Dick Allen

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 17, 2007 -> 09:52 PM) Josh Fields will be our starting LF on opening day next year...i'm fairly confident in that. We'd have to hear about Crede having a really big setback before I change my mind on that. Our opening day OF next year is going to be Fields Owens Dye, and around the horn is going to be Crede...????...Richar...Konerko...AJ. The quality of this offseason, and whether or not we are a winning team next year, is going to be entirely determined IMO on what we get for Garland and whether or not we can fill that SS hole using him. There is no way it will be Fields in LF and Owens in CF. Anyway, I think you're screwed if you bet anyone on Owens in CF on opening day. I believe the Sox open in Cleveland, and Jerry isn't going to be the first batter CC Sabathia faces in 2008.

My wife makes the bed everyday, and quite well I might add. She used to ask me to do it once in a while, but my effort was admittedly half assed. I don't ever get that request anymore. I should try that technique on a few other things.

While OJ is in the big house, will anyone be searching every golf course in America for the real killers?

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 17, 2007 -> 05:35 PM) I thought the booing of Magglio initially was just fine, and I felt the two situations were completely different. Magglio stabbed the White Sox fans in the back by not accepting a 4/$60 offer and then by getting rid of any possibility of him resigning with the Sox when he changed agents to Boras. Thome wanted to go back to Cleveland, and it was Cleveland who did not want him back; their offer absolutely paled him comparison to Philly's, and Jim would have been dumb not to accept it. If a Sox fan still held the same grudge against Maggs, then I'd agree completely with you I think the offer Magglio turned down was more like $48 million for 4 years, but I agree with Pratt. The reason Thome got/gets booed in Cleveland was because he took the money. If Cleveland had traded him, he would get a nice response. Magglio would never have been booed in USCF had he been traded to another team either. What would have been interesting is to see what the response to Robin Ventura would have been if the White Sox had made a legitimate effort into extending him. Thome left the season he hit 52 homers. Ventura played half a season when he left. The fact that he had the serious injury and was going to get a lot of money and Frank Thomas and Albert Belle were still around probably help mute any outrage. Albert Belle got a lot of boos when he returned with the Orioles. Of course, thats a whole different animal.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 16, 2007 -> 02:57 PM) Everything about the 2008 roster bothers me. I really think rebuilding is the right move, as there's too many holes to go out and fill via free agency. We have very little left in the minors to actually trade. They scary thing is there are several people with the White Sox who think they are very close to being very good again. I hope KW isn't one of them. I am encouraged that Ozzie spouted off relying on Fields, Owens, Richar and Gonzalez in 2008 to make meaningful contributions probably means last place.

Hawk blaming Gonzalez's problems on his rookie status. Please. He's been horrible. His throwing errors aren't because he's a rookie, its because he just isn't very good. It really is a toss up who the worst player in baseball is. Hall or Gonzalez.

Hawk really praising Saunders for shutting down the offense. The line-up is pathetic.

QUOTE(knightni @ Sep 14, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) .270 hitters with 20+ HRs don't deserve to be released though. Traded maybe, but not released. He was technically non-tendered. The Twins have the cheapest owner in sports, when you don't mention Bill Wirtz.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Sep 15, 2007 -> 06:51 AM) Fields played a fine game last night, both at the bat and in left. I was very impressed with his throw to nail Vlad, another time he ran down a liner I'm sure Pods would not have reached. He was into the game at the plate, he actually got a bunt down. I think he looks much better in LF than he did at 3B. Richar missed at least 3 plays. Two balls he didn't get to and one he didn't charge, almost getting Contreras run over. His bat may improve but the kid has not shown me he can play 2B in the majors. Owens didn't cover as much ground as I've seen him in the past and showed me his weak arm isn't getting better. A player with his limited offense had better get a lot better in the field to stick with a big club. Gonzalez made one good play and no mistakes on his other ones. Although he got a hit against Colon, Bootcheck made him look like a rookie league batter. Among the kids, Fields is the only long term major leaguer in my eyes. I was sitting behind the White Sox on deck circle last night. Fields did make the plays in LF, but he's shaky at best out there. Too bad they didn't start this earlier. I do think he's playing winter ball, so maybe he can get to adequate. One thing I did notice about him,when he's on deck and swinging, he does have a very short stroke. If he could ever take that stroke with him to the batter's box, his strikeouts would go down and his hit total would go up. That transition is easier said than done however.

