Dick Allen

I'm pretty sure HE GONE

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 05:56 PM) Well lucky for Josh the season doesn't end in mid-September. And that .229/.283/.433/.716 line Josh had through September 14th as a 24 year old (before finishing the season with a 1.295 OPS over his final 56 PA) isn't far off from the .239/.299/.418/.717 line Crede put up as a 26 year old. Oh if only the season lasted from the beginning of June to mid September the .296/.337/.428/.765 line Brian put up over that exact same span in '06 would have earned him the starting gig in '07 and we never would have had to see Darin Erstad in a White Sox uniform. So the argument is evertime Crede came up big if he would have done something earlier it would have made his heroics mute, but Josh Fields tearing it up the final 2 weeks of Sept. 2007 in a battle for last place against the Royals is significant. In July and August 2006, BA hit over .300 combined. He had a tough Sept. and hit .257 post all star break. There was more to the BA story than performance or potential. Ozzie just didn't like him. He probably still doesn't, but at least he can tolerate him now and hopefully give him a fair shot.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 22, 2009 -> 01:49 AM) Hence the problem. The worshiping of a false idol, turning a baseball commoner into a baseball god. Some wonder why I "hate" Joe, I don't, I like him, I just can't stand it when people exaggerate a player's production/worth to this level and well, there's no other good discussion on here currently so I'm gonna make some Crede posts. You said earlier if Fields maintains his 2007 batting average (.244) and adds a little to his walk rate, he becomes a very valuable player. Crede is a lifetime .257 hitter. He has had some big moments and his glove, while you don't think its anything special, has been better than Fields. Wouldn't that make Crede a very valuable player during his White Sox career?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 06:39 PM) This post is the rebuttal (correctly) to all of those in this thread and in the White Sox fanbase who think Joe Crede is the 2nd coming of Mr. Jesus Christ. Crede did have many big hits in big spots late in games, but just because he had a lot of 7th to 9th inning hits that drove in runs and helped win games doesn't make him any better than, say, Jim Thome. There are A LOT of baseball games that are won (and lost) by events that occur in the first three innings. That is part of what makes baseball great is it's the one sport moreso than all others where you have to watch the entire game because the events that decide who wins and loses can happen at any time, as opposed to football and basketball where the game more often than not is decided in the 4th quarter. I would bet in many of the games where Joe Crede "saved our ass" with a big hit late, he was 0 for 4 or 1 for 5 or something like that heading into the at bat. If he had been 2 for 4 or 3 for 5, maybe we wouldn't have needed that "big hit." What makes it even funnier is the assumption that everytime Crede got a big hit he basically was making up for f***ing up earlier. Let's go back to the 2005 ALCS. Game 1 he was 1-4 with a homer. The Sox lost 3-2. Joe f***ed up. The one time up he was huge, but if he would have homered 4 times the Sox would have won. Game 2 when he doubled in Ozuna for the winner he was only 2-4 with 2 doubles. In the clincher he only drove in the first run. Then he homered to tie it up in the 7th. Then he drove in the go ahead and winning run in the 8th. I suppose if he would have done something in his second AB he wouldn't have had to come up big. Joe is not a HOFer. He was drafted by the White Sox. He played hurt, didn't complain, kept his mouth shut, and helped the White Sox win. I really find it odd people have a problem with him. He earned his paycheck. That can't be said about everyone.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 05:56 PM) Well lucky for Josh the season doesn't end in mid-September. And that .229/.283/.433/.716 line Josh had through September 14th as a 24 year old (before finishing the season with a 1.295 OPS over his final 56 PA) isn't far off from the .239/.299/.418/.717 line Crede put up as a 26 year old. Oh if only the season lasted from the beginning of June to mid September the .296/.337/.428/.765 line Brian put up over that exact same span in '06 would have earned him the starting gig in '07 and we never would have had to see Darin Erstad in a White Sox uniform. When Crede was 24 he put up some decent numbers too.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 04:26 PM) I fear that Fields is going to get a lot of undeserved hatred this season from a LOT of fans because he took Crede's spot. He's going to have to be perfect to gain a decent following. For a guy who on Sept. 14 2007 was hitting .228 with a .289 OBP, he got a lot of love last year. Everyone wanted Crede gone. I think even Crede's biggest fans realize it was time for the White Sox to move on. I don't think Fields is better. Hopefully Viciedo is.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 02:26 PM) Joe hit .248 last year and .239 in 2004 so if he somehow managed to get 476 AB .236 wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. We're comparing Fields to a hitter with a .306 career OBP and 5.8% (4.6% in 2006) walk rate, it shouldn't be too hard for Josh to top that. I don't know. When Fields was supposedly awesome, his OBP was .308. .303 for his career.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 01:51 PM) Not having to play Juan Uribe or Andy Gonzalez at the position for 60+ games will be nice. Pretty much all projections have Josh Fields putting up equal or better numbers than Joe next season over more ABs, I know this means nothing to you but it is the case. Fields' PECOTA numbers has him hitting .236 with 20 homers in 476 AB. If Crede did that, he would be horrible.. We aren't even talking defense.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 11:16 AM) As someone else said, I'm much more concerned with the possibility of the Twins acquiring Juan Cruz. With the sign and trade supposedly being available, I'm surprised KW hasn't tried to make something happen. He has been interested in Cruz before.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 10:49 AM) This is good news for the White Sox. If Josh Field needed any more motivation to perform, here it is. With the rivalries between these two teams all Fields will have to do is pick up the paper to see the inevitable Crede comparison breathing down his neck, and with the type of personality Fields has this could be exactly what he needs to get his ass in gear. If Josh Fields needs more motivation to perform, its time to look elsewhere for a 3b.

