Dick Allen

QUOTE (RaySox @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:27 AM) No rumors at all! So dry this season... yuck Really true. So far a very boring deadline trading season. It obviously will pick up, but nothing but very generic rumors out there now.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 07:33 PM) U.S. Cellular field cost 168 million for a 45k seat stadium. And required no additional infrastructure improvements. Remember, the Dan Ryan, red line, green line, and parking lots were already built. Oh, and Jim Thompson signed a deal with Harold Washington that ensured the sox stadium stayed on 35th and shields The Red Line, Green Line, and Orange Line are pretty convenient to Roosevelt and the river. And your snarky billion dollar comment to someone else seems to be refuted by another article as the city wants someone to build on the land. I doubt any would risk an extra billion to build a development. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/201...h-loop-property Whether you want to believe it or not, the perception is USCF is not in a desirable location. Perception trumps reality. Closer to downtown could have made a huge difference. The after work crowd on weekday nights would have been larger.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 04:35 PM) No way do the Dodgers do that. I don't know if they would or not. It would set them up pretty well. It all depends on how they really feel about Puig. What if Detroit picked up the difference in money this season? I can't understand why the Dodgers would consider trading the guy,maybe he is too big a distraction. Maybe they want prospects.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 02:56 PM) Do you have a spare billon dollars to fix that? By my condo, there is is a rough intersection thanks to railroad viaducts built in the early 1900's. My alderman said the cost to modernize this one intersection( remove some of the beams and help motorists get by with less accidents) would Cost the city 300 million dollars. Needless to say , that intersection remains the same. Do you honestly think the city and state have the money to move railroad tracks ( several lanes worth) and build a tunnel at 16th and Clark for a baseball stadium? And one that won't have nearly as many parking spots as the cell? According to this article, it was going to cost $180 million to build a 50,000 stadium at that site. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-12...tadium-proposal

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 01:10 PM) So, first problem - if the Dodgers are more willing to move Puig because they got Crawford back from most recent injury, then Cespedes doesn't necessarily fill a need for them? Beyond that, I'm too out of touch with LA to know how the team is looking at him right now. Talent-wise no they wouldn't do that, but getting rid of a guy sometimes you do things you wouldn't otherwise do. Crawford remaining healthy is about as likely as you praising the White Sox work in Glendale. For the short term, the Dodgers would have a big 3 of Kershaw, Greinke, and Price. Good luck against that in the playoffs, and Cespedes is a pretty good player. If they are disenchanted with Puig, they can deal him and become the odds on favorites to win it all, if they are not already. The Tigers get a headcase, very talented, who wouldn't cost 8 figures a year until 2019. There is something here for everyone.

I meant Tigers. Price and Cespedes for Puig. Would the Dodgers do it? I think if I am Dombrowski, I would if he is waving the white flag.

For some reason, I think Puig, if he gets traded, goes to the Dodgers in a Price deal.

