Texsox

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 29, 2009 -> 08:08 PM) I think Bonds was smart enough that when the Drs said: "Dont ask" he didnt ask. So upon hearing this, did Bonds think he was taking a legal or illegal drug? Why would a Doctor not tell him about a legal drug?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 29, 2009 -> 08:08 PM) I think Bonds was smart enough that when the Drs said: "Dont ask" he didnt ask. Plausible Deniability. Remember Anderson and Bonds were really good friends, to the extent that Anderson has said he would never testify against Bonds. Bonds was their meal ticket, they had an incentive to protect him at all costs and that includes being smart enough to know that as Drs if they cover for Barry, hed always have an excuse. The question for perjury is did he actually know, not did he have an idea, not did he think maybe, its did he actually know. If he did not know for sure, he can not be convicted. This is just breaking the law 101, whoever is the most important part of the group, you protect at the cost of the rest of the group. Whaaaat??? That was crack I was smoking!!?? Not my fault officer. I didn't know what I was smoking, they didn't tell me!!! Sorry, ignorance is not an excuse.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 29, 2009 -> 07:58 PM) Why are they in the HOF if cheating disqualifies you? Because people learn from their mistakes. At some point society says enough is enough and stops rewarding the behavior. Why was I able to drink at 18 and now kids have to wait until 21? Why could my dad have an open can of beer in the car while driving and I couldn't? It is a very simple concept that most people grasp.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 29, 2009 -> 01:02 PM) This is completely ridiculous and completely irrelevant to the Prosecutions case. The Prosecution must prove that Bonds "KNOWINGLY TOOK STEROIDS". How does a sample of urine with Steroids prove that Bonds knew he was taking steroids? Its the same answer as before: I took the cream and clear, I didnt know what they were. I took Pill B that my Dr gave to me, I didnt know what it was, he said it would help the pain, I believed him. Also they have no "chain of evidence". Who has had these substances for 6 years, how do we know that they were not tampered with, etc etc. I wonder how much govt money has been wasted trying to discredit Barry Bonds because he isnt lovable enough. Bonds is a professional athlete whose livelihood depended on his physical conditioning. There is no way he would take anything without knowing what it is. There is no way he didn't notice the muscle mass developing. Then after steroids became more well known, he continued to use them. Beyond the point that any reasonable person would think he was an unknowing victim. But if you prefer to think of Bonds as the stupidest f***ing moron to ever walk the planet, that just blindly ingested and/or injected whatever someone gave him and didn't ask what it was and what it did, go for it. Hey look, I'm chewing bubble gum and my biceps are getting huge!

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 09:13 PM) So why should society care? /just thinking like Joe the Plumber When we place that low of a value on human life, we then devalue a whole lot more. It strikes to the heart of what American values are. If our values allow for our elderly to freeze to death with such callous disregard, are we really much better than some of the countries we send the troops to? When the two news stories of the day are this man freezing to death, and a $50,000,000 private jet paid for with "bail out" money, and we are more outraged about the jet, that worries me.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) You talk as if any elderly person who does this didn't attempt to save money. I don't think it's that cut and dry. true. I was going for the comedic line and sometimes comedy is not pretty. Of course there are some people who just want to be a greeter at WalMart

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 05:53 PM) It will be interesting to see if any protocol was violated. If they followed all of the accepted procedures then they cannot be found at fault. It may be wrong on a human level because of the outcome, but from a procedural POV, they may have done all they were required to do. You may be confusing company protocol with laws. Just because someone has a company policy, if that protocol is found to be illegal, they can still be found at fault. For example, a company may have a protocol where they will not open doors after 5 pm and phones are for company business only. If someone is standing there bleeding from a wound at 5:05 pm and they are ignored, those people could still be prosecuted. And there is no record that they contacted him, no record they explained how the device worked. He was an old man without family who probably outlived his friends.

Death penalty cases Killing a child Killing a cop $1000 in unpaid electric bills Perhaps some here could throw the switch that killed that man, but I could not.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 02:15 PM) Do you understand that a line has to be drawn somewhere? I draw the line before the person dies. You draw the line somewhere past the point where 93 year old people die. I guess we both can sleep with where we draw the line.

