Dick Allen

The Sox are better off when Dunn strikes out with men on base. Next time Ozzie should get tossed for arguing balls and strikes when the umpire refuses to ring up Adam.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 10:41 AM) Beckham was no different than most every other rookie in his first few weeks with butterflies and still getting adjusted to the show- you know you should throw those first few weeks out because of that, but no, you'll conveniently use them to support your baseless opinion. His swing didn't change from the minute he came up to the end of the 2009 season, so let's quit the nonsense that Walker helped him out of his early rut which 90% of rookies go through if not 100%. The truth is once Walker got time to get inside his head he hasn't developed at nearly the rate we expected out of him. I gotta believe that Gordon has gone through mental midget phases BECAUSE OF WALKER. Yes, coaches can get inside of young players heads. He clearly has the talent, but is getting in his own way, probably overwhelmed with mechanics etc versus just reacting and swinging the bat like he did when he came up in 2009. But you're right, Walker is great, Ozzie makes all the right decisions, and Walker's record of track record of success in developing young talent is flawless. Politics may be a good future role for you or perhaps you can join Rongey on the post game show. Regarding my employees, it is my responsibility to get the right people in the right spot and let them do their thing. When I miscalculate, I ADJUST AND MAKE CHANGES. But in a world where performance doesn't matter and you have a job for life (like working for the White Sox or being a Post Office Employee) then you can sit there and blame others for your failures and take no responsibility. Isn't that convenient. In my world, I am not afforded that luxury, as I actually have to deliver otherwise I'll be on the street. Too bad it's not the same for the White Sox or we might see a team that actually plays up to its ability and gives the fans what they deserve. Using your criteria, if your employees aren't getting the job done, they shouldn't be fired, you should. Its your fault.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) Thome, Thomas, Rowand, Uribe for starters. Thome was no better than he was in 2006 with the Sox and his spots were picked. Thomas was coming off an injury and was doing just fine under Greg Walker before he got hurt. Rowand had a contract year similar to his year in 2004, as did Uribe. Very similar to his year in 2004. Walker was the hitting coach then.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 08:11 AM) I understand, and I agree that no one will simply take the contracts. That was my point. Wouldn't some team be willing to take those contracts if they could acquire Danks or Jackson? I doubt it. The teams that usually take on money, Boston, is right up against the luxury tax and supposedly can't add payroll. The Yankees are over, so Rios contract would really cost them 150% of what they would be paying him. Thats about $19 million a year, plus if you want to keep Danks, he'll cost you the same or more. Due to sheer dollars, I don't think you could find a team who would take Rios or Dunn, if you just gave them John Danks to do so, much less give you anything for him, and certainly not for a 2 month rental of Edwin Jackson. The Sox are stuck with them. Hopefully, they will either come around, or Ozzie will move them down in the line up, or Ozzie will move them out of the line up, and if their performance ever improves to the point someone will take their contracts, KW needs to dump them immediately.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 03:17 PM) Oh. Hopefully a few of those will be hi-def for us. Tomorrow's on GN actually so we're good there. I'm rather disappointed with how few of the Extra Innings broadcasts are hi-def. Seems like they all should be, given that the local broadcasts of the games are all (or predominantly) in hi-def. On DirecTV they all are offered in HD. I had RCN a couple of years ago, and they only had one game a day HD. As long as the rain stays away, DirecTV is pretty awesome for sporting events.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 05:36 AM) It seems that most of us agree that the highest priority should be to move the Rios and Dunn contracts. Neither of these guys appears to be good enough to justify their salaries, even if they should start to play a little better. Their contracts could cripple the organization for the next three years, and tie managements hands from making any further needed acquisitions. The only way you can trade such under achieving players is to include them in a deal with a player that some team really wants and needs. Looking to next year, perhaps they could now trade two different packages to a couple of contending teams. A National League team might have confidence that Dunn could produce up to his N.L. career numbers, playing 1B. If someone wants pitching and could use Dunn, trade Jackson and Dunn for a young pitching prospect. Then package Danks and Rios, and send them to a team needing a good LH starter. If they want Danks, who should be considered highly desirable, they have to agree to take Rios. This is addition by subtraction. Unloading the Rios and Dunn contracts would give the Sox a lot of payroll flexibility going into next year. We could afford to retain Quentin, and plug in de Aza in CF and Viciedo for the other corner outfield spot. With the money the Sox would save, they should be able to sign a good LH power bat to DH. That was the idea with Dunn, but I think that you have to realistically conclude that he is not the answer. Perhaps they could get even more back in those trades, however just unloading the Rios and Dunn salaries, without having to kick in any salary relief, would justify the moves, IMO. Is any of this realisitically feasible, and if so, which teams are the best candidates for such trades? And lastly, who would you target in the off season as a free agent LH power bat? Could Prince Fielder be affordable with all of the salary relief provided by these moves? That could be the highest priority, but it would be a waste of time. No one is going to take the Dunn or Rios contracts off your hands.

