Texsox

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:57 PM) Not really what I said. Some departments, its irrelevant. Other departments, its looked at casually. Yet others, there is an actual quota or range. That final scenario is, in my experience, the rarity. I have no problem with tickets, but I do have a problem with requiring certain numbers of them. The point I was making, and I think we are agreeing, is a cop can't go out day after day and not write tickets. It's all part of his performance. If he isn't writing tickets, he better be conducting other "work". It would be hard to argue that writing tickets does not benefit the cop because it is a part of doing his job. It may be a monor thing, but it is still part of the job for some cops.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:58 PM) You just eliminated the most logical answer. Not necessarily because their values had to come from somewhere.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:51 PM) No, TexSox was saying that people don't object to being asked to a ball game or a movie, but they do when someone invites them to church. I was just wondering why someone would want to invite me or someone else to a church. I still think that religion is pushy though. Count up how many messages about religion you receive this week, versus beer ads, and tell me which is more pushy . . . I agree some zealots are too pushy and it turns me off as well. But the mainstream follower probably is too timid to invite you.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:51 PM) Well, my experience was in a department where the number of citations written was not a performance hurdle. It was noted, but not part of your performance, unless you were at an extreme (none might be a problem, but so would too many). I suppose in some sleepy little suburbs or towns, some departments may use that as a performance gauge. But the majority of departments I am familiar with, it was either not part of evaluation at all, or it was some small thing. There are some departments where its a bigger deal I am sure. So there is a normal range that cops would need to fall into? So, right or wrong, they do need to write tickets to keep their jobs? Until we see a dramatic reduction in traffic crimes, I don't see a problem with expecting cops to write tickets.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:48 PM) But because I live here, he'd rather eat glass then come back. Ya'll come back now, ya hear? You keep them out up north and I'll handle the south

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:44 PM) Why than would someone invite me to church? Fellowship. Hear a good speaker. Entertainment. I attend different services all the time with friends and never feel any pressure to convert. Why would you invite someone to a movie? Why would you tell someone about a TV show you like? Now if you are talking strangers with tracts and witnessing on the streets, I pass them by in a heartbeat. I use to ride with the Christian Motorcycle Association and invited friends all the time on our rides. It is a great group of people, we had interesting rides, and somehow always knew the best food stops. I didn't expect them to suddenly start attending a Church.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) They may benefit indirectly, but in my experience, it is so indirect that no motivation exists at that level. but, if the department itself has policies about quotas (which are not pervasive), then there is that motivation. And the quotas, if they are there, are likely pushed by entities outside the department. How is a traffic cop reviewed? If he works a week and writes one ticket, isn't someone wondering what he's doing?

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:38 PM) Personally, I haven't. It's your choice. Interesting that most people do not object to an invitation to attend a baseball game, a restaurant, or movie, but some will to an invitation to attend Church. I wonder why that is? Would I be trying to convince you to be Italian by heading to Olive Garden?

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:34 PM) Whoa, whoa, whoa! I wasn't the one saying "Christians make me sick" or that organized religion should be banned. Quite the opposite. I fully support an individual's rights to believe whatever they want to believe and to belong to any religion they want. Sorry. Posted too fast.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:22 PM) To give Texas back to Mexico. That would be a nice start. Now stick out your tongue Well yeah, and we'll like give Illinoise back to the Indians

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) I'd say its both. Just remember, the cop doesn't get that money from the ticket. Heck, even the police department itself gets little or no money out of it. The money goes to courts, or to state funds to be redistributed according to their whims. More money funneling in is more money to spend. To deny that all municipality workers, including the cops, do not benefit, seems a tough argument to win.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:28 PM) Well, you don't need organized religion to have values and a moral basis... No you don't. What is it about some people's values and moral basis that makes you sick? You are trying to push your values and morals on us, and want to be listened to, shouldn't you have the same respect to listen to others? Are yours more valid because you aren't Christian?

We have developed a system of punishments in this country that is based on a scale. The faster you speed, the more you pay. The more dangerous the location, the more you pay. Same with theft, assault, and every other crime. I don't have a problem with increasing fines in various "zones".

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:18 PM) all of them. I think organized religion should be ilegal. Christians make me sick. So you do not have a value system? No core beliefs? No personal basis for what is right or wrong? I'll exit quickly here. You would feel too threatened to discuss this.

