JUGGERNAUT

IMHO, you should think before you write. When I give an adv to a pitcher I don't base it on a sample size of < 10 AB. Which in this case was the norm. I base it on overall performance, splits, situations, & how a relief pitcher has performed in a specific role. That's what determines the significant difference. Here's a question for you to ponder to see how much you know about how momentum plays a role in a baseball game. Are the ChiSox more likely to win this game if Politte relieves Contreras?

Ozzie, KW repeatedly told us that Politte was the 7th inning guy. Starting the 7th off with Cotts was Oz's biggest mistake. He only compounded that by using Politte, & Marte for 2 outs.

I already weighed in on this in the game thread, but I'll weigh in here as well. Oz's decision to bring in Shingo to close it out was the right decision. Relief is all about matchups. Shingo's 2004 #'s vs CLE made him the better bet then letting Herm face the guys who had a successful 7th. OZ lost this game in the 7th when he used up Cotts, Herm, & Marte in 1 inning. That left him with no less than 6 outs, & 3 arms to finish the game with a 5-2 LEAD. Experience alone should have told him that you have to prepare for extra innings at the Cell. That experience comes from last year & the last game. It's a HR park. He never should have used Marte in the 7th. He should have relieved Contreras with Politte & if Politte got in trouble bring in Cotts. That saves Marte for the 9th if Shingo gets in trouble & I would definitely consider a 5-4 game after Shingo served up 2 HR's trouble.

For those wishing to give Oz the benefit of the doubt consider this: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/pitchi...Type=2&type=std What you see in the numbers is that Marte dominated CLE more than Shingo last year. What's more if you look at the game logs CLE got to Shingo in the 2nd 1/2 last year (3ER in 1 ball game). Did we not start the year with doubts that Shingo could hold the closer position? Were those doubts not furthered by a weak ST by Shingo? A good manager takes this in consideration & says I need to save Marte to backup Shingo. It's the logical thing to do. You can sit there & say if Shingo does his job then Oz did nothing wrong. That's BS. A manager does NOT manage a team hoping or expecting for his guys to get the job done. He's suppose to think worst case. He's suppose to use the pen based on the odds presented to him. Oz clearly did not do that today. Maybe he forgot he only had 6 arms in the pen. If you need someone to blame point the finger at the Wizard. I'm pretty pissed off by this loss.

Let's see where the numbers lie in today's game. Top 7th: Cleveland: Sizemore, Peralta, Crisp, Belliard/Cora, Hafner Do you use Politte or Cotts? vs Sizemore, Peralta: adv Politte vs Crisp: adv Cotts vs Belliard:adv Politte vs Cora: adv Politte vs Hafner: adv Politte Start w Politte & use Cotts if he gets in trouble. Top 8th: Cleveland: Martinez, Boone, Broussard vs Belliard: adv Marte vs Cora: adv Herm vs Hafner: adv Marte vs Martinez: adv Herm vs Boone: adv Herm vs Broussard: adv Marte Start with Hermanson & use Marte if he gets in trouble. You go with Shingo in the 9th because he's the closer, but after the 2nd HR w the tying run at the plate you have to take him out. Top 9th: Cleveland: Belliard, Hafner, Martinez, Boone Having saved Marte he can now come in & face Belliard & Hafner. Two guys where the numbers favor Marte. This is a very tough loss because Oz managed away a quality/dominant start by Jose Contreras. I hope he realizes that & learns from this.

I didn't see this one so I'm Just looking at the play-by-play log The loss falls on Vizcaino's & Ozzie's shoulders. Why is Cotts pitching the 7th when it was determined last year or ST that Politte was most effective as a 7th IN man. The game was probably lost right here, because it gave CLE hope. Cotts left Politte a RON (1,3) w 1 out. Politte gave up a SF & was replaced with Marte. Marte got the final out. CLE 2, CWS 5 Then Ozzie relieves Marte with Hermanson in the 8th. Again why did he do this? Marte looked good in the 7th & he's the highest paid arm in our pen. He's accomplished more as a CWS than Herm has. All of the numbers say leave Marte in to pitch the 8th. Herm pitched a scoreless 8th. Oz used up Cotts, Politte, Marte, & Herm to get to the 9th. Leaving Shingo, Vizc, & Garland left. I say Garland because the off day left Oz with the flexibility of skipping a Garland start. CLE 2, CWS 5 Top 9th: Cleveland - R. Gload at first - S. Takatsu relieved D. Hermanson - C. Blake homered to deep left CLE 3, CWS 5 - G. Sizemore struck out looking, J. Bard flied out to center 2OUTS - C. Crisp homered to deep right CLE 4, CWS 5 STOP RIGHT HERE. CARDINAL RULE: YOU DO NOT LEAVE A PEN GUY IN THE GAME AFTER HE HAS SERVED UP TWO HR's & THE TYING RUN COMES TO THE PLATE. - R. Belliard homered to deep left CLE 5, CWS 5 - T. Hafner walked - V. Martinez singled to center, T. Hafner to second 2 out, RON (1,2) - L. Vizcaino relieved S. Takatsu - A. Boone popped out to shallow right VIZC goes on to get the next 4 outs. CLE 5, CWS 5 Top 11th: Cleveland - J. Hernandez walked - J. Hernandez caught stealing, catcher to shortstop - C. Crisp singled to pitcher STOP RIGHT HERE. Vizc is clearly struggling. Despite Ozzie's mishandling of the pen up to this point he can still relieve Vizc with Garland. The off day gives him that option. The rest is history. Vizc goes on to give up 6 RUNS before retiring the side. WHAT OZ SHOULD HAVE DONE: - 7th IN : relived Contreras w Politte (THAT'S HIS ROLE!) If he gets in trouble you can bring in either Cotts or Marte. If using Marte DO NOT make him a 1 out pitcher. -8th IN: If Marte is used in the 7th let him pitch the 8th. Otherwise Herm. The bottom line being either Marte or Herm being avail in the 9th. -9th IN: When the tying run came to the plate after Shingo had served up 2 HR's, you replace him. Pick one from Vizc, (Herm/Marte). -11th IN: Vizc clearly was laboring. You have the benefit of the off day to start Buerhle in Minn. Replace him with Garland or Herm/Marte if they are still available. THIS LOSS CLEARLY LIES ON OZZIE's SHOULDERS. WE HAVE BEEN TOLD ALL OFF-SEASON LONG ABOUT CLE'S LINEUP BEING ARGUABLY THE 2ND BEST in the AL this year. YOU DON'T LEAVE SHINGO IN AFTER WHAT HE DID & YOU DON'T LEAVE VIZC IN AFTER WHAT HE DID AT THE TOP OF THE 11TH. BAD BAD BAD BAD. SOMEONE KICK THE WIZARD.

Kenny needs to do everything in his power to stop the Lee bashing. Both from players & the media. It does not HELP the ChiSox. Lee has had nothing but good things to say about the ChiSox. The team should do everything in it's power to keep it that way. The fact that MLB designated the Brewer's as the Twins regional I-L rival means there are 12 gms over the next 2 yrs where that team can help the ChiSox in the standings. If Lee had to be traded & the best talent available was what KW got then it's an added bonus it was to the Brewer's. I've said this before & I will say this again. Every time Lee plays a role in a Flubs or Twins loss the ChiSox will be mentioned & the ChiSox will be helped. How do you think that will reflect on other team's willingness to trade for ChiSox talent? Big! Real Big! If Lee emerges as the marquee player for the Brewers teams will be even more inclined to jump at the young talent on the ChiSox. That means they will be more likely to overpay.

2004 RISP stats: ChiSox 291A, 9.63ERA vs 2005 RISP stats: 200A, 0.00 ERA For those wanting to hit the barf buttons consider this : 2004 Day stats: ChiSox 270A, 4.09ERA vs 2004 Night stats: 266A, 5.33ERA The lake effect winds have less impact during calm day games. Today the 9th inning opened up with darker clouds & a bigger wind out of the east. That's when both teams started hitting the ball better. Look at the distance on today's HR's. This team is going to hit. I've seen good signs already. The only player who looks completely helpless is Crede. But we have Fields & the long shot possibility of a trade for Nakamaru to fill that hole. I think the ChiSox want to give Crede a chance before giving up on him. Other than Crede I've been very encouraged with Everett (long counts), Dye (towering drives), & Koney (HR's) for the middle of the order. Pods is just unlucky right now. He's hitting the ball hard (line drives) but they just are in the wrong spots. Eventually that luck will turn. Rowand likewise is having good at bats. Some falling for DB's. Today we saw the power of Ozzie's bench & why Harris will remain the 25th man when Thomas returns. Against Wickman Harris is a 279A hitter. They have to respect that. That's why he was able to lay down a near perfect bunt. Those little intangibles make up the difference betw winning & losing. Most teams are not going to pull their closer just because Oz decides to put Harris in. That should give Harris more of an edge. Pitching wise, Garcia was getting squeezed on the calls & yet still managed 6K's & if not for the balk gives up 1 ER. That's pretty impressive. Cotts was likewise impressive. Marte inherited a runner, made a good inside, low, fastball pitch that a LH just happened to get some wood on. It fell along the LF line for a hit. He then shutdown the Tribe. Overall he looked impressive. This team never gave up. That was the best part of today. Thurs: Contreras vs Lee. Jose's chance to prove his $8M worth.

Don't believe everything you read. Carlos Lee was the MVP of the 04 ChiSox. If all this was 100% true in this town it would have surfaced long ago. The jury is still out as to whether KW will eat his lunch on the Lee trade. Unlike the rest of you I'm not basing it mostly on what El Duque does. I'm basing it primarily on what AJP, Pods, Vizc, Iggy & the PTBNL do. That's where I see Lee's salary being spent. So far plus points for AJP & Iggy, but minuses for Pods & Vizc. It's a long season.

Stat that matters most: Pitching RISP: 05 ChiSox 0L, 0 ERA vs 05 Twins 1L, 21.60 ERA As long as we remain the leaders in that number we won't need to fear the Twins or any one else for that matter.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug04.html ChiSox Best in the AL blown saves: 40 / 3 yr 2004 Cubs highest reliance on HR's: 45.6%, #2 ChiSox 44.4% 2004 Best in the AL R's: BoSox 949, Yanks 897, ChiSox 865 (386R in 35 gms, 479R in 127 gms) http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox04.html Iguchi receives high marks - hits to L or R depending on game situation. Earned #2 spot. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines 2004 Best in Div: Twins 46-30 vs ALC, 35-33 vs ALE+ALW. #2 ChiSox 36-40. http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/sp...ws-bbjay04.html Kotex boy didn't see the (386R in 35 gms, 479R in 127 gms) breakdown. Ignore him. That stat more than any other tells me the ChiSox needed to make changes. I'm so encouraged by Iggy's spring that I may even overlook Lee being traded. http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/ds.../pro/041sd8.htm ESPN Mag - Twins, Tribe, Tigs, ChiSox, Roys - Rubbish. ChiSox 1, or 2. They have too much pride to fall to 4th. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines The two-tiered Fundamentals area for kids in left field is finished and blends in spectacularly. I love the way he (IGGY) plays the game. He's going to be a big part of my team." http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/whitesox.asp?id=30061 An article you will never see from Kotex boy. Cell: From lifeless ball-mall to ent ctr. Cozy, friendly, comfortable place. - ctr field deck - flat roof supported by ornamental ironwork - forest green seats replacing dodger blue ones (entire park by Apr 06) - scout seats - new FUNdamentals area : opens 90 min before game time http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/spx-news-soxpre04.html + Notes: Best in AL CF's: Rowand #1 in HRs, DBs (38), SLG (.544) and extra-base hits (64). The ALC features more good LH bats than other divisions. ChiSox are prepared with: Vizc, Marte, & Cotts. Garcia - a 20 gm winner? 2004: 5th in AL K's (184), 7th in ERA (3.81), 7th in H/9IP (8.23). - Notes: Since 2001 Sox are 13-25 at the Metrodome. Yet to win a season vs Twins. 8-11 (2004) vs Tigs, & 44-32 vs Tigs since 2001. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...nus-cover_x.htm QUOTE by KW on OZ: "Every game that he played. ... I was in the dugout with him; I was a player. It was all Tony La Russa and any other manager could do to keep him from managing the game for him." http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...r-ratings_x.htm All-Stars: Ron Gardenhire, Minnesota: Disciple of Tom Kelly, but not always as demanding of young stars. Tony Pena, Kansas City: High-energy style and complete faith in players. Bench Warmers: Ozzie Guillen, White Sox: More interested in motivation than X's and O's. Alan Trammell, Detroit: Earned respect last year for pulling Tigers out of worst record in club history. Eric Wedge, Cleveland: Youngest manager in AL, which puts him in tune with one of the younger rosters. My own commentary: When I read the R spread of 2004 (386R in 35 gms, 479R in 127 gms) I became convinced that the moves KW has made for 2005 will result in more wins. Winning is more important than HR's. Since 2001 the ChiSox have not had a more balanced lineup than 2005. Lineup: 1-2 (Pods + Iggy) : Award-winning base-stealers. 3-4 (Everett + Koney) : HR power 5-6 (Dye + Rowand) : Nice combinations of speed & power 7-8 (AJP + Crede) : Joe has worked harder than ever to improve this year 9 (Juan Uribe) : Nice combination of speed & power. Best 9th hitter in the AL. Womack who? Juan Uribe OPS: (Apr 1030, May 884, Jun 720, Jul 419, Aug 884, Sep-Oct 990) It's ridiculous to only look at his Jul.

