Dick Allen

Kris Dunn attending to a personal matter. Cam Payne starting. The tank begins.

Victor was strictly a DH and put up a 121 OPS+. Palka, with all his hype is 111. i have also stated elsewhere on this board, Palka did surprise a bit, but strikes out a ton, doesn’t get on base very much, and probably won’t last. I also have mentioned scrub was a Fangraphs term twice. Maybe the third time is a charm.

Victor was 1.6. Palka was 0.7. Scrub, as I mentioned, was Fangraphs term. Why can’t you just play straight? Why must you try to spin everything with deception. The funny thing about it is it is even if you don’t agree with me, which you obviously don’t, your conclusion should be exactly the same. These people thought they could win. You said it was impossible for anyone. So , they have to be idiots, and need to be replaced. I just think they could have won with a better approach and execution.

Bill Self May have a little problem with some of the things coming out of this ongoing trial.

Absolutely. If you multiple it by 1.5 that’s still a 1.0 WAR in 660 appearances. That still comes up scrub. Fangraphs term, not mine.

You are saying no one could have put a winning team on the field. That is crazy talk. Oakland traded crappy prospects for guys who turned out decent. They didn't have a top of the line farm system. In fact, some of their guys are ex White Sox.

Right. It may have been impossible for these guys with the restrictions they put on them, but to say no one could have done better is crazy. Larry Himes would have had the balls to tell JR, we aren't winning a WS with Jimmy Rollins at SS, Dioner Navarro behind the plate, and Mat Latos in the rotation.

Other teams are able to do it. The White Sox haven't show that.

Eaton's "collapse" was injury related, and was a blown out knee on a wet base hustling one out. He may have gotten injured if he had stayed with the White Sox some other way, but it isn't like a pitcher blowing out his elbow. That was a freak, and has led to more problems. He's still pretty good when he plays.

Of course you would agree. You can't ever find fault with JR, KW or RH. Granted, some of the criticism is a bit meatheaded. But there is some that is warranted. And the record, the draft picks, the trades, the free agent choices....a lot of it leaves a lot to be desired.

They also spent money on guys like Adam Dunn. Jeff Keppinger. If it is as impossible as you suggest to add good players other than the draft, the White Sox are going to be bad a very long time.

Color me shocked this post was coming. The prospects have sucked. But they have always managed to get major league players for many of them. They have made some poor decisions. Balta's argument suggests the only way to add to your team is via free agency.

So the G League is going to offer potential one and dones a $125k contract. Skip college, turn pro,but not the NBA for at least a year. Make some cash. They can hire agents, and get endorsements.

It wasn't a high bar to get over. From Jim Callis: After hitting the jackpot in four straight years with Jack McDowell, Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas and Alex Fernandez from 1987-90, the White Sox experienced one of the worst first-round droughts in Draft history. They had 20 first-rounders from 1991-2009 and turned them into 14 big leaguers, none better than Kip Wells and Gordon Beckham. Wells and Beckham have combined for 15.4 Wins Above Replacement, while the other dozen have totaled -4.2.

I agree. People are excited about Daniel Palka. He hits some balls really hard and really far. But, according to fangraphs own rule of thumb chart, his 0.7 fWAR translates to scrub. Scrub0-1 WARRole Player1-2 WARSolid Starter2-3 WARGood Player3-4 WARAll-Star4-5 WARSuperstar5-6 WARMVP6+ WAR

My point is if you are going to go for it, go for it. You dive into the pool, don't just stick your toes in. They weren't nearly aggressive enough. It was not impossible to compete. They weren't totally committed. If they were, they would have had actual guys who should play well, not guys you hoped played well. Dioner Navarro, starting catcher?

Less than $7 million is the budget for a starting SS and starting pitcher for a going for it ballclub? You are making my point for me. And just remember, if and when these young guys ever get good , the guys that brought you these clowns to fill in holes will be doing it again.

Is that why they could only come up with James Shields, because they only had Fernando Tatis Jr. to offer? Hahn's best effort included Mat Latos and jimmy Rollins. They weren't properly committed. H r.

He was a DH. The WAR is going to be a bit supressed. They had guys they could trade. Somehow Semien, Bassit, Phegley, Micah Johnson, Trayce Thompson, got guys major league guys who were supposed to be big time players. Didn't quite work out that way.

Wild card run in 2020 if Kopech wasn't hurt? you have been saying 102 wins for months.

Year 2 was pretty good. And I never said you can avoid busts. When you copy and pasted, you happened to leave that part out. Funny how you work.

If your memory is serving you correctly, you will also remember I said never to 4 years. One thing the Sox could have done is paid Mark Buehrle what the Marlins paid him. 2012 could have been different. Maybe then they don't make the Samardizja mistake. They spent money on Adam Dunn. Bad move. Detroit actually wanted him them. They signed Victor instead. Make those switches, and already it's a much brighter outlook. Mistakes, every GM will make. Theo blames the hitting coach, and he's the genius who signed Darvish, Chatwood, and Morrow, and actually had people believing the first two may just be part of the greatest rotation of all time.

The White Sox had Sale, Q, and Eaton signed cheaply. Abreu's contract was pretty fair. They got the money to sign guys because their management made a commitment to really try to win, and their owner was getting up there, had a lot of money he would never spend, so he signed off. I don't know where you come up with Victor Martinez. You seem to use him as a talking point, and you are the only one who has mentioned him.

in 2006 Verlander was 17-9 3.63 ERA 4.35 FIP. The Sox had Chris Sale. And Jose Quintana. In 2006 Curtis Granderson at 25, and the amazing Chris Shelton at 26 were the only 2 Tiger regular position players under 29. It wasn't the tank that got them there.

Look at the 2005 vs 2006 Tigers. You can win. Teams stil increase win totals pretty drastically. The problem is when you pick up guys like Javy Vazquez and Jeff Samardzija, and think, these are 5.0 WAR pitchers, that will be more wins. Then look again and realize they always put up big WAR numbers, but rarely actually have big seasons. Vazquez was great for the Sox when they sucked. When they were good, horrible. Samardzija sucked, yet his WAR was still good. Something about the Sox defense. Looks like everywhere he goes, his team does him in. What no one wanted to mention, was the biggest defensive problem when he was pitching was Jeff S. himself.