witesoxfan

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 02:13 PM) Well cus hes not coming up at all this year. So conjecture.

Really happy to see Taylor. I'm hoping he gets an extended look and significant playing time.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 11:10 AM) If that gets you close, then the answer is "no". Garcia himself could provide 80% of what Stanton projects over the next 5 years. He "could," but that's part of the problem. Garcia "could" also turn into an incredibly average outfielder in that time too. If they could do it without Garcia, that would be ideal, but I'm just not sure how possible that will be.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) https://twitter.com/TeddyGreenstein/status/...825899460018176 It's reasonably possible that he is buried looking like that too.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 10:56 AM) Completely agree. Only way I'd move Q is to get a superstar hitter back. And the only one who MIGHT be on the market, that fits the Sox YOUNG core is Giancarlo Stanton. I think a package of Quintana, Montas, Micah Johnson, and Avi Garcia gets you in the conversation. Then sign a guy like Shields and you still have a decent rotation. Given cost control and the price of the output, I wouldn't trade much more than Quintana himself for Stanton. He's a free agent after 2016 and he's going to cost $20+ mill a year (and it could be closer to $25 mill) to retain long term. I think the most likely way a team trades for Stanton is a big package of prospects plus Garcia. I figured something like Anderson, Beck, Montas, Sanchez/Johnson/Semien, and Garcia gets you close.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 08:24 AM) But do you have any faith in Gillaspie's ability to repeat this production over the long term though? We know he doesn't walk a lot or hit for power so in order to be a valuable hitter he needs to maintain a high batting average. This year his BABIP is 40 points above his career average (.340 vs .300). In all liklihood he will go back to being the .260/.320/.400 type hitter next year that he was expected to be. Given his below average defensive ability this will make him a replacement level player, leaving 3B as another "black hole" to fill. I hope Hahn flips Gillaspie this offseason as I don't think his trade value will ever be higher, especially if he finishes the year strong and ends up with a .300+ AVG. Except that the biggest difference has been an improvement against RHP, which isn't unexpected out of a young hitter. 2014 vs RHP: .322/.381/.472/.853, .363 BABIP 2014 vs LHP: .216/.245/.320/.565, .263 BABIP Career vs RHP: .286/.348/.436/.784, .316 BABIP Career vs LHP: .190/.222/.286/.507, .231 BABIP BABIP is also much less static for hitters, as good hitters will get base hits more often. Given a 24.2% LD%, a .360 BABIP isn't unreasonable, even if it is a bit high. Bottom line, I feel fine with Gillaspie at 3B, especially against RHP. He's always hit righties well, and whether he figures out lefties is not something that will be required (though it would be preferred).