The Cubs represent Newman from Seinfeld for me. If they won the WS I would not care. The only time I root for the Cub is when the ChiSox are ahead of them in the standings. That goes for regular season & post season. I have always dreamed of the ChiSox beating the Cub in the WS. I dream of that every year. Now that we play them 6 times a yr I consider them a true rival.

Barry is among the elite players to have ever played the game but he's one of the moodiest SOB's to have ever played the game. I'm guessing Kittle caught him on a very bad day. As many of you have pointed out he obviously has/had white people in his life whom he respected & trusted. I don't think we should let one of his moody quotes overshadow that.

Mark & Freddy - 2nd best 1-2 ALC Contreras - 4th best #3 ALC Hernandez + BMac - Best #4 ALC Garland - Best #5 ALC Even with Mays & Lohse having better springs, I still pick the ChiSox 4-5 as the best in the ALC. Contreras is obviously the weakest link but I did see some signs of hope in his last start. The potential is still there for him to be the best #3 in the ALC. If that emerges the ChiSox should win the div. The pen will tell us whether this team is ready to win in Oct or not. It's definitely going to be better than 04. Of this I have no doubt. But I did see signs this spring where Shingo-Marte could be the best in ALC. Not indiv but combined. Marte looked much better. Overall I think we're ready to win. Several struggling players picked it up in the last 2 weeks (Crede) so I'm more optimistic now.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/43773.htm Interesting ATM article that looks at the Braves & other trades.

Good day Yasny. It's a well known fact the MVP of the ChiSox last year was one of the most sought after players by other GM's in the league. That status came into being near the break. To suggest the ChiSox couldn't find a trade to their liking is ridiculous. He was essentially on the block since Jul 04. I agree with most analysts that believe KW didn't get enough in return for Lee. They based their remarks on knowing what the demand for Lee was.

No risk, some reward. Me like.

You can stop there. Too funny!

One had nothing to do with the other. They were planning to trade Lee the whole time. That was blatantly obvious. Lee's $ was used to secure players you must have to compete. Hernandez' $ was used to upgrade the rotation. It wasn't a must. It was more of it's feasible do it otherwise go with what we have.

