witesoxfan

Also, why Jose Quintana would be more valuable: Jose Quintana: 2017: $6M 2018: $8.8M 2019: $10.5M 2020: $10.5M Chris Sale: 2017: $12M 2018: $12.5M 2019: $13.5M Jose Quintana (past 3 years by fWAR): 2014: 5.1 2015: 4.8 2016: 4.8 Chris Sale (past 3 years, by fWAR): 2014: 5.2 2015: 6.2 2016: 5.2 Obviously Sale is superior, yet you actually gain a full year more control of Jose Quintana. Assume they are both entering their prime (Jose Quintana is actually 2 months older, but they're the same age, for all intents and purposes). Say it's their prime, and we project the next 4 years, using nothing but the wite rational projection system Sale ends up at 5.0, 5.0, 5.0, and 4.5 Quintana ends up at 4.5, 4.5, 4.5, and 4.0. There's more going on that that, but look at team control. 17.5 WAR over 4 years is worth what it is, even if 15 over 3 years is worth more in the short term. Jose Quintana is worth a f***load. If the Sox don't trade Quintana this offseason, they will be dealing him this season and hoping they keep him healthy. They should. They should demand almost the same amount for Quintana.

There is no reason that the Nationals would not be interested in Quintana all the same. There's no reason they'd give Giolito for Sale and not give him for Quintana. Frankly, Quintana is going to go for less, but is arguably more valuable. I can't follow as closely, but follow enough. There's no reason that the Sox can't ask for Giolito+ for Quintana. I wonder where Jose Quintana and Tim Anderson for Trea Turner, Lucas Gioloto, and a wild card gets them. Obviously, the Sox are getting the highest ceiling, but it leaves the Nats Robles to still acquire a CF, while still allowing the Nationals a strong SS and getting a strong SP. (probably not the first person to suggest this, I get this when I don't post very often). Also, didn't love the deal, but I am perfectly fine with the deal. Moncada is incredible. The more I read about Kopech, the more I like him. The other two, I could care less about (regardless of talent, Basabe seems like a 4th OFer, and Diaz is a reliever). There's high risk involved, but as long as they don't stop - don't see any reason they do - this is a great step in the right direction. Do as no one has ever done - deal your core of elite talent (and I mean legitimate elite talent - the Sox have had 6 elite talents - Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, Robertson, and Jones, nevermind Frazier, Cabrera, or even Rodon. If done properly, they may win 60 games next year. They may also win 100 games in 2020. I'm OK with it.

I also suggest converting Avisail Garcia to pitcher.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 12:41 AM) I told u guys the Cubs were a lock and to bet the house. Did anybody follow my good advice? Cubs will wrap it up. It's simple, folks. The Cubs DEFINITELY have the better team. Case closed. Yes, greg, despite all of the gambling advice I've ever been given throughout the years, I am going to fold to your gut feel on a game 7, for all the marbles, when the Indians bullpen is fresher than s*** and Miller can come in during the f***ing 4th if he has to, and will bet my life savings on the Cubs.

You don't realize how old you are until you see the forehead acne on Kris Bryant. I count at least 13 popped zits. (or amphetamine use, whatever you want to imply)

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 12:13 AM) The Cubs caught a lot of crap for trading Garland for Karchner I'm glad I can leave for a while and come back to see caulfield still using trades that happened almost 20 years ago to justify ill-will between the Sox and the Cubs. (nevermind that the real ill-will comes from the Sox, when they sent Cotts to the Cubs for Aardsma and Carlos Vasquez, which sent a stroke throughout Sox fandom because they never again knew how to spell Va(s/z)quez again)

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 12:13 AM) The Cubs caught a lot of crap for trading Garland for Karchner I'm glad I can leave for a while and come back to see caulfield still using trades that happened almost 20 years ago to justify ill-will between the Sox and the Cubs. (nevermind that the real ill-will comes from the Sox, when they sent Cotts to the Cubs for Aardsma and Carlos Vasquