Dick Allen

It seems Frazier thinks its the HR derby every AB. It works out fine sometimes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 02:00 PM) Last year they didn't come into the season thinking they were a world series contending team. Signing Zobrist was pricey but sensible for a world series contending team. It's the opposite of counting on Avisail Garcia and getting burned when he isn't a contributor - they weren't going to risk something like that derailing their season and that makes sense. They're trying to win a world series. Correct, but to compare Baez and Avi as prospects is beyond ridiculous. Baez was a top 10 prospect in the game. Top 5 by many. Most teams don't sign a guy or guys that could keep that prospect blocked for several years. If Schwarber was around, he probably plays even less. I doubt Theo was anticipating year ending injuries the first week of the season. All I am saying is if they were sold on him being a great player, they don't acquire blockage. They create a spot for him whether they are trying to win a WS or not. Or if they think he will initially struggle , they may sign some sort of stopgap. Not a guy like Zobrist. He certainly didn't spend much money on his bullpen. I don't look at that part of the team as say this looks like the bullpen of a WS winner.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) I think it's very clear - they wanted to win the world series this year and were smart enough to realize that relying on 23 year olds who haven't proven anything and have a long way to go is a great way to sabotage that. They relied on young guys last year, they relied on young guys this year. They must not be as high on them as they want everyone to think. Signing Zobrist to the contract they gave him is curious if Baez is half the player they try to pass him off to be, and they have no intention of trading.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 01:33 PM) Saw this on another web site and thought it was interesting. Just wanted to pass it along. The comments/ summery are the original posters: "Stoney was interviewed by Rongey and Bernstein, Tuesday afternoon show on the Score.. He didn't hold back when asked about where he thinks the Sox are, where they are headed, etc 1) he basically said Robin blew it by sending Robertson out there cold, on 9 days rest on the 7/18 game 2) the Sox are kidding themselves if they think they can acquire hitters and position players from their prospects and mid level free agents to compete for a postseason spot while the "core" is intact, over the next couple of years..the offense as it stands, is no where near the caliper you need to realistic think you have a shot at the postseason, this, or next year 3) he said he knows for a fact JR wants to win...badly... And for that to happen, he's going to have to make some "uncomfortable" decisions and do "whatever it takes" 4) He thought it was a slim to none chance JR is selling .. But given JR's age, he might have to think outside of the box, citing the poor record from 2006 to present and consider, FO personnel changes, if need be 5) there's Teams out there with great farms, and near ready prospects, who need pitching. So don't necessarily shop Sale and Quintana, but listen to all offers. Especially if the budget isn't there for the el primo free agents." Mark If he really said Robin blew it sending Robertson out there, I have no respect for Steve Stone. During the game, he said Robertson should be strong, but might have a little problem with control. And most of these comments don't mesh with the others.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 01:14 PM) I would expect his defensive value to go up playing just one position. I know there are some intricacies regarding player value adjustment based on position, but don't most organizations prefer their top players get more at bats? The fact that Baez has improved without everyday at bats is remarkable. He is facing RHP about 67% of the time vs. 80% or so an everyday player would face them. He is .245/.268/.390 vs. RHP. Defensively, I have no idea, but as an everyday player I think his offensive numbers per AB drop a bit. Still young, still improving, so who really knows what the future holds. He could be great, he could suck, he could be average. What puzzles me is if the Cubs were so sold on him, why did they put so many blocks into his playing time on the roster. Something there doesn't add up IMO.