You don't get too excited over one start. His next one might be a dud. Edwin Jackson to me, although their styles are different, is the second coming, results-wise to Jose Contreras. Up and down, up and down, if he ever puts it together for a long stretch, he's an ace anywhere, but he's not going to re-sign at a figure JR and KW would be comforable with, so if a team wants to give you something useful for him, make the deal. 6 man rotations aren't going to work. If its just for some minor league scrap that probably will top off at batting 6th or having a 4.84 ERA with the Charlotte Knights, you might as well keep him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 12:37 AM) Those are extenuating circumstances. For most of that time, Danks was pitching pretty decently, we all know his offensive support is the worst or among the worst of any MLB pitcher since he's been here. So, in a way, Walker will even get blamed for Danks being 0-8, right? Because if he pitched for the Yankees during that timeframe, or Rangers, or Red Sox, he'd be 5-3 or 6-2. It's not like he went all John Lackey...who by the way, has a similar record to Danks. Contreras was never the same pitcher after his injury, particularly the back and hip problems. Cooper worked on changing his arm angles to relieve the pressure on his back, but he lost command of his fastball and forkball compared to 05-06. And he never got back that dominating fastball...the 95-97 MPH version. After the injury, he was no longer confident in the FB and overused the forkball and started to nibble. I think EVERYONE blamed Javy's lack of cojones and "testicular fortitude" for his own personal troubles and demons. Contreras did get his fastball back. When he went to Colorado. In fact he said he wanted to take the Colorado pitching coach with him wherever he went. Could you imagine if a struggling young White Sox hitter got traded and then dominated the league? Walker would be even a bigger doofus. Dan Hudson and Clayton Richard struggle with the White Sox and immediately become better when going to other teams. Any Cooper bashing? Both even said their new routines were very different than they were in Chicago. If a guy goes 0-4 and you want to blame Walker, fine. But if you do, if a guy gets lit up, you should blame Don Cooper. As I posted several days ago, the pitching and hitting results over the years are just about even. I'm sure someone will post USCF is a hitters park, but the pitchers have done better at home than on the road, so really that point would be moot. You just said Javy lacking stones is on him, yet when its time to bash Walker, Beckham according to some, a "mental midget" is Walker's fault. Makes no sense. Remember, when you hit, most of the time you fail, when you pitch, even if you're bad most of the time you get people out. Some were up in arms that Beckham fanned twice against Justin Verlander the other night.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 04:40 AM) When our offense was going good we'd still have issues with scoring 8 runs one game and then 1 the next. We've never had a consistent scoring attack since 2005 offensively, and the onus needs to be put somewhere. Secondly, I agree with Caulfield that part of the hatred towards Walker stems from his inability to get Gordo back to anything close to where he was when he entered the league with HIS OWN SWING. If you want to simply ignore this fact to support your own viewpoint, so be it, but the proof is in the pudding IMO. Gordon started with his own swing and now has been a mental midget for the better part of 2 years. And I also take issues with the fact that when Rios hit well with us it was at the very beginning of his tenure with Walker, before he got into his head, as well. These are just facts. Is it all Walkers fault? No. I don't blame him for the debacle Dunn has been, but a change of any sort would certainly be welcome there. The reality is it seems he cannot get out of his own way- his intentions are good, and he is a hard worker, but he ISN'T PERFORMING and for that he should be fired. Of course Ozzie is so pig headed that he won't change anything that clearly isn't working, with the exception of blaming it all on the players and pulling a few of them from their roles. We've all seen the unwillingness to make any obvious changes from this organization and that is probably the most frustrating thing about it when you break it down. "Gordo" started with his own swing and Walker ruined him? Beckham changed his swing from the time he was drafted, and most scouts who thought he would be a bust changed their minds. He also started out hitting about .100, until he got very hot, guess what, working with Walker. Get your facts straight. Rios was acquired on waivers because he sucked. He initially sucked with the White Sox, worked with Walker over the winter and had a great first half of 2010. He has fallen apart since. You call players "mental midgets" and then blame coaches for their failures. The guys that work for you and work 60 hour weeks but can't get the job done, how is that their fault? Shouldn't it be yours? You should fire yourself.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 10:16 PM) Dick, I'm not sure that comparison alone is fair. The fact of the matter is that we lead the majors in quality starts since 2003. There's just no arguing with that, it's one of the most important stats you can possibly throw out there. Theoretically, that means you're giving your team a very good chance to win on all of those occasions. It's true, when you remove Thomas, Valentin, Carlos Lee and Ordonez from the offense, it's going to be a lot less explosive. And even Crede, Rowand, Uribe, AJ (when he first came to Chicago), Everett, etc., were much bigger threats than the 5 "worst" guys in our line-up in 2011. And it's really no secret that when the White Sox have pitched very well (2005-2006, 2008, 2010-2011 for long stretches) it's kept our team competitive. As I've said before, a lot of this Walker angst is about Beckham's "regression." There's probably nobody on our team outside of Dunn and Rios that are incredibly off what their normal expected numbers would be...it's really just those two guys. Those situations probably have one million posts attached to them alone. Here's the way I look at it. Let's say Ozzie resigned and announced he was going to be managing the Marlins in 2012. Who would you rather bring back, Cooper or Walker? Neither? Both? Just Walker? If you looked at where our starters were in 2007 (Contreras on his last legs with us as a starter), especially Danks and Floyd, they've made tremendous strides as major leaguers. Most of us didn't think we'd get much at all out of Floyd, and we certainly didn't in the beginning. You know the list. Thornton, Jenks, Loaiza, Contreras (based on expectations when he was acquired from NY), Garland, Clayton Richard, Marte, Floyd, Danks, Santos, Humber...Edwin Jackson last year, and maybe again this year now. It's not really Cooper's fault that KW was paying Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland, Javy...etc., about 40% of the money that was going into the roster. Pitching wins games. If you want to point at his "failures," you have a much shorter list. Javy, although in all fairness, blaming Cooper for Javy....well no pitching coach in baseball's gotten through to him on a consistent basis. Then you have MacDougal, Masset, Aardsma and Sisco. Interestingly, all those pitchers supposedly were stubborn to listen to him and/or were reluctant to add other offspeed pitches to their repertoire. It just seems like Cooper can make a bigger difference with the individual pitchers than Walker can as the hitting coach. Different jobs, different methods and evaluations. But it's a lot easier to change Greg Walker than it would be to dump Rios, Dunn, Teahen, Beckham, Morel, etc. When Javy Vazquez sucked, who blamed Cooper? When John Danks was 0-8, who blamed Cooper. When Contreras wasn't pitching well, who blamed Cooper? They gave him credit when they pitched well. Its exactly the opposite with Walker and everyone knows it. Apparently most people believe everyone is a .400 ba 1.100 OPS guy until speak to Greg Walker and every pitcher is a 8.00 ERA guy until they speak to Don Cooper. If the Sox had lost today 20-1 Greg Walker should be fired would have been attached to at least 25 posts. Its beyond ridiculous. A lot of hitters have done very well with Greg Walker as the hitting coach. He's not the problem.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 08:57 PM) Four games back. It is amazing that as bad as this team has been, they are right there. If they actually had been playing well, this division would be a cakewalk.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 07:44 PM) Aside from AJ/Flowers, isn't pulling Rios and Dunn pretty much the normal "B team" lineup? Winning the 3rd game of a 3 game series where they have won the first 2 seems as difficult for the White Sox the past couple of years as trying to beat Minnesota, but I agree with you, pull Rios and Dunn. How much more of this does anyone have to see?