A couple possible solutions to cutting off the electric. If there is zero usage for 2 hours in freezing temps, call the customer, then call their emergency contact. If no answer, notify the police. This would indicate the breaker was tripped and the person did not reset. In this case it was conceivable that the customer never left his home to learn about the device on his meter.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) There are literally thousands of people in the Chicagoland area that face the same issue. Should the utility companies just give everyone a pass on paying for a service because its cold outside? Its a service you pay for, if you cant pay, you dont get the service. Its fairly straightforward. Are you suggesting that those thousands should be left to die? I can just hear Rock explain that to the guy as he lays dying. Too bad it's cold outside. I guess you will die. It's a pretty straight forward system. You should have paid your bill.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 01:58 PM) Pay your bills, or dont get power. Its pretty simple and goes for everyone regardless of age. If i had that much in overdue bills, should I be crying because its cold or should I smack myself in the face for not paying my bills? BTW, what does him being a Vet have ANYTHING to do with it? Allowing poor people to die is one way of dealing with the problem. I guess that pot allows for imaginative answers to old age and poverty. And what job does a 93 year old man work? And being a vet matters because he has contributed to this country in a way that some poeple will never understand or appreciate. We owe it to those individuals who but their ass on the line for our freedom a little more respect than telling them to smack themselves in the face when they are 93 and struggling to survive.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) It is not plausible to believe an electric company would/should know the living/housing situations of all of its clients unless the town had like 100 people in it They are required, at least in Texas, to track which homes have life support equipment. I believe it would be easy enough to track any other special needs like elderly, handicapped, etc. and have a second contact person to inform if they are going to limit or terminate service.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jan2009/bayc-j28.shtml

My best guess from a GMA report and a couple newspaper reports, but some conjecture He was struggling to make ends meet, possible medical bills Was not aware they limited his electric (possibly expecting to be the cut off) Was waiting for his SS check to make a payment Had no idea help was available Thought he could "gut it out" Still for a WWII vet to die in his own home, frozen to death, seems senseless and avoidable. I agree we can't just give people electricity for free, but the utility companies should know who they are cutting off when the weather is this bad. Other sad stuff No one to check on him daily. Neighbors reported seeing him regularly.

It could not be confirmed, but it seems he did not have telephone service. Neighbors did report he would grocery shop on his own. I saw news coverage this morning and the outside of the house appeared neat and orderly and in good repair.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 01:25 PM) If he wasnt he shouldnt have been living by himself When your electricity goes off, do you think they attached a limiting device on your meter? I doubt I would have checked. It seems, at a minimum, they should have to contact him and show him how to reset the device. The pictures of his home show snow piled up, I'm not certain he would have been able to reach the device. It seems it happened in New Zealand, only worse, For $168 and it stopped a person's oxygen device http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article....jectid=10443049

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 01:06 PM) because dude didn't even acknowledge it. What is the proper acknowledgment in you office? WHEW! That one is even burning my eyes! Ahem, excuse me. Sorry. Whoa, I'd stay away from the copier, I ripped one Now that's how a man rips one Bambi

Some more info from other reports I heard. Basically the cut off is attached to his meter, outside. If the load surpasses the preset limit, I believe they said 10 Amps in this case, a circuit breaker opens and you have to go outside to your meter and turn it back on. The theory is you will keep turning stuff off until you stay within the range. This way the electricity stays on but you might not be able to watch TV or run the dishwasher. What seems to have happened here is it tripped and the man had no idea what happened. He may have thought they turned it off because he was delinquent. The company has used this device for ten years, this is the first death.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) I don't care about the political points. I care about carving out the billions of dollars in extras that get used to grease the system. Ideally I would like to see it removed as a means of "compromise" and instead would have congress actually voting on the merits of a bill, instead of what bribes they received. Exactly. But also remember it is how some good stuff gets passed by the minority party. For example, the GOP would have problems getting things they want through right now. So they wait until the Dems need them, and tack it on. This could be things that we agree with. I would dislike seeing the GOP neutered for the next two years.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,483244,00.html

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 12:46 PM) If it really was that important to both sides, they could easily override the veto. Most of the time those "cooperations" mean stuffing some extras into a bill to bribe the other side to agree to it. That is what I want to end. Agreed. But now think about negotiating when you know the President may be pressured to veto the stuffing? The other thing that gets weird is sometimes the stuffing is a better expense than what is in the bill already. Where this gets ugly. "Will your President support this item or will it get veto'd?" "We have the White House on board" "OK, bring it for a vote" "this will never pass again"

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 12:41 PM) I guess the poor need better lobbyists.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2009 -> 12:36 PM) I wouldn't mind that, but I would much rather see a line item veto if given the choice. That would cause a seismic shift in Washington, and one I'd like to see. The grease is what gets both sides to agree, but what costs us in additional programs. It never is your program or mine. It always becomes let's do both! And bill the grand kids. Image the negotiations when one side knows the President could veto the very concession that was made to get bipartisan cooperation.