Dick Allen

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jul 23, 2011 -> 06:36 PM) Well Humber doesnt fall into with other 3 yet, but as far as it goes the other 3 only had a good season under Cooper while Rowand had similar career post wsox. Also Rowand probably was a roider and probably had a part to do with any of his success. That doesn't matter. Rowand had one good season after he left the Sox and got paid. Explain why Jose Contreras has a higher ERA with the White Sox than he did with the Yankees or Rockies or Phillies. And are you saying if Thornton continued to pitch as he's pitched with another team, you would have to take him off your Cooper column? Walker isn't a bad hitting coach. He's pretty similar results-wise with Cooper if you really examine it. People will say well Cooper has made something useful out of Floyd and Humber, but how many hitters drafted #4 and considered top prospects at some time has KW acquired for Walker to work with. Quentin is one and he probably would have been the MVP in 2008 had it not been for an injury.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jul 23, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) Aaron Rowand isn't legit, he had 1 good season with us and 1 good season after the Wsox but largely below avg. and why would I give him credit for Iguchi or Dye? Konerko also changes his swing every two weeks himself and Loaiza was picked off the scraps, he would of been in AAA or out of baseball most likely before his season with us. Like I said, firing Walker won't fix the offense... but the guy isn't good at his job and I'm starting to think you are related to him. Rowand isn't legit because he only had one good year, but Cotts and Politte, Loiasa and Humber and even Contreras are in your Cooper column. You must be stoned. At least you admit firing Walker won't fix the offense, so why should he be fired?