It all started with the flip flop strategy that worked.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:17 PM) Oh I didnt know you were from Texas. That explains it. I was in Texas once and I'd rather eat glass than go there again. LOL I hope you are holding your breath until you turn blue also.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) There usually getting told what they can't do, because their always trying to put their religion on everyone else. Tell them to get out of my buisness and I'll get out of their's. Who do you mean by "they". The full time Church employees and their organization or their followers?

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 01:12 PM) The murders in Juarez are particularly brutal, FWIW. Their have been a few around the US that come close, Green River, BTK, etc. But this is brutal.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 12:55 PM) 268 deaths are alarming in Iraq, cause that wouldnt be 14 years it would be a week or so. Less than six months in Chicago.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 12:53 PM) DING DING DING DING!!!! THAT'S why we have a MEXICAN immigration problem... In part. The wage and working conditions issue is very complex. When American companies first came across, they could offer better wages than the existing Mexico companies and therefor "stole" all the better workers. This was not acceptable and three decades later a balance is still being sought. We still have to accept that we had more jobs here than available, willing workers and solve that need.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 11:58 AM) Not paying taxes is stealing from the government. At the very least, they are committing theft, probably grand theft. That's not even to mention the security issues, health issues, etc. It may not effect you directly, but it surely costs you money, and it costs some people a lot more. Our tax system allows for workers in the lower income levels to not pay income taxes. In fact, with various credits, they will take more than they will ever pay. It doesn't matter if they are legal or illegals with false documents. We will provide college educations, child care, health care, etc. for the working poor. We have two groups here. Those who are working with false SS numbers and filing returns and those that are off the books. It will cost us more when these jobs go back on the books. Illegals also pay, like everyone else, sales taxes, tolls, etc. Bottom line, poor people cost us all. But I wouldn't want to live in a country that the least amongst us could afford to build. Fixing this problem is going to cost us a hell of a lot more, but it's the right thing to do.

WOW, I can't believe I live on the same border y'all are describing and worked in Reynosa, Matamoros, and Nuevo Laredo. I don't know where to begin. Yes, there is crime in Mexico border cities, just like every major US city. Gangs, drugs, etc. all come into play. There are places in Chicago most of us would not want to visit, the same with Mexico cities. NAFTA caused a huge influx of rest of world companies moving to North America, and especially Mexico. Reynosa is home to the largest concentration of Japanese manufacturers outside of Japan. They avoid tariffs on their country of origin b y manufacturing in North America. At least in my corner of the border, the infrastructure has improved greatly in the past 12 years. Two International bridges have been built, with one more beginning. Highways have been built, local roads improved. The industrial parks have better roads and easier access. Public areas are being painted. Part of Mexico's problem was allowing countries to plunder and not contribute. For example, Mexico charges a tax on profits. Using the classic Maquilladora model, goods are staged in the US, sent over to Mexico for assembly, them returned to the US for sale. The company "sells" the finished goods to their American division at cost, resulting in zero profit and zero taxes paid. That loophole has been closed to some extent. Most of the abuses you read about are Mexican companies exploiting their own workers. On the border, most Maquilla managers are US citizens and have the same ethics as you and I. They try to make a difference. With China coming on strong, they are also in a competitive bind and trying to squeeze every penny.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 11:39 AM) I've said before, and it bears repeating, Kucinich is one of the few who actually hasn't changed his mind 15 times. Not specific to Kucinich, but to never making a new decision . . . For those that voted in favor of the war, what does it say about someone who doesn't change their mind after not finding any WMD, after not experiencing anything the administration outlined? I do not see any virtue in not making a new decision once you discover you were wrong, for whatever reason. Blindly sticking by a decision you made years before, when so much new information is out there is wrong. I thought back then our country was in a very tough situation. Are there WMD there and could we find them? It seemed amazing to me, with all the countries around the world, that Iraq could be the only one, and the most dangerous. But, if asked to vote, I would have voted to invade. Now, after seeing everything that has happened, I realize that was a mistake, and with the benefit of hindsight would have voted against. Why would continuing to support the war make me a better leader? We need leaders who can change and adapt to a new world. The world changes itself constantly and new decisions need to be made all the time.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) This pretty much sums it up for me. A quote from Tim Russert yesterday on Meet the Press: Tim Russert not a lot there to disagree about. Sad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/opinion/...f4e&ei=5070