Texsox

Lol. Here's a resume for a guy who could make the jump in five or ten years. They gets hired out of college for their statistics and analytical skills. They work the front office ten years, comes out to spring training to link what they are seeing in their reports to what's happening on the field. Some of the players really get into the data and get to know them and see how it's helping their performance on the field. Maybe he becomes a bench coach to gain some clubhouse experience.

Our biggest and most successful corporations today were started by people from outside the industry they disrupted. Why not baseball? The skill set to be a manager is different than being a player. Almost all the top managers in every sport were benchwarmers studying the game. Why not study the game remotely? We already have front office personnel who didn't play the game.

Exactly. I think a guy that spends fifteen years studying the science of the game behind a computer could be better than a guy who spent those fifteen years playing a single position.

What decision has a manager made that created a mess?

What clubhouse rules could a manager get away with today? You can't stop any protests. You can't stop relationships. Basically a manager needs to stay away from anything that isn't on the field during gametime.

Clubhouses change with each generation of players. A modern manager shouldn't tell players what to do or not to do so it seems like the players run the clubhouse.

I was thinking outside the box here. Obviously being a great or even good player isn't necessary to be a great manager. I'm wondering with advanced analytics do you really even need to have played? Couldn't someone with great abilities to relate to players, motivated, and make the sound moves based on science rather than gut and experience do really well as a MLB manager? Why would you ever need to play MLB or MiLB baseball?

Great reference.

Ragah and Dallas Nice job keeping that from turning into a really ugly mess. I hope you both slept well and enjoy your day.

Get his Hall of Fame bust ready. I'm thinking three maybe four WS wins in the next 20 years he's there. Detroit probably won't miss the playoffs this decade. And yes, that was sarcasm.

Fair enough. What criteria do you use to determine who is a great manager? I think managers get too much credit and too much blame. I'm trying to think of a great manager who wasn't surrounded by great players?

I believe there are some things you just don't recover from. Sports are filled with guys that stepped over lines that shouldn't be crossed. Systematic cheating at that level is one. Now I'm not saying that justified hiring Tony over several other non scandal tainted candidates like Alomar etc. But I think you can build a championship team without bringing in cheaters.

Are you just looking at his Sox years or overall? I'll agree his Sox years didn't put him in the hall. We're getting the before and after of his best, hall of fame worthy, years.

Results.

Hinch wasn't someone I wanted but I agree there were others I wish they had hired. I really wouldn't have cared if they only interviewed Alomar for example. A show of bringing in candidates then hiring Tony wouldn't make me feel any better about the choice.

If we're saying was Tony better 10 or 20 years ago, sure he was. I think the point that people are trying to make is there are 40 year old folks that wouldn't be as good of a manager as Tony is at 76. Again, I'm not saying he is a good choice. But realize were discussing one of the all time great managers in his declining years not a hack like the last couple of guys in the dugout.

You don't agree we could have done better?

Really? I went back and earned a MA at 50 and felt as sharp as ever.

So is a hall of fame manager at 76 better than Renteria who will probably never manage in MLB again? Maybe and I'm leaning towards yes. The question we will never know the answer to is he better than one of the hot names or someone we hadn't thought of? Tonight I don't believe so. I think we could have done better. But his age is down the list of my concerns.

When will you decline mentally?

Tray, after I finish this rotation of the sun I'll be 60 so I appreciate your post and feelings. I think some of our posters have a pessimistic view of how they will be in a couple decades. That makes me a bit sad. It's as if they think their lives are over at 50. Lol In a less harsh light. Tony started managing 40 years ago. I believe the Sox did not and will not receive his best years. Those were after his first tour and before this latest. We will never really learn if a proven hall of fame manager on the downside of his career would have been better than a potential hall of fame manager on the upstart of a career. But isn't that part of the fun of sports? Discussing the possibilities.

I'm thinking in more general terms. Is there one best manager available and every team should hire him or is one guy perfect there and a different guy is the best for over there? Thinking in a different sport, are there Doug Collins builders and Phil Jackson finishers? And if they went with a hot name would we even really care?

I'm wondering if he doesn't interview well or just loyal to the Cleveland Baseball Team.

I agree they didn't hire the best available. If they immediately zeroed in on Bochy for example would you feel the same way about a search? But is there one best manager available and every team should be looking at that one individual or do you believe that multiple teams could each be looking at a different person and each selecting their best choice? I'm thinking more about the process than the result. I honestly wouldn't have questioned the process if it resulted in one of my top three picks.

How many managers have been employed in MLB in the years Tony managed? How many are in the hall? I'm going to hope there's some Hall of Fame managerial electrons left in the energy cell. He wasn't my top choice but I'm certainly not going to wish he fails. At several points in his career he was the best manager in baseball. Does he have two or three runs left? Let's hope so. Now if he could convince Alomar to come in as assistant manager . . .