He also has his spots picked for him. If he was playing every day, his production on a per game basis probably takes some sort of hit.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 12:11 PM) This is what I wrote: "While a BP fastball, thrown from a shorter distance, may approximate the reaction time, the speed, at which the pitch is traveling is vastly different. Major League hitters have the bat speed to catch up to high 90's pitches. However, their eyes require some adjustment to pick up the ball, if they have just been looking at pitches traveling 70 miles an hour." Perhaps you missed the point. Finding guys who could throw fast balls, from the mound, would not be a difficult challenge. I'm sure that there are plenty of failed prospects, who could perform that function. Yes it would be a difficult challenge. An impossible challenge. Every day throwing hundreds of pitches. Plus they would have to be somewhere near the plate. Guys that throw in the 90s with good control usually are on rosters. Failed prospects failed for a reason.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 08:31 PM) You've done an impressive job rallying more fans to this HoF manager and irreplaceable front office. At this rate, the White Sox won't even have any lemonade stands open the final two months. Ironically, you argued a lot more than most around here for Alex Gordon this offseason. Great call on that one. That's,who I wanted. Of course you were giddy when your Royals brought him back. So I guess you were wrong.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 08:27 PM) Do you have 2012 and 2013 pitch fx data? His fb was higher velocity in early 2014. Look at fan graphs. It isn't hard. You are wrong again. Ice throws harder now than 2012 and 2013. n fact, when he signed, fangraphs had an article about him and his 92 mph fastball. Maybe once in a while you can link your made up numbers. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/david-rober...trange-arsenal/

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) Avila and Jackson made the playoffs four consective seasons. Shields in 2008 and 2014...in the World Series. Robertson with the Yankees when he could throw 96-98. Cabrera with the Giants. Robertson never threw 96-98. In fact he is throwing as hard now as he ever has.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 06:09 PM) 698 ops for Parra, 638 ops for Avisail Garcia. I guess now you aren't into the advanced metrics. But that OPS Parra is putting up in Colorado has to be worth the $8 million you wanted to pay him. Unfortunately I don't think anyone in baseball is ever going to read any of your realtime ideas and offer you the GM job. I doubt anyone would let you generally manage a lemonade stand.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) I'm not sure a team's market determines whether $46M is spent on a closer. Isn't it more about the competitive state of that team or who is capable on their roster (no matter what their salary is)? For example...Philly is one of the larger markets but they do not have a $46M closer because they aren't that good. Many big market teams do have an expensive closer because their team warrants one. But many large market teams don't--K-Rod is $3.5M in Detroit, Harris is 514K for Houston, Mauer is the minimum in SD. Let's not forget everybody's favorite Cubs--$544K for Rondon. Market may be an independent variable to closer cost. They had one until halfway through last season.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) Here's a concept. I'll just throw this out there. Tell me what you think How about the organization start operating like a big market franchise, instead of a company softball team, and maybe all the second guessing be dramatically reduced? Isn't spending $46 million on a closer a big market move?

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:51 PM) Your wafer thin argument doesn't hold, but nice try. I don't have to try. You already lost. Your standard, one track mind post doesn't work here, but keep making yourself look bad.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:21 PM) LOL - oh, so NOW you believe the Forbes list. Earlier today you were very dismissive of their information, but now you are citing it because you think it somehow defends your wrong position on this matter. Pick a side and stick with it, wouldja!! Not necessarily. I really don't know but the guy's net worth shot up over $1 billion in a year. I guess the big money kicked in on year 24 of the lease. You,really are making a fool of yourself now. Nothing about the Bulls being worth $2.3 billion, more than double the Sox even with the lease that guarantees you billions, has anything to do with JR's net worth.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) LOL - boy, you'll throw anything against the wall and hope it'll stick, won't you? This is one of your better or weaker attempts, depending on how you look at it. Let me spell it out for you - 25 years of getting all of the revenues with practically none of the expenses associated with a Major League Baseball stadium is going to go a long ways towards establishing billionaire status in this world. A long ways! Gotta hand it to the 'ol SOB - he knew what he was doing back in the '80s when he pulled this scheme off with the new stadium. He's a billionaire today as a result. I know you will refuse to admit you are wrong, but here is something explaining the Forbes list and explaining how JRs net worth skyrocketed, not due toa 25 year old lease, but on the sale of the Clippers. Looking at the Internet before the sale his net worth was estimated between $280 million and $350 million. http://www.magazine.org/industry-news/pres...lionaires-issue