If the SS position can't be obviously upgraded this next offseason,you decline Alexei's option and sign him much cheaper perhaps with incentives where he gets paid if he performs. His fielding has been better, and he has hit slightly better lately. Perhaps he is coming out of his funk. I don't think he has declined physically as much as some think.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) Just remember this conversation when we see how terrible the April game attendance looks next year when this season hits the season ticket sale numbers. Next year is going to be UGLY. Then you can pat yourself on the back for being miserable. The Sox have still won most of their home games, especially when rabbit doesn't show up, and people have fun. I don't think the drop will be as massive as you think. They will rearrange the mix of players, and there will be optimistic people. I have fun most games I attend. Even when the Sox lose.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) They still had a bunch of them in the park, including during the broadcast. They probably also sold "3 game" ticket groupings for those events. I went to the games. There wasn't a bunch of them in the park that were noticeable or announced. Dustin Hermanson did surprise a guy who correctly answered jersey numbers and signed a ball. That was it. I was on the Club Level, and the did advertise Carlos May AND Mike Huff signing autographs there on July 31st, so get your club level seats while you can. Other than Hermanson, the only other guy they showed was Pods sitting in a suite. I guess that is a gimmick that could double attendance, but it seems more than far fetched.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 02:33 PM) Hell I'd have gone for that. If you were expecting that un Sunday, you would have been SOL.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 01:36 PM) Yes, ticket sales are going to rise this year because, as you noted, people bought into the concept that this team could actually win. As a consequence, they sold a bunch of season tickets. The crowds this year, right in the middle of summer, are terrible unless they have some huge gimmick. They're getting smaller crowds right now, with a solid season ticket sales boost, than they got last year, which means fewer and fewer people are coming to see these games and the only thing keeping the attendance from collapsing through the floor is the several thousand additional season tickets they sold last year. We are getting the worst "summer crowds" for White Sox teams since before the WS and that's with a boost of several thousand season ticket sales over last year. That means the walkup/single game ticket sales are ungodly awful. Do you honestly think that those season ticket sales will come back next year when we can't sell single game tickets right now? The impression I've got is that the fanbase is now somewhere between angry and completely disillusioned. Unless they pull off acquiring mike trout this offseason, even "looking like we might be competitive" isn't going to be enough to un-do the damage done by this season. We took the people who were still interested in white sox baseball, who would have been interested in season tickets but were holding out for a team that they thought could win...and we spat on them. The end result of that is going to be felt next year and it's going to be ugly. There was over 30k there on Sunday. What was the gimmick? Let's be like the Pirates and the Cubs and the Royals...the one thing they have in common is being bad a very long time, but between these model franchises, they do have as many championships as the disaster of a franchise on the South Side of Chicago the last 30 years. Tickets were bought months in advance. There isn't going to be announced crowds of 14,000 every night except for the Cubs and Yankees like some suggest.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) Here's the problem. "Oh no, the White Sox would never be able to sustain a rebuild. Could imagine what it would do to the fan base if they had like 4 losing seasons out of 5 years?" Yeah, we've already done that. We're going to really pay for it next year based on how terrible the walkup crowds look this eyar. The "rebuilding will destroy this fan base" threat doesn't work when we've done exactly that without any rebuilding and with a roster that looks very, very far from a sure thing over the next few years. First, there is a big difference between trying to win and failing, and putting a product you know isn't good enough on the field. White Sox attendance will rise this year for the first time since 2006. Walk up crowds were terrible in 2012 when they were in first place most of the year. Walk up crowds are pretty much a thing of the past. They really marketed Buehrle vs. Sale and Sale going for a record and sold 4,000 more seats. That was considered huge. I read somewhere where the biggest day of game sale in 2012 was somewhere around 2,000.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 01:09 PM) Dick: This is more of a rhetorical statement / question. Given the attendance issues particularly the past few years would it really matter if they went to a rebuild instead of a reload philosophy and stated that? Does it really matter if instead of averaging 23 thousand they averaged 18 for the time they were rebuilding? (Especially when you factor in possibly the best lease agreement for the stadium in all of MLB as the Tribune explained in great detail a few months ago) Given the massive revenue streams coming in including from web / internet sources, the former commissioner saying MLB is now a nine billion dollar industry (which is NFL territory) I get the strong sense attendance isn't the "make or break" issue anymore. Just my opinion. Mark The big problem is in Chicago, the casual fan has an alternative. Especially now. I don't think the Cubs are quite as great as some people think they are, and face it, they are the Cubs. But with Wrigley Field undergoing a renovation, USCF will be considered "the dump" in Chicago in a couple of years, and if that team is more interesting for a 3 or 4 or 5 year stretch, where the Sox aren't even trying to win, that could set them back like blowing off WGN did many, many years ago.