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 07:11 PM) Indeed it is on KW ultimately. However, we certainly couldn't do anything worse with a new batting coach could we? As they don't matter anyways as most of the Greg Walker defenders use as their argument to keep him around for life? Maybe just a change would prove to get something register with Rios and Dunn. They both have the talent. We won't make it to the post season without both of them producing. I love how the Walker defenders talk about how much work he is putting in with these guys. As an owner of my own company for 12 years, I can tell you some of the best employees I got work only 4-6 hours a day. But they get it done and deliver their numbers, which is all that matters. Simultaneously I have people working 12-14 hrs a day producing less than desirable results and after a while, are on their way out. Think about it- the fact that he is spending 15 hrs a day with these guys producing garbage results is almost more embarrassing when you think about it... If you look at the Sox pitching and hitting league rankings since Walker took over, the offense has ranked higher than the pitching 4 times and the pitching has ranked higher than the offense 4 times. I'd bet anything the White Sox spend more money per pitcher than per position player. Walker is fine. Your comparison to your company is hilarious, I guess you don't want Walker or any hitting coach working with players. If you look at the hitting results, it appears they need the extra work. Walker is willing to put that work in. Sign Albert Pujols and players like that and you could have me be the hitting coach, but the Sox can't do that.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 05:12 PM) "His foot was coming off the bag there" Which implies that his foot was still on the bag. f***ing moron. Nice job by Ejax. Looks great out there. I think the umpires' contract might say Fox can't say they are ever wrong. They don't show pitch trax anymore and although the umpire clearly blew the call and Fox showed evidence of that, neither guy said it was wrong, only that it was close.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 02:49 PM) MLB Extra Innings doesn't have access to Fox games. Sorry, no dice. I understand that, but tomorrow's game should be available as well as the games Mon, Tue and Wed.