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jul 23, 2011 -> 08:32 AM) Jermaine Dye was injury plagued for awhile before his time with the Wsox and was a former all star, I don't understand how you credit him being healthy to Walker. Thome/Thomas are both HoF mashers and Thomas has a very unorthodox swing that Walker had nothing to do with. Juan Uribe's 2 seasons in San Fran were better than all but 1 with the Wsox. Alexi is exactly what he was projected, not sure where you are going with that at all. I don't think anyone is going to claim firing Greg Walker is going to automatically fix the offense, but the fact is he is nothing better than below avg. at his job. As far as Cooper in comparison well top of my head. Cooper: Matt Thornton Gavin Floyd Phil Humber Esteban Loaiza Bobby Jenks Jose Contreras Neal Cotts/Cliff Politte(had success with us than out of baseball after) Walker: Joe Crede ??? Interesting you don't give Walker any credit for fixing Konerko, which he did when he took over midway 2003. Making Aaron Rowand legit, Dye, Iguchi, Ramirez, yet you give Cooper credit for any little thing. Thornton was a big fix. He made on small adjustment and it changed Matt Thornton's life. I give Cooper credit for it. Floyd was supposed to be a star. He really hasn't progressed much after his 2008. Humber has been tremendous. Loaisa was a short term fix, much of his success based on a cutter he started to develop before Cooper and Cooper helped him with it, although his success was very brief. Jenks was supposed to be a star, and I really don't know how you give Cooper credit for a guy throwing 100, but fine. Contreras signed for 8 times as much money as Alexei Ramirez. I loved Jose Contreras, was his biggest fan, but he was very inconsistent and its funny one of Soxtalks all time biggest punching bags is now considered a Don Cooper success story. I think El Duque had a lot to do with Jose Contreras' success myself. He told him to start pitching like he did in Cuba. Neal Cotts and Cliff Politte? One good season each? At least 2 horrible seasons each. Really? Why wouldn't every White Sox hitter that had a decent year even if it was for 200 AB then be a Greg Walker success story? Alexei was projected as Omar Infante with less power. Sorry. Silver Slugger SS aren't available for 4 years $1 million a year. I also never gave Walker credit for Frank Thomas. I asked a poster to name all the players who went on to bigger and better things after Greg Walker because he said there had been plenty. I told him not to include Frank Thomas because when Frank was healthy and Walker the hitting coach, Frank was fine. Juan Uribe's first season in SF was the same as his first season with the Sox. He is also fading and his career numbers show a slightly higher OPS in the AL vs. the NL. Your response is typical of the Walker hater, and Cooper lover. You don't look at everything through the same lenses. The hitting coach and the pitching coach are not the problem with the White Sox. Changing either will have no effect on wins and losses at least in a positve manner. If you replace them with the wrong guy, things might even get worse. Players must change, either that or the one's not performing need to perform.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) Jermaine Dye had the same numbers with the Sox as he did in KC, just a higher slugging percentage (which makes sense considering the home parks). Carlos Quentin was not a bust in Arizona as much as he had even more injury problems there than he's had here. Juan Uribe was statistically a better hitter with San Francisco and Colorado than he was with the Sox. I'm literally laughing at Frank Thomas & Jim Thome's names being brought up, and bringing up Alexei is just throwing a name out there since none of us ever saw him before he got here. Now, do you have any actual examples to defend your favorite hitting coach? Carlos Quentin had more injury problems in AZ than he's had here? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Walker will never get a fair shake. Dye was much better as a White Sox than a Royal or an A. I don't know why you're laughing at Thome and Thomas. I was preparing for, which btw, I did not get a response, the answer as to which hitters became much better after Walker. I was sure he would mention Frank Thomas, so I countered that with Thome as their conditions were very similar. Uribe wasn't better with Colorado than the Sox, he was slightly better in SF, but not if you took his first 2 White Sox seasons, and he faded just like with the Sox, and I'm not just throw Alexei's name out there. He has hit significantly better than he was projected. That's just a fact.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 01:33 AM) Dad to Son: Son I want to talk to you about your report card. You got a D in Geometry. Son to Dad: Becky next door got a D in English. Dad to Son: And how does the girl next doors grade in English remotely have anything to do with your geometry grades? Still trying to figure out how a discussion on The hitting coach automatically links the pitching coach in. Hey comparing Jamarillo to Walk, sure valid they do the SAme thing and it's apples to apples. Not really linking just show the disparity in how they are viewed. Cooper walks on water no matter what, Walker is garbage no matter what. The fact that no one gets better with other teams after they leave the Sox and Walker has been around 8 years might just show he working with an ability level that isn't as high as his critics assume. Give Rudy Jaramillo Brent Morel, make Perez Hilton Albert Pujols personal batting coach. At the end of the day when the results are in, using most of Soxtalk's criteria, Perez Hilton would be the far better hitting coach. That's not right. And if you want to compare Jaramillo with Walker, the did have one hitter in common in recent years. In fact the guy had 4 htting coaches in 4 years. His best season was with Walker. Andruw Jones.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 08:34 PM) So that justifies the extension? It's not the trade itself for me. Fields and Getz are both replacement level players. The extension is what boggles the human mind. Hawk had been a Teahen guy for years thinking he would develop big power, then the year before KW got him, even the Hawkeroo soured on Teahen.

QUOTE (beckham15 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 08:31 PM) look i'm just venting, i want SOMETHING to be done to spark an interest in this team again....even when we've been bad before i've always put up with it but lately i've been like yeah it's not even worth watching.... How about a change that might actually do something? Whether you believe it or not, firing Walker isn't going to suddenly make everyone start hitting.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 08:30 PM) Teahen has made a dramatic improvement at third this year. I'd call him almost adequate. Give it time. They used to say the same thing about Jorge Orta at 2nd. Year after year after year. Teahen is just saving some really bad plays until when it will hurt the Sox the most.

QUOTE (beckham15 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 08:24 PM) quit it.....the hitting coach cannot be held responsible as his job means nothing apparently Fire Greg Walker and get Teahen's Cooperstown bust ready.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) Thank you Carlos! Time to get rid of Quentin. The Sox might score runs if he's on the team.