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:57 PM) One general perception that I'm getting from all this discussion is that is that the Sox organization as a whole have done a poor job of communicating what "the plan" is and how they intend to carry it out. Talk of this three year "window / plan" seems to have come out when Kenny talked with the media in June for example. For so many fans to have different ideas / perceptions / thoughts of what to do, who to blame, who to fire gives me that impression. Say want you will about Epstein but he made it pretty clear to everyone what he was going to do when he took over the Cubs and he stayed with that philosophy despite the backlash from some in the media for example. Sox fans seem to have little to no sense of what the Sox are trying to do, which is why I made the statement in my column that they have lost credibility with their fan base. I don't expect the organization to have gone into minute detail of their plans but a good overall comment could have helped and then more importantly to stayed true to that. If you are going to rebuild...then rebuild. If you are going to reload, then reload. Fine. I don't think you can "rebuild and contend" at the same time which for years has been a philosophy of Kenny and he has stated that but that's simply my opinion. I think a lot of the questions about who is running the show stem from Hahn's public comments and what he did towards purging the major league roster and trying to patiently rebuild the minor league system and then what took place this off season to go along with Kenny's strident comments in June to the media about Hahn and his staff having to clear everything with him. That starts people wondering, even though that may actually be the status quo for a number of major league teams. Looking back Kenny may have wanted to be more tactful in what he said or perhaps not said anything at all. Mark They have made it clear they intend to compete the next 3 years, so no rebuild. I think Oakland has done the rebuild/compete thing with limited success. The problem the White Sox have is shutting it down the 3 or 4 or 5 seasons minimum it would take for a total overhaul will decrease the fanbase. Look at Cleveland. They sold out for years, then got bad for a while, and now even with a few good teams, can't get anywhere near that level. I think the White Sox would be the same way. To get back to 25k a game after a rebuild would take either a lot of luck or several really good years.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:41 PM) Simple maybe what Hahn would do on his own is a 180 degrees of what he has to do under KW. I am not saying Hahn would be any better but he needs a chance to show he can do the job or not. Maybe, maybe not. I like Rick Hahn, but if you or anyone thinks he is KW's puppet and is GM in title only, then what ever you are basing he would be good on his own with, is fantasyland. It would just be another case of JR being loyal.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:38 PM) JR has publicly said many times that when he's gone he recommended to his family that they sell the team. He's also said publicly that they have no interest in running the show when he's gone for what that's worth. Mark I have a pretty good source that at least one member of the Reinsdorf clan would love to run the White Sox, and they will still have control of the team when JR is no longer capable.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:32 PM) Basically your answer to everything is that no one can be accountable for failure in a large organization because some poster some years ago made an argument against Greg Walker. No. I just don't join lynch mobs. I just wonder why isn't this "historical" lack of offense not blamed on the hitting coach? Why was Ozzie Guillen's stint as a 3rd base coach all the experience anyone really needs? Robin actually did better his first year as a manager with probably a lot less roster. Why were all the moves made this winter praised and Rick Hahn admired, and when they didn't work, then shifted to KW's decisions, and Hahn is nothing but a puppet? And if Rick Hahn is KW's b****, why would anyone think he would have any reasonable chance to succeed as a GM on his own?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:19 PM) But the one measureable we do have...wins and losses, indicates that what we're doing right now is failing, consistently. Right now yes. But what is the reason? 7 or 8 years ago, the reason the White Sox weren't scoring runs was the hitting coach according to many here. He resigned. Praise the Lord. How is that offense? If KW goes to Toronto, or on a Love Boat cruise, it really wouldn't bother me, but to blame him for this failure is silly. To blame 'loyalty" is silly. There have been plenty of changes in the organization the last several years. Pretty much everyone but KW and Cooper weren't in those positions when the Sox won the WS. I understand writing a blog could be walking on eggshells as the White Sox do grant some favors. But if this article isn't about it's time for JR to sell or KW to take a walk, then it's accuracy is a bit off.