QUOTE (The Wiz @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 12:17 AM) Holy crap, of course the main goal is to get a good power bat for the middle of the order because the goal is to get good hitters and lineup protection isn't the main goal. But it certainly doesn't hurt having a good hitter bat behind your best hitter because without a doubt there are times when that lineup protection will help. Runners on 1B and 2B in a tied ballgame in the 8th inning with two outs with Jose Abreu up, a pitcher, manager, and pitching coach will definitely have a different approach to facing Jose Abreu if he had Victor Martinez batting behind him instead of Dayan Viciedo or Adam Dunn. And I don't think it is a huge deal either, if anything lineup protection goes hand in hand with just trying to build a good lineup. But you'd definitely want your two best power hitters batting back to back in the middle of the lineup because even if it is just a minor and small advantage, of course you'd want to take it because it is an advantage. They still aren't going to want to face Jose Abreu either way. They'll pitch around him in hopes that he gets himself out, and if he walks, he walks. It's not as if he'll suddenly start getting pitches right down the middle of the plate because Victor Martinez is hitting behind him. I mean, Adam Dunn gets out more often and he isn't as good of a hitter, but he's still a threat to do a lot of damage to you, so you have to be very careful. He's also got a good eye at the plate and a walk there still scores a run. I think this has more to do with building a good lineup in general, as you indicate. Again, it's incredibly simple logic - if you have good hitters, you will score more runs than if you don't have good hitters - but I think people bring up protection when it's really been shown to be non-existent. You are probably right in your initial assessment that if you had Beckham hitting behind Abreu, there may be some noticeable effects, but common logic says you will have your two best power hitters back to back almost all of the time and it's hard to control for whether or not there is an effect against that otherwise. At the end of the day, I just don't think you will see much of a difference in Abreu's numbers if you have Adam Dunn or Victor Martinez or Conor Gillaspie hitting behind him.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 1, 2014 -> 11:20 PM) Ozzie handled Dunn's lousy year pretty well. If Dunn somehow has an amazing September and DeAza and Gordo get good, then we have to question either the coaching in Chicago or the water or something. They are all on WS contenders so it should be interesting to see if they continue to stink or get good suddenly. No, you question your player development and the job of the hitting coaches and instructors throughout the organization. Robin Ventura's job is to manage the team. He will do what he can to make players better, but he has a lot more on his plate than that. If Adam Dunn gets hot, then Adam Dunn gets hot. That has absolutely no effect on Robin Ventura.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 01:50 AM) The Sox need to develop the classic run producing, third baseman, its been such a black hole for them since Crede left. If I were Rick Hahn I would try trading for a prospect, Corey Seager and Ryan Mchanon come to mind. They already did this last year with Matt Davidson. They're going to stick with Matt Davidson in AAA as the contingency plan. Semien and Gillaspie are good options at 3B right now, and there are a few other intriguing guys in the lower levels. I doubt the Sox will look to acquire a 3B prospect. QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 03:33 AM) Id give them Quintana (Who I'm not too high on) for Seager and Urias. I would give the Rockies Quintana and Chris Beck for Ryan McMahon and David Dahl. The Rox would pay through the nose pitching. I don't understand how you aren't high on Jose Quintana. The guy does nothing but keep improving and he's signed to an obscenely good deal. Corey Seager had an incredible year but it was also influenced by a .400+ BABIP. I also don't know that Jose Urias would be available from the Dodgers. Ryan Mcmahon just finshed his first full season at low A, which means he's actually lower than Trey Michalczewski at this point and his season really wasn't any better or worse than Trey's. David Dahl is frankly a very unencouraging outfielder with low walk rates. And, on top of that, you'd like to include Beck too. That would be highway robbery by the Rockies. Bottom line, I don't think trading Quintana is a good idea and I don't think they're looking to acquire a 3B this offseason either. I think these posts are way off-base.

Adam Dunn just doing Adam Dunn things.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 12:03 PM) Actually I misread yours. For some reason I was thinking 2014, mostly because I'm an idiot The first step is admitting it.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 11:32 AM) If the "stuff" in the scouting report is actually true, and the shoulder issues are at least a bit overblown, then I would agree with you. But I'd also say he wouldn't have been worth a player of that quality at any point except for maybe after the 2012 season had the Sox kicked in money and moved him then. The arm here is interesting but I think it's likely that the #12 prospect stuff and 2nd rounder designations are overstating what he actually is. Which is fine too, because if we get even a quality MR out of Dunn then we're automatically a lot better. But if this kid can legitimately throw 3 offspeed pitches over for strikes plus dial up the fastball, and if at least one of those offspeed pitches are average or better, then this deal is a massive steal for Hahn. In fact, you know what wite? You were right. A's are eating a tad over $1M & I didn't think the Sox would get a prospect with any pulse whatsoever without at least eating the full amount save for the leagume minimum. You're right, wite. I was wrong. This deal is a whole lot better than I thought it would be. I have absolutely nothing more to say. I'm absolutely, 100% speechless.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 11:30 AM) I hope this doesn't hurt our chances of signing him to a new contract in the off-season. I know Dunn would have given us a "home town" discount previously, but one has to wonder how this trade impacts the viability of that happening. If he would have done it before, he would still do it now. Dunn should not be a primary target.

QUOTE (venom4789 @ Aug 30, 2014 -> 02:44 PM) thats what i get for using espn. but why would they have different scores. Because there are different statistics to calculate WAR. ESPN is typically considered to be the worst calculation. FanGraphs.com is the best and baseballreference.com is second best.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Aug 31, 2014 -> 11:10 AM) The difference IMO is we could have gotten this out of a Dunn a long time ago. I don't think this is true, personally, but I have no proof, so it's not a big deal. This is still better than releasing him outright in Spring Training like you wanted. Now we get a look at Wilkins. Maybe the talent has changed and he can be a worthwhile long term solution.