I wonder what JR is like during tonight's game. If you think we get upset when things go wrong, look up in his box when the Sox mess up.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 07:42 PM) I believe he is hitless PERIOD! Actually he's 2 for 31, he's 0-18 with a runner on 3rd and 2 out. All that for only $12 million a year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 07:40 PM) 2 for 35 for Rios with RISP and 2 outs now? Also has a nice .445 OPS on the road. I believe he's hitless with a runner on 3rd.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 07:37 PM) you gotta walk AJ to get to rios And anyone who pitches to Paulie with a base open and Dunn on deck deserves to get burned.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 07:29 PM) Who knows if he is correct, but Cowley was saying today that Ozzie is keeping Dunn 4th as an F-U to Kenny for acquiring a slugging DH when KW knows Ozzie didn't want that. Funny, Joe, I mean Marty34 said the same thing in one of the threads yesterday. If its true, I believe Ozzie should be blackballed from baseball for not trying to win.

Would Ozzie be fired if he insisted on having Brent Morel leadoff? Would he get fired for insisting on batting Juan Pierre in the clean up spot? If the answer is yes to either, shouldn't he get fired for insisting to bat Dunn 4th after all he has seen?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 02:23 PM) Why would they be expected to do better for Quentin this offseason? He's cheaper now for a team making a run right now, he's healthy now (which you know is a risk 2 months down the road)...and most importantly, he doesn't have to compete with a bunch of other FA outfield options next offseason, there are only a handful of available OF bats right now. I'd think you can get a lot more for him now than in 2 months. Unless he goes crazy and puts up a 1.200 OPS for August and September, which he can do but... I'm actually kind of shocked Quentin won't get you a good prospect, assuming Boers is accurate. Maybe teams are afraid of his arb number next year. If the Sox are "desperate" to move him like Terry says, they apparently are very afraid.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) He doesn't even save them that much money this year. If they really want to deal him, they can wait until this winter and do much better for him. If teams needing a bat for the second half don't want to give up anything of significance for him now, I don't see why that would necessarily change in the winter, but I do agree, at least with Quentin, it makes no sense to dump him unless your getting something useful in return. Jackson may be a different story if the Sox want to save a couple million and save the million or so the draft pick would cost. The one advantage you have in acquiring prospects is your are off the hook for their bonuses and you can already see some of their development and project what they may be.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) Or they are one bad week away from being done. It is amazing how a team can be so consistently mediocre for 100 games. It would make you conclude its a mediocre team, but if you're a mediocre team, the AL Central isn't a bad place to be.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 01:59 PM) which says more about the weakness of the division than the play of the Sox. It also feels like we have been saying that for about 5 or 6 weeks now Of course. Imagine how big of idotsOzzie and KW would be if the Sox were in the AL East? I still am trying to figure out why Adam Dunn is batting 4th. Even Frank Thomas was dropped down in the line up when he struggled, and he never struggled like Dunn is.

QUOTE (onedude @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 11:54 AM) And the Indians have a ton of confidence....which multiplies if they can take at least 2 of 3. We need at least 2 of these games, and they have to be big victories, none of this wimpy eeking out bull s*** most of their wins have been lately Cleveland is the one team in the Central the Sox have done well against. I think they take at least 2 out of 3. Its amazing, but the Sox are one good week away from being serious contenders again.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 01:50 PM) Jackson will be a type B free agent so the prospect return would have to be better than the draft pick we'd receive. You're not taking into account salary relief. We really have no idea where the Sox stand on that. They say they are broke, they bring in guys making 8 figures. They say the checks will clear, maybe they make salary dumps.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 01:46 PM) I agree. If you aren't getting a Sandwich Pick type player plus back, sit on Jackson. Unless they are real desperate not to have to pay him the next couple months.

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) Terry Boers Sox contact says Sox are "desperate" to trade Quentin and Jackson, and that top prospects arent being offered for either player. Says 7 teams have been in contact about those two players I don't know why they would desperate to trade Quentin. The only thing I could think up is salary. They probably are really worried what he'll get next year, but unless they think he can't earn the money, with Konerko and Rios and Dunn on the books, there really isn't going to be a total rebuild, Quentin can help them win.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 08:52 AM) Who has the minor league contacts to know when a player is coming up? I heard a rumor that this may actually be happening. Not that it hasn't made sense and was the most logical move for at least 2 months, but it makes a lot of sense now as this weekend and the beginning of next week are against the teams ahead of them. The next 6 games could make or break the Sox, then they play Boston and the Yankees.