It really is incredible Jim Thome has to be defended at all. He's done his job as well as anyone on the White Sox has done theirs since he's been here. I hope he hits one on the concourse tonight.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 13, 2007 -> 12:13 PM) Okay, this is the last time I talk about Schuerholz unless the Braves and specifically the Braves offseason is mentioned -- but when Schuerholz was with the Royals and they were a classy, well-respected organization with a recent world title win, he wasn't particularly happy due to a change in ownership so he was chatting with friends about what franchises in baseball had a great deal of potential if only someone came in and fixed them. Atlanta was the main one they mentioned, with Texas the other, and then he spoke to the man doing the hiring who said, "s***, you're interested in leaving for Atlanta? Why? That place blows!" and he said, "I think I can turn it around." He did. Kind of cool. I sort of wish Rick Hahn would leave for Pittsburgh and make that the next powerhouse. The Pirates are a good franchise with a great history and a beautiful ballpark in a lovely city, so I hope they eventually have an owner and management that are capable and willing to win. I've just always thought that the idea of leaving a good situation for a shaky one was one of the more interesting aspects of Schuerholz' move to Atlanta. But yeah, it's nice to have Hahn around. Would suck if he or Terry Ryan wound up on the northside of Chicago, though. There's no question in my mind, JS is the best GM in the game, maybe the best ever. But I don't think he could win for a sustained period in Pittsburgh the way the game is right now. He probably could build the team to go on a little run, but once his young guys start earning money and are eligible to be FA, he's going to lose them, unlike in Atlanta. He's not going to be able to bring in Greg Maddux. The game is a lot different now. In 1990, I believe the year JS left KC, the Royals had the highest payroll in baseball. The game is so different.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Sep 13, 2007 -> 04:06 PM) Would anyone trade the last ten years of Sox results with the Twin's results? I wouldn't. We see what he did in the free agent market the last two seasons. I'm not that impressed. So multiply those acquisitions ten fold with more money. Meh. I'm not saying KW is better, just saying I don't think he's the second coming where an organization should dump everything and follow. Perhaps if he had put together a team that won it all, then maybe . . . Obiously winning it all once trumps winning it all zero times. You do have to give the guy credit for having his team in position to win often. He did play with a shoestring budget, but money doesn't always make you even better GM, ask KW. Who knows, if the Twins spent more, maybe they draft Prior instead of Mauer. Maybe they hang on to AJP and don't get Nathan, Bonzer and Liriano. He did built it the right way, through the minor leagues. It took him a few seasons to get it going, but it was a good run after that.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2007 -> 09:26 AM) Too bad for Hahn, but good for the White Sox. He's a smart guy. He's going to wait for an opportunity that includes a legitimate chance to win. While being a GM is probably his goal, a couple years with his hands tied in Pittsburgh won't help him. He'd probably wind up getting canned and never getting another opportunity.

What's funny is people think Frank is having a good year, but Thome who has 6 more homers in 90 less ABs than Frank is "losing" power. He's also walked 12 more times.

Juan Uribe's 31 walks places him 4th on the team in that category. It is not Walker's fault the offense blows, it is definitely KW's as he apparently didn't consider the importance of being on base until recently.