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:12 PM) It is possible that turning around a veteran-laden team that has gotten tired of its blowhard, uninterested manager could be a different challenge from building a younger, poorly-taught team that needs to have people step up and reach their talent level to succeed. It could be, but we don't know. Considering how many people here with zero experience seem to know each and every mistake Robin makes (usually in hindsight) it is hard to understand the cry for experience being so important.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:07 PM) Maybe it's time to ask the question again...what haven't they changed? They haven't changed the way they treat minor leaguers, they haven't improved their effectiveness in that, they haven't change the philosophy of buying expensive, mid-level free agents, they haven't changed the philosophy of sacrificing depth for front line guys, they haven't changed their philosophy on defense, they haven't changed anything that allows them to turn what talent they do acquire into big league contributors. Changing the names on the door but continuing to do things that are failing consistently is not likely to change the consistent record of failure. One key thing left out...if it was the owner pushing that, is what the GM's response was? Did the GM think this would work? Did the GM advise against it? Did the GM say that there was a particularly high risk that things would go wrong and it would cause a major setback that would hurt the team even in 2016-2017? Your statements suggest the GM was forced unwillingly into the type of moves that continue failing for this team. If the GM cautioned against those moves in private, which we'll never know, fine that's a logical reason to hold onto him and maybe we'll actually get the owner who learns his lesson. If not, if the GM was on board with them, then the GM endorsed that failure just as much. So if your boss tells you to do something and you say OK, and it doesn't work, you should get fired. If you told your boss it was a big mistake but you will do what he says anyway, then OK? That's ridiculous, especially in a competitive game. JR wants to compete, opened the wallet, and knowing mediocrity can still get you in the playoffs, there isn't one person who would tell JR to hang on to his wallet until Courtney Hawkins and Matt Davidson are ready to be called up to make Tyler Flowers look like the greatest contact hitter of all time.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:03 PM) The main point in all of this that's missed is that Ventura has no previous coaching experience on any level outside of his kids' teams. Who gets hired to a top level job by any sane/employed person that has zero experience in lower levels to show that they actually know what they're doing? In the major leagues alone, there are several. The guy played MLB for many years, under a lot of different managers. The implication that he was totally blind coming in is just wrong, and his first season, the White Sox played well above expecations. After that, the experience card should have been played out.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 11:45 AM) Dick: Kenny in my view is a big part of the problem but pinning the entire situation on one guy is wrong in my opinion. Do I think the organization would be better off if JR allows him to leave to say Toronto this off season? Absolutely and many of the off season moves have a Kenny feel to them given his M.O. for over a decade. But that won't solve all the problems, especially in drafting and minor league player development. Kenny doesn't have a lot of hands-on stuff in those areas from what I know. Mark But from the periods you are discussing, they have made changes. Laumann does the draft. Hahn is the GM. Marco Paddy was hired. Ventura is a change. They have done exactly what you are calling for except for one guy, and now, all of a sudden, after a winter of giddiness from Sox fans. Soxfest sellouts, everyone bowing to Hahn, failure happens. Guess what? Now all those moves that couldn't have been more praised by media and the fans, they had nothing to do with Rick Hahn. It clearly was Kenny Williams, the guy that did build the only team that has won in about 100 years, now hasn't a clue, and is forcing Hahn to sign players, and has a gun to JR's head telling him he has to approve the payroll increase. That's fine and dandy, but now let's get back to the facts, which aren't so entertaining. JR was told his team had a lot of holes and was a bit away from contending. JR wanted to win right away and told his guys they needed to do what they could to make that happen. They don't have much they can trade away for anything that helps, but they took that, and got Samardzija. They did the other thing they could do and signed several free agents. This wasn't KW running the ship, this was JR. Maybe KW goes to Toronto or somewhere else this offseason, but he and Hahn did what JR ordered. Baseball, not being like other things in life, sometimes doesn't go as planned no matter how much effort and thought you put into it.

So they changed the manager, and the GM, and admits JR isn't going anywhere...why doesn't this article cut out the BS and directly say what it wants to say? It's obvious Lip wants KW's head.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) The A's were always insane to think Semien could play at short. If you move him to 2B, you have some value, but his value is easily tradeable for a guy like Shark. No matter what has happened with Shark and our season, I still believe we will get better prospects back for Shark then we gave up (even with Shark's performance being down a bit). We also traded from a surplus (we have a million potential 2B candidates). I agree. Out of Micah, Sanchez, Saladino, Leury...just hope a couple of these guys figure it out and become solid starters. It looks at worst, they all, even Leury, could be bench pieces.