99.9999% sure on Rodon being signed 98.1333% on Dunn being traded (and I even figured the Athletics would be the team) 100% on wite being dialed Really nice return. Wishing Dunn luck the rest of the season.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Aug 29, 2014 -> 10:54 PM) I take him he can protect abreu. Lineup protection is a myth. Eventually, it will become an idea left in the past.

This has turned into an appreciation thread. This makes me happy and positive.

I know that TUC has trouble expressing himself at times, but I know that he really likes and appreciates everything Dunn has done for this franchise in his time here. We'll miss you Adam!

QUOTE (BaconOnAStick @ Aug 30, 2014 -> 02:42 AM) There is no hope for Matt Davidson. Doesn't say much for our scouts. Eh, guys have bad seasons. It's not like there's any reason to release him. It's been incredibly disappointing, but he's still hit for power.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 29, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) The M's scout said it didn't happen that way... http://seattletimes.com/html/mariners/2024...ntero30xml.html And then he didn't provide details about what did actually happen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 29, 2014 -> 03:18 PM) High Ceiling + High polish = Jose Abreu High Ceiling + Low polish = Dayan Viciedo Low Ceiling + High Polish = Conor Gillaspie Low Ceiling + Low Polish = Out of baseball For the most part, this is a pretty good representation, but I think Gillaspie has better than a low ceiling. He's more of a mid-level ceiling where he can be a good regular but that's as high as it gets. It's hard to pinpoint an exact guy with a low ceiling but high polish because so often those guys end up as AAAA players, but it's also hard to say a guy is a polished hitter when you can see yourself that a guy can make improvements (but ultimately, maybe he can't). I think that the ultimate low ceiling, high polish player is David Eckstein. As far as talent is concerned, that guy had virtually nothing going for him but he turned himself into a very good player in the long run.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 29, 2014 -> 12:39 PM) The issue is that "polish" and "low ceiling" tend to go hand-in-hand. Pray, indulge the following generalization: Player P and Player R have similar numbers, but they produce them in different ways. P has an advanced, polished approach to the game -- he works counts, he plays fundamental defense, etc. R, on the other hand, is extremely raw -- he's a free swinger who makes flashy plays but botches the routine from time to time. P succeeds through optimization, R succeeds through raw talent. Though they've been successful so far, they both hit a wall at AA and begin to struggle. Both being similarly humble, they each turn to their coaches for answers. R, now forced to learn the skills that were never necessary before, finds success after figuring out how to be more selective at the plate and committing himself to a healthy amount of extra reps on defense. P, however, has little left to learn. His coaches desperately try to tweak his swing mechanics and send him to a sports psychologist to teach him to meditate before games, but the only result is frustration and streakiness. Because there's simply nothing left for P to improve, he has reached his peak; P has risen as far as his talent can take him. Typically, "ceiling" is what happens if a player is able to put it all together; to become a master at all the skills required to play baseball. The trouble, of course, is that mastering those skills is far from automatic, hence high bust rates on intriguing athletes that are "risky." While the "safe" ones have little to figure out, they are also risky in the sense that it is incredibly difficult to predict how far their talent can take them. Since they have less to learn, they have a much smaller margin for error. Unless they are drafted as near ML ready, they necessarily have a lower ceiling. I think that the only guys that are both "safe" and have similar ceilings as the "risky" guys are the really obvious, really rare generational talent guys. Those are ones that have the game figured out but have tons of room to mature physically. Nice.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 29, 2014 -> 10:48 AM) Mike Oz ‏@mikeoz 7h #Mariners trainwreck Jesus Montero went after a scout from his own team with a bat because of an ice cream sandwich: http://yhoo.it/YZDXNK To be fair, the scout bought Montero and ice cream sandwich and he was taunting him the entire time. That's simply unacceptable behavior from a scout.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 29, 2014 -> 10:20 AM) How do you know Hawk is drinking in the booth? Just an old time broadcaster joke, like Harry Doyle or Harry Caray. I don't know at all.