The Sox are looking for RH relievers, they made a run at Kerry Wood last winter. He's signed very cheaply, wants to stay in Chicago and may approve the move across town for a couple of months.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 12:03 PM) Bought my tickets and parking pass for home opener. Hammer this out b****es. The NBA I can see, but the NFL................they can't lose any dates over money. It would cost way too much. There is no doubt in my mind you will be using your tickets and parking pass on time.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 11:53 AM) I like how Frolik said that Florida isnt a hockey town and thats why he likes it here. I don't think anyone would ever think Florida is a hockey town, or basketball town or baseball town or football town or even a town.

MLB Extra Innings is comp for a week I believe. I've got DirecTV and it starts on channel 720

He's only going to get better. The lack of patience many here have with young players is pretty funny considering many of the same people want the Sox to totally rebuild. Either the people are masochistic, or just love being miserable. Young guys usually struggle. Beckham will be a really good player some day.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 07:04 AM) I pray that he doesn't listen to Walker the rest of the way and just rolls with it like he did in 2009 with that natural instinctive swing. If he does it would not surprise me to see him get to .280 or so. I still want to see more bullets hit off his bat as I swear he hit more balls hard in his last 75 games in 2009 than he has in 214 games he's played in since That's how you can tell if anyone is listening to Walker. If they are hitting, they obviously are not. If they are in a slump, they hang on to his every word and do exactly as he says. If people that aren't around the team can figure that out so easily how is it the people associated with the team cannot? I just can't figure it out. Greg Walker obviously knows less about hitting than a typical 8 year old.

Hawk said fister.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 07:58 PM) http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/...ting-violations Shocking, just shocking. Tressel is a phony and a scumbag.

The bust with a big game.

My dad told me this afternoon the Sox would win today 5-2. I hope they win, but I don't want to hear about it for weeks. Someone has to score again.