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) Their bullpen is average right now. Trading away Hochevar will make their bullpen a weak point. With their starting pitching the way it is, that's an awful move to make. At the All Star break, I believe their rotation was 29th in IP. Only Cincinnati was worse and it was real close. A couple of post seasons and that will probably take it's toll on their bullpen moving forward.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) I don't necessarily want to trade sale, but I'd argue that trading Quintana/robertson/jennings/frazier would get us to the playoffs faster than trying to add with an organization that: - Has limited farm resources that people want (hey look over at Cleveland where they are legitimately able to add Andrew Miller. We would struggle to add an average CFer) - Has a virtually exhausted payroll. But this is the point where Hahn expected the reserves from the recommitment to the draft/farm to pay off. But here we are, the expense of adding ML starters came at the cost of all depth, and still requires upgrades. Bad CF, the worst DH in baseball (not looking that up but I'm sure it's close to true), terrible catcher situation, zero SP depth, top heavy bullpen. You punt now so you can get a wave of young talent at once, so you don't end up with 1 superstar on a weak roster that we have currently. Danks is coming off the books next year. They are always thought to be broke, but do add payroll from time to time. They were in on Gordon and Cespedes, and Tanaka a few years ago. There is money someplace. As far as Andrew Miller, he could have been had for $9 million or so a year. In the Sox sign Duke thread, there were people who stated they would rather have Duke than Miller. They have seemed reluctant to go bold. The half assed stuff has continued to burn them and they go back to it. Maybe something will change there.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) http://www.forbes.com/profile/jerry-reinsdorf/ I doubt JR gave Forbes any information regarding his finances. Whether or not he is a billionaire we really don't know. Not even his partners know how much of the White Sox he owns. I don't know about the Bulls but considering they are now valued at $2.3 billion, it's probably safe to assume he has a ton of money on paper. I would imagine most of us would like to trade bank accounts with him as well, but that is an estimate which may be accurate and may not be accurate.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Under the (sweetheart lease) deal, the Sox didn't have to pay a fee for use of the stadium until 2008. In 2015, that fee amounted to about $1.6 million. The Sox also must pay a fee on each ticket sold in excess of 1.93 million in paid attendance. Since 2008, the Sox have paid that fee only in 2010, when games drew 2.2 million fans. However, the Sox were allowed to apply a credit based on the taxes the team paid that year, reducing the ticket fee payment from $455,974 to $95,531. "The White Sox didn't have that much of an incentive to really pack the place," Sanderson said. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sox-...0521-story.html Before sweetheart lease deal = Reinsdorf NOT a billionaire. 25 years later after state subsidization per sweetheart lease terms = Reinsdorf net worth of $1.3 billion So as you can see, you are right - Reinsdorf is all about the money, if you care to pay attention to the details of the sweetheart lease deal he got rammed down the taxpayers' throats back in 1988, and from which he's been reaping the benefits BIG TIME for the past 25 years. But because he gets subsidized for low attendance, he could easily go in for a full rebuild and his pocketbook would never know the difference. Amazing what little tidbits of information you find lying in the details! His billionaire status if true doesn't have much to do with the lease. The guy who bought the Clippers made JR a billionaire on paper. But I guess that was a detail you wanted to ignore.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 01:52 PM) If the Sox decided to truly sell - so trading Sale, Q, Eaton, Abreu, Frazier, Melky, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Duke - they'd probably walk away with far and away the best farm system in baseball. And then it would be a complete roll of the dice on whether it would work or not. Exactly. People were excited about Avi Garcia. People were excited about Courtney Hawkins. People were excited about Matt Davidson. Obviously some of the guys the Sox could get back for their better players are better prospects, but those guys totally bust or are mediocre players as well. Unless it's a guy who is going to be leaving your team in the next year or 2 and you really have no realistic chance to compete, I don't understand trading a guy like Sale hoping that what you get is a superstar one day. You already have that.

