumor is BS because even if you throw in Thornton, they wouldn't take Rios. I don't think they would take Rios if you threw in Danks.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:52 PM) I was only 7 or 8 at the time, but from hearing about it from some posters, it sounds like there was a much bigger picture to them drawing 12,000 than just the one trade. Failing to do much in the playoffs does more to harm this organization than "White Flag Part 2." I disagree. If they win the division, they will always be able to sell "we played like s*** and still won" and say they won't or can't be that bad again. Its never good to surrender when you have a very legitimate shot. They are 2 out in the loss column.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:50 PM) There seems to be a bit of a bidding war which helps to make sure he doesn't get garbage. Besides, if garbage is offered, there is no pressure to trade them. I'm hoping for a nice return that helps the future and changes somehow spark this years team. This has been the most frustrating team I can remember in that they were so good on paper and just stunk. A buddy of mine said it best. After the KC wild pitch loss, he said that he loved the Sox and always will, but he hates this team. I knew how he felt. July 28th and not even a 500 club. If TCQ can be traded to get Dominic Brown plus prospects and the Sox Q's allocated money to spend next year, that sounds good to me. I don't care if he gets the top ten ranked prospects in baseball. If they fail, he failed. Sorry, that's life. Trading away proven guys for prospects is always risky. Not everything goes as planned.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:42 PM) What don't you understand about not making money? JR said they had the money to cover any loss this season because he saved a little here and saved a little there. Maybe they get swept by Boston and are 6 out on Sunday and things are different, but pulling the plug when you are 3 out with mediocre at best teams in front of you will cost this organization more money in the next 3 or 4 years than not winning this year but still paying the current roster.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:39 PM) The problem is that it was stated at the beginning of this season that if the White Sox didn't win to create a big interest in the fan base, they would have a hard time being a profitable organization. They aren't going to want to pay for these big names if the fans don't want to. And, if KW can rebuild on the fly while still remaining competitive this year instead of being slightly more competitive and imploding as an organization in the off season, I'm all for it. Now, if they're willing to keep spending to keep "filling" in our holes, I'm good with them staying pat right now too, but I just can't see us continually raising our payroll without actually generating much in the way of results. Therin lies the problem. If you think the GM even when given more money to spend cannot improve the team or at the very least are quite skeptical, shouldn't someone else be the GM?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:32 PM) Not having to pay Ozzie would be enough for Kenny. I agree, but if Ozzie is managing in Miami next year, I'm sure KW would like something from the Marlins.

If KW does send Quentin and Thornton or other veterans packing, it is imperative the return works out. If its garbage, he needs to be shown the door.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:29 PM) They were also a far better team in 1997 than they have been this year. Offensively, no question about it, or for Frank Thomas, no doubt about it. Pitching-wise, they were brutal. They had Alvarez and Darwin were their only starters with ERAs under 5.00, and their bullpen wasn't much better.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:28 PM) How hard is it to type with Oney's dick in your mouth? I hope Joe has windshield wipers on his glasses to clear away Oney's goo.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:08 PM) Like the last couple years when we were in the same position and collapsed in August/September? So there will never be any reason to try to get better and actually win at the deadline because in 2009 and 2010 the Sox collapsed.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:06 PM) Those of you who are pining for a firesale-for-prospects while 3 games out in late July have poor memories. The team they were behind 14 years ago was a far better team than the teams they are behind now. Trading your best players now and loading up on Matt LaPorta's and Jeff Marquezes would be a disaster.

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 09:57 PM) I'm not sold that winning the division means s***, they're not even .500 for starters, and im tired of the 2006 cards being brought up, ugh... Winning the division gives you a chance and with the Sox pitching anything can happen in the playoffs. If the offense suddenly starts making up for lost time, they would be a very scary team to have to play.

KW doesn't want Ozzie to walk away, he just wants him to say Miami is the place he wants to be. Compensation baby. Maybe not Logan Morrison, but something worthwhile.

3 out 2 in the loss column after taking 4 of 5 from the teams in front of you is not the time to dismantle. As poorly as the Sox have played, it would be way worse than the White Flag Trade. Not. Even. Close. I think the Sox add a little something before the deadline. Its time to start winning.