$2.5 million guaranteed. Up to $7 million with incentives.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 10:51 AM) I never like seeing ex-White Sox players in Twins uniforms, especially one that helped us win it all back in 05. I honestly don't see Crede being real healthy on that turf of theirs. Maybe Minnesota will get the fever the White Sox had about acquiring Cleveland Indians players past their prime, except with ex-White Sox. I still think Crede can be a very good player if his back is alright. As far as the turf, its not the hard astroturf of years gone by.

Joe Crede helped the White Sox win the WS. He also was great in 2006 until September when his back gave out on him. 2007 was a lost season. 2008, he helped the White Sox win several games in April, just losing one may have meant no playoffs as it turned out, he tried to play hurt and couldn't go on anymore. If he is healthy, and the back is not causing him problems, he will be a big asset for the Twins. It was time for him to move on. He wasn't awesome as a White Sox. He wasn't a bum either. He was a better than average thirdbaseman overall who came up huge when the White Sox really needed him.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 18, 2009 -> 09:01 PM) It's just not that easy to forge documents anymore so I'd think that the proper age is on there. Jose Contreras is officially barely 37. Anything is possible.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 20, 2009 -> 11:34 PM) Which might have been nothing...of course, Cabrera could file a grievance, but it's arguable that he would win (like the Todd Walker situation I think in SD?) The fact that nobody really has come up with a realistic (at least from his POV) contract proposal would seem to offer pretty strong evidence that it wouldn't be obvious he would make the team (over Alexei Ramirez as the starting SS). If you were KW, it would be easy to make the argument that Ramirez's OPS, power, speed (Cabrera is declining in that area, Ramirez is in his prime), etc., would make him the obvious pick, despite the overhype about Cabrera's Gold Glove (supposedly) caliber defense. The only way Cabrera could make an argument through the union would be if he contended he had been offered a shot at the starting 2B position, and Getz/Lillibridge/Nix were selected over him, but even that's tenuous with so many teams going with youth/affordability over veterans. Of course, useless speculation...but I am glad the Twins didn't pick him up, I think he would have been a real thorn in our side as leader of that infield. Luckily, it's just Punto. Cabrera theoretically could have come back, but it would have virtually assured the trade of either Dye, Jenks or Konerko. Viciedo is/was essentially a replacement for Swisher's money in the 2009 budget, although he will be infinitely cheaper in 2010/11/12 than Nick. Swisher's contract has gone from a "bargain" to albatross in a short period of time. It will be interesting to see if the Braves go over Swisher, Nady or possibly Garret Anderson/Edmonds (or a the full-blown youth movement). Of all the players, Garland, Wolf, Hudson, Abreu, Cabrera and Varitek were the ones (along with Juan Cruz) who ended up suffering the most...with Raul Ibanez coming out smelling like a rose, along w/ the Yankees' triumvirate. If the White Sox released him, they still would have had to pay him either 20% or 25% of his contract, which would have been $2 million minimum. I can't remember which. Walker got released after winning arbitration. He did file a grievance that went nowhere due to the fact he hit about .100 in spring training, and signed a minor league contract with Oakland after he was released. Its pretty much a lock if OC accepted arbitration and played poorly enough the White Sox released him before the season started, he would easily get a major league contract with someone, probably, and ironically, Oakland. A grievance would have been filed, and I think, especially if OC had a similar season to 2008, he would have had an excellent chance to re-coup most, if not all of the money lost due to the release. Bottom line is if he is about the money, he screwed up. I still don't understand the entire concept of sitting out until after the draft. I can't see how that is going to open purse strings unless the Yankees need a SS or 2B. He should sign with Oakland before their offer goes to minimum. OC has supposedly dropped his price to $5.5 million. Still, no takers.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Feb 21, 2009 -> 02:11 AM) Jermaine was interviewed in the locker room yesterday Says he wants to finish his career in Chicago I hope we can sign him to DH next year, he's my favorite player on the team and he seems to be very emotionally attached to the white sox organization Hopefully we can work out a deal in the 2009-2010 offseason but I'm not holding my breath Withe the market what it is now, I'm 100% certain JD's mutual option will be passed on by the White Sox.He will get his $1 million buyout. Depending on how these guys perform, its not out of the realm of possibility he and/or Thome come back in 2010 at a very reduced rate.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 20, 2009 -> 02:54 PM) Yeah, talk about your all-time backfires...of course, he wasn't the only one to do so this offseason... Just goes to show you how crazy the market can be in a relatively short span of time...on both ends of the spectrum. It was total ignorance on his and/or his agent's part. It was quite obvious what was going to happen. Hudson gets $3.4 million guaranteed and $4.6 million in incentives. Cabrera might be lucky to get what the Sox would have owed him if he took the arb and they released him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 20, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) The chairman is worried about that exact thing. http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/18/magazines/...seball.fortune/ He's sitting pretty with Dye, Thome and Dotel, MacDougal coming off the books. Also Vaciedo will be $4 million cheaper not paying his bonus. Well over $30 million right there.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 20, 2009 -> 02:07 PM) And with that being said, the Arizona Republic is reporting that the Dodgers have come to terms with Orlando Hudson. Looks like any recent interest in Cabrera was just a ploy to lure O-Dog to LA. Every dog has its day. OC got used and abused by the Dodgers to entice Hudson to sign. I think that leaves Oakland and its $5 million offer, which is probably shrinking as I type. He supposedly is looking for $1 more than Renteria for 2009. He'll need to buy a lottery ticket.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Feb 19, 2009 -> 03:23 PM) He's certainly not a good offensive player. All the Thunder will ask of him is to guard to opposition's best PG/SG/SF and let Westbrook and Durant concentrate on their offense. And he's an upgrade on Kyle Weaver, so for a late 1st rounder, I don't mind the deal at all for the Thunder. If they draft Griffin and can sign a good center to rotate with Kristic next season, they're a serious contender for the playoffs next season. If the Bulls use the draft pick to actually select a player, it will be nothing for nothing, but financial savings. I think they will either trade it on draft night when someone who a team has its eye on slips or throw it in as a trade kicker, whatever it is, its better than paying Thabo $2 million a year to do what he does especially since there really aren't any minutes for him anymore.

