Dick Allen

The fact is, rebuilds erode the fan base. It's no guarantee they come back. I know there are people on this board who made excuses for fans not showing up in 2012 when the Sox were winning. It was because they were so smart, they knew the team would fade in September. Really, you don't go to watch a team that has been in first place nearly every day of the season in July, because you just know that they will fade in September? It was preposterous. The fan base has eroded. It's going to take something more than a 84 win season to win them back. And that doesn't appear like it will happen in 2019.

There are no unreasonable expectations. Read KW's quotes. What they need is available now. If they don't land them, they have failed yet again. Why would replacing them now be tearing down what they have done? The same players would be there. Let someone who could actually execute their plan take over.

Why, the same players would still be here. Hahn has already showed he can't make a 74 win team, even an 80 win team. At some point, the Sox may be a 74 win team. JR said when he fired Himes, he can get you from A to B but not to C. Hahn was a B, never got to C, now is at A. I would thing A to C is harder than B to C, and he couldn't get anywhere near C when he was at B.

Hahn has been the GM for 6 years and the assistant GM for about a decade before that. KW has been a decision maker since he took over a 95 win team with what was the #1 ranked farm system in baseball in 2001. There is probably no other team in baseball that would have even considered for a second having them lead a rebuild.

Well the workers in this case would have been responsible for that mold.

The thing is, it can be changed. It won't, but it can and should. If acquiring Machado AND/or Harper, I put and in caps because they leaked to Nightengale, they wouldn't mind both, doesn't happen, would mean their plan has gone awry. It's time for new blood. The team will still have the same players. The Blackhawks weren't ruined switching out Tallon for Bowman, which was pretty much in the middle of their rebuild.

He also was in his age 25-26 season, so it's not that unusual. Theoretically, his best seasons are still ahead.

Maybe, but it's like hiring someone to remodel your bathroom, and having them screw it up, but you like them so you have them re model your kitchen, and they screw it up. Your house is so screwed up, you decide to tear it down and rebuild it. JR called the guys who messed up his bathroom and kitchen, and told them they were the best people to build him a house.

Not at a total rebuild but they were given plenty of chances during their tenure, and except for one season, it was one mistake after another.

Not really. This stuff really doesn't take over my life like it used to. But I do have an opinion.

Rosenthal hasn't tweeted anything for a while. He must be on vacation. I think a lot of these guys have sources that aren't available. I am surprised no one is taking a shot saying Manny is signing with Philadelphia or the White Sox. I read a New Jersey paper the other day before the Clark thing and he made it Yankees favorite, Phillies, White Sox and he said distant 3rd. But he also said he had Corbin to the Nats distant third until they blew away the competition.

I think it's ridiculous these dopes were given the chance to do the rebuild. They already have shown their incompetence. We will wait for next year's free agents, and get shutout and say well he really wanted to be a Yankee or a Cub or a Red Sox or a Dodger, nothing could have been done. Oh well, maybe Yolmer will dump some water on his head again. Why doesn't anyone have their heart set to be a White Sox? We know why, it's because they suck.

Roland Hemond once spoke about when the White Sox signed Carlton Fisk. He wanted 3 years. Hemond told JR that he figured Fisk had 2 years left, but the Sox were trying to do what they supposedly are trying to do now, and establish themselves as a player in MLB, so they wound up giving him the 3 years figuring the last one would be the tax they paid. Of course he played 13 more years. And JR pretty much had instant success with a team that had been a doormat for years. I don't understand why they got away from that.

None of them have shown sustained success in the minor leagues yet. I have bought Rick Hahn's BS for way too long. Not anymore. He's been the GM for 6 seasons, and the team is 134 games under .500, and most likely is headed for another rough one. But hey, they are rebuilding. They weren't winning when they were going for it with guys like Sale, and Q and Eaton signed to team friendly deals. How will this be any different?

And if they can't offer what it will take now, when will they?

How can you say that? If, and it's a huge if, Cease and Kopech turn into Sale and Q, how is the rotation better than when they won 78 games? Eaton was a 6.0 WAR corner OF. If Eloy is one, great. Maybe they get back to that level with a lot of these guys working out. But sustained success? That's crazy at this point.

It's time the White Sox attempt to make themselves one of those teams, instead of just trying. Making excuses shows you have accepted mediocrity at best. If you want to be the best, you have to act like the best. Corbin wanted to play for the Yankees as well. But the Nats offered him $40 million more. He's a Nat. It's OK for the Yankees because they have others that will sign with them, despite guys like Stanton getting booed out of the building.

Bah Humbug is right, but you do make several good points. I also LMAO at any poster who thinks Alonso's $9 million is no big deal, but scoff at offering Manny $40 million a year vs. $35 million. WTF? But if they miss out on these guys it will be one of 2 things. Either they are not willing to offer the most money, which may someday make them think sweet talk really doesn't work with top free agents. Or they offered the most money by a reasonable amount but the perception of the team they run is so bad, they don't want to play here, even if the manager speaks Spanish.

I would imagine so. The problem is, if they don't improve much, and take a swing at next year's free agents, they will have the same problem as this year. Bad team, not much interest, more desirable destinations. Hopefully, Moncada and Eloy, and TA can all take a leap forward, and Gio, Rodon, and Lopez do the same, and Cease continues improving, and Dunning puts his elbow issues behind him, so at least they will have a little more to hang their hat on.

The Sox have to dare to be different. Try something new. Do whatever it takes to sign one of these guys. Bill Veeck said that paying stars wouldn't kill you, it was paying for mediocrity, which seems to have been a White Sox staple for years.

You can say that, but they have finished in first place twice. And espn had them with the 3rd highest payroll in baseball. And it is only going higher.

Look at what the rebuilds did to the Indians fan base, and they have actually had some on field success. White Sox attendance has decreased from the previous season every year beginning in 2007 except for one, when they slashed ticket prices and there was a modest increase. If they don't start winning soon, the people who found some other way to spend their time while they sucked, will be less inclined to come back. I do think their public acknowledgement of their pursuits will have a more negative impact than when they usually strike out with little comment. I think there were a very high percentage of White Sox fans who thought at least one of these guys was going to be a White Sox. If that doesn't happen, a lot is going to have to go right in 2019 for the trend not to continue.

So what. The White Sox have to break the ice or be the franchise they always have been. Maybe someday, some player will actually want to play for the White Sox instead of one of the other teams that are always interesting. You aren't going to have sustained success without gigantic payrolls. And we aren't signing the checks. So you either want the Sox to break the bank and sign one of these guys or think the way they have gone about being "all in" is satisfactory. Peaking at 78 wins sucks for me.

Spend it on players not as good.

But why not? It is $5 million a year. The Sox have to decide if they want to be with the big boys or not. If the goal is sustained winning and multiple championships , that cannot be done with a mid market payroll. The best they could do if they aren’t going to throw a ton of money at it, is a run like Cleveland is doing now, or Detroit had or a couple of years like KC. But those aren’t all that sustained and usually quickly followed by prolonged awfulness.