If Hahn trades Sale for near ready prospects and he goes on like most expect and a couple of the prospects fail, despite the calls for rebuild, prospects, prospects,prospects, it will be fun to read what a fool he was to make the trade. Just remember, having a highly ranked farm system doesn't mean years upon years of winning. Just check out the Twins.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) Well, that has always been conventional baseball wisdom. However, as a counter argument, think about this: Conventional baseball wisdom also asserts that it is easier to hit a pitcher, the second or third time through the lineup. That notion is based upon the concept that the hitter can begin to get accustomed to what the pitcher is throwing. If that's true, how does hitting BP fastballs, from a shorter distance, off the mound, help the hitter to get "accustomed" to anything?. It takes the hitter's eye a little while to get used to the speed of the ball. While a BP fastball, thrown from a shorter distance, may approximate the reaction time, the speed, at which the pitch is traveling is vastly different. Major League hitters have the bat speed to catch up to high 90's pitches. However, their eyes require some adjustment to pick up the ball, if they have just been looking at pitches traveling 70 miles an hour. Several years ago, in my 50's, we owned a Atec Casey, Pro pitching machine. The boys used to take a lot of batting practice. I couldn't resist and spent many hours, for several years, hitting with the family. I didn't have strong enough hands to catch up to the fastest pitches, but did pretty well with the off speed stuff, including the curve balls and sliders. What originally got me thinking about the subject of the article, to which I referred, was that I noticed how hard it was for my eyes to adjust to the faster pitches, after looking at off speed stuff. I could eventually see a 90 mile an hour fast ball, on any given day, but not until seeing several of them, especially after seeing a lot of slower pitches. So, while my lack of strength and bat speed made it difficult to hit the "heaters," my eyes could at least get used to the higher velocity pitches, but not immediately. Each new session required seeing several fastballs, before my eyes could pick it up. I've spoken to lots of guys who have played baseball, and they agreed with my observation. In much the same way, after looking a several fast balls, a curve ball almost appeared to be traveling in slow motion. It was hard to wait on those pitches, which seemed to take forever to reach the plate. I found them very easy to hit. Of course, I knew they were coming, so I was able to keep my front shoulder in, and not "bail" on the balls that broke from inside, into the strike zone. The eyes had to adjust to the speed, in either case. FYI, 70 MPH from 46 feet is the equivalent of 92 MPH from regular distance. You would absolutely kill your pitching staff if you had them throw BP like a game.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 07:39 PM) I think for Sale and Quintana they could bring back two MLB ready impact young players (Jackie Bradley Jr., Betts, Joc Pederson, Corey Seager some names as examples) then six near ready studs (Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, etc. from Boston. Just to name a few) and then a few very young prospects that are a few years away. That's just a ball park of what they'd need to get back. Truth is Hahn and the front office got the Avi trade wrong but did get a couple lower prospects that were used as trade bait (Montas, Wendelken). Do I trust them to sell and rebuild again? I don't think so. I think the sox need to clean house in the front office and bring in some fresh blood. Then completely rebuild the team. If they kept Hahn however, I wouldn't hate it if Q was moved at the deadline for a deal Hahn couldn't refuse. (let's say for arguments sake they moved Q to Boston for Bradley Jr., Moncada, Devers and Benintendi or Swihart) I think I could live with that deal. Gets a young proven all star OF, plus a 2B who is on a fast track to stardom in Moncada, then ya get two more top young prospect hitters. The Sale trade would be the one you take an off-season to work on. That one you HAVE to nail. Then you could turn around and unload the others (Frazier, Melky, etc.) I would keep Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer and Eaton as my new core. Those teams are not going to give up those major league players during the season if at all.

It is easy to say sell, but once you do sell, unless you are Caulfield, you can't take it back. Some prospects are nice, but who do the Sox trade that brings back top prospects who,actually are any good? There were several people excited about Avi Garcia back in the day. How does acquiring players like that enhance the future? No,way would I trade Sale or Q and not get at least so,etching major league back. Trade Robertson and you will spend the next few years looking for a reliever. It isn't like they are going to be able to make much of a splash in the free agent market. If I were Hahn, I would be looking for offensive upgrades from teams that want financial relief.