Getting anything for Thabo is an accomplishment. He can't play.

Marc Stein: Looks like we have a fairly significant three-way deal that has been submitted to the league just before the trade deadline. NBA front-office sources tell ESPN.com that Orlando is acquiring Rafer Alston from Houston to fill the void created at point guard by Jameer Nelson's shoulder injury. The Rockets will receive Memphis guard Kyle Lowry, Orlando forward Brian Cook and perhaps two other minimum-salaried players to make the finances work. The Grizzlies will receive a first-round pick from Orlando.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 19, 2009 -> 02:07 PM) Plus they get another guy to take minutes away from Tyrus. I doubt Tim Thomas plays much if Tyrus can keep up with the improved play. Tyrus does get into foul trouble so its good to have another bigger guy around. With Rose, Gordon and Hinrich around and Thabo and Salmons playing a little 2 on the side, there is very little room for guards, so the roster is more balanced at the very least. Maybe a little better, but I hope they don't make the playoffs. I don't think it would serve a purpose.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 19, 2009 -> 01:50 PM) I am guessing if they brought back Thomas, that was all about Scott Skiles. We all know the guy had issues with players, and especially ones he felt weren't working hard enough. Thomas also fits right into the rotation, as he can score a bit. Seems your right: I played with Tim for a couple years and had him in Phoenix. I didn't have any problem with him. I enjoyed playing with him," Bulls coach Vinny Del Negro said. "That was a long time ago. I'll sit down and talk to Tim, tell him what I expect from him, what his role is. I expect him to be professional and go do his job. He has the ability to help us." I'm fascinated they ate all that money because Skiles didn't like him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 19, 2009 -> 01:44 PM) I'm not sure it makes sense on its own either. Thomas is the Ugh we already know, I'm sure he's looking forwards to playing with the Bulls. James hasn't played since December and is out for the rest of the season with a Ruptured Achilles tendon, and I doubt he has a Contreras like work ethic to come back before next season starts. This move seems like rearranging parts that will never play for us unless it's tied to some other move that needed a smaller salary than Hughes. Maybe its just a trade to have some cold bodies on the bench in case of emergency. James will never play again supposedly. Thomas can stay home and be like Hughes. Roberson could be the extra body. I hope Pax makes another move today although I doubt it. I don't see the benefit of the Bulls squeaking into the playoffs this season except for the extra gate the team would like to have. Miss out and see if a miracle can happen again.