I did not say "bad play". I said in the eyes of OZ what he sees as a "gutless or weak" play. There's a big difference there. In general I'm exagerating this whole debate to have some fun I think Widger edged out Burke because Contreras sucks. He's a wild man capable of throwing away a game w RISP & you need the best glove you have to defend him. If AJ gets hurt during a Contreras w Burke you can mail in the loss but w Widger you still have a chance. What a horrible trade that was.

http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batt...Type=2&type=reg vs LH http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batt...Type=2&type=reg vs RH http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batt...Type=2&type=reg @Home http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batt...Type=2&type=regAway http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/springStat...m=cle&year=2005 ST 05 There's just nothing there you can point to that suggests a decline is coming for their main bats in 05. They look ready to fire on all cylinders in their lineup. It would be a surprise if they don't have the best team BA in the ALC in 05. Certainly top 5 in the AL. At the same time I believe they could have the WORST pitching staff in the ALC in 05. There's not much to go on with 3 yr avgs there & the ST numbers don't inspire much confidence either. That's why they don't scare me. http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/springStat...pitch&year=2005

QUOTE: Sure, eight of his 16 hits have come in two games, but consistency is so overrated. I prefer to look at this as the glass being 1/2 full. He's been working out in a batting cage at home all winter long so I know his bat speed, strength, & conditioning is there this season. All he needed was to get his timing down for the filthy stuff ML pitcher's throw. Going 4-4 in any game is very difficult to do. Having 8 hits in 2 games is strong evidence it's finally clicked for him. If he continues to do this for the rest of ST I'll be very hopefully for Joe's last year w the ChiSox. If he has his best year to date Boras is going to want big $'s for him. I don't see the ChiSox overpaying for Crede.

I just want to say I curse the day KW traded E-LO for Contreras. He's such a F"g waste of space. He's more likely the reason why Widger has been given the nod over Burke. As a #3 he should figure to get 33-35 starts. He's such a wild-man that it would be a miracle for him not to throw any pitches in the dirt in a start. The fact that he does it with RISP is a cardinal sin. He's just so F'g clueless out there & he didn't look any better in ST. Hernandez usually throws some in the dirt as well but when he's on his game batters swing at it & it's not unreasonable for a C to field the pitch. Burke is at a disadvantage to Widger on these types.

Let's make this simple for the Burke detractors. If he holds onto the ball on the Hunter play & Hunter is called out he's the backup C. What we've learned in the first season of OZ is that OZ never forgets. If he sees a play which paints you as weak or gutless in his opinion it stays with him. He never looks at you the same way again. That's why Lee's gone & Burke's in Charlotte. For all those people who feel a need to knock Burke's game calling & defense it certainly didn't seem to effect the win totals much. The team had 17W, 8L behind Burke & if you take out Mark's starts it's still an impressive 8W, 4L. If you scale that to a full season it's over 100 wins. In Widger's defense I will say this much. Burke never caught Contreras or Hernandez & they are notorious for throwing pitches in the dirt. More so than Shingo & Marte. From what I've read of Widger & from the numbers it does look like he has sure hands & is adept at blocking the dirt pitches. If ST is any indication Contreras looks worse than 04 control wise. The better glove is probably the right choice.

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?ac...431&qpid=621115 Thomas had an MVP-like season in 2000, & the team hit better on the road (BA wise) than it did on @ the Cell. I think the 95W had more to do with the offense than the defense that year. As odd as this sounds the best move KW's made in the past yr or so is getting back Carl Everett. We know what he can do when he's healthy at the Cell. We've seen he looks pretty healthy in ST. He'll get the job done at DH & when Thomas returns if Carl is hitting better than Dye he will get the nod in RF. So not only does he fit nicely to backup Thomas but even more so to backup Dye. They both are making about the same $'s this year so there's no reason to favor Dye over Carl if Dye's not producing. That's why I am very optimistic about 2005. DH: Everett + Thomas - major upgrade over DH in 2004. RF: Best of (Everett, Dye) - major upgrade over RF in 2004. C: AJP - major upgrade over C in 2004. SS: Uribe - upgrade over SS in 2004 2B: Iggy - even w 2B in 2004. 3B: Crede 05 has to be better than Crede 04. CF: ARow 05 w a new contract & more experience could be better than ARow 04. LF: Pods - what he lacks in hits & power he makes up for in SB's. We all know the rotation & pen have seen major upgrades so I can't see how any one can say KW has not done a reasonable job at upgrading this team.