Ozzie is never going to be fired by the White Sox. This extension pretty much confirms it. If he doesn't say anything too outrageous where they have to let him go and he wants to manage until JR dies, he will.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 02:09 PM) Sorry, just a slight memory mis-recollection. Compare Gavin Floyd's first 100-120 innings in the majors to Jake Westbrook's. Compare how old they were when they came up, and what their peripherals looked like. And then compare their stuff to one another's. Personally, I believe they are very similar. That's the comparison I would make, and have made for about the past month or two. Floyd's ERA is about 1.40 higher but Westbrook wasn't exactly Dwight Gooden. At that point most of Westbrook's appearances were out of the bullpen. Floyd's WHIP is higher and had allowed almost 3 times the homers. I wonder how many pitchers have as many major league innings under their belt as Floyd and have an ERA the same or higher. There can't be many. Maybe he will be good one day. I will be the first to admit I was wrong if it happens, but if the White Sox are counting on him for 2008 and saying they plan to contend,based on a couple of September starts, they are either fooling themselves or trying to fool their fans.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 02:09 PM) Sorry, just a slight memory mis-recollection. Compare Gavin Floyd's first 100-120 innings in the majors to Jake Westbrook's. Compare how old they were when they came up, and what their peripherals looked like. And then compare their stuff to one another's. Personally, I believe they are very similar. That's the comparison I would make, and have made for about the past month or two. Floyd's ERA is about 1.40 higher but Westbrook wasn't exactly Dwight Gooden. At that point most of Westbrook's appearances were out of the bullpen. Floyd's WHIP is higher and had allowed almost 3 times the homers. I wonder how many pitchers have as many major league innings under their belt as Floyd and have an ERA the same or higher. There can't be many. Maybe he will be good one day. I will be the first to admit I was wrong if it happens, but if the White Sox are counting on him for 2008 and saying they plan to contend, they are either fooling themselves or trying to fool their fans.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 01:44 PM) Gavin Floyd certainly seems like he could htrow 175+ innings next year. Lance Broadway threw 155 this year in the minors and is tacking on more in the majors. Egbert threw 160 innings last year and 155 this year. Haeger threw 150 this year and 180 last year between the minors and majors. Phillips threw 173 this year and is still going. If all you're asking about is innings eaters...on that we're loaded, which was the original question. The secondary question is...which ones of these guys can step up and be above average big league pitcher sin the next few years? That's the question we still have to answer. It could well be none of them...but at least we have a boatload of candidates. Big difference in pitching in the minors and majors. Also you've penciled Gavin Floyd for 175 innings next season. Please don't back off of it.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) They don't? I'd say the definitely have an organization filled with innings eaters. Heck, the Sox starters have pitched more innings than all but two other teams in baseball. How does that not indicate to you that they eat innings? The only mess in the pitching department is the half dozen crappy or inconsistent bullpen guys this team rolled out there from May through July (plus a couple guys out there now: Myers and Bukvich). They have no one in the minors you can expect to come in next year and pitch 175 innings, and I am ;the biggest Gio Gonzalez fan on this board. Danks ran out of gas after about 90 innings this season. Perhaps next year he will last longer, but I doubt he can double it. If Garland or Vazquez go or even Contreras that will be someone the last couple of years 200 innings were counted on. I think contreras is still a mess right now as is Danks as he is 0-7 with a 6.80 ERA his last 8 starts. Garland has not be very good his last 10 starts or so overall, and I think he will be gone so a rookie is going to fill in unless someone is acquired. That could be 60% of the rotation which is coming into 2008 ugly.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 01:16 PM) So Thome, Dye, Konerko, AJP... all terrible players, huh? Not having a bad year, just bad players? The problem is even when these guys put up great numbers, and I really don't know how you could expect bigger numbers collectively than what these guys provided in 2006, it wasn't nearly good enough. The pitching will be key. Somehow KW is going to have to fix the mess he has while peeling off a Garland or Vazquez. Its going to be difficult, because the Sox don't have an organization filled with innings eaters.

I do think the Marlins took Adrian Gonzalez #1 in 2000 based on signability. I'm pretty sure he was projected to go in the first round but much lower. You look at that 2000 draft and scratch your head. The first round was pretty bad. Gonzalez actually may be the best player.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 12:07 PM) Nice cherry-picking, again. 2 years after? I once posted in here (I need to find the post) a list of how teams did the YEAR after they won a WS. As I recall, a significant number played below .500, and I don't think more than half made the playoffs the next year. So looking at 2 years out, this team collapsed, and that is actually not as fast as a number of teams collapsed. What I stated was a fact and it has to do with this season since it was 2 years ago the White Sox won it all. It is not cherry picking. I also stated a few teams were below .500 the season after they won but bounced back. It actually was on a Fox or ESPN broadcast back in April or May. I also pointed out it depends how you look at it when it was posed this was one of the biggest collapes ever. I actually posted my fact earlier this year when I thought the odds were the White Sox would have a decent second half based on it.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 11:49 AM) So, you're basically saying that this team fell apart quicker and worse than any other Championship team in history? It depends how you look at it, but its up there.

A question I have is why aren't guys like Masset and Aardsma now with the team. They would seem to have a better shot at the 2008 roster than Bukvich or Myers, and you never know you may have a 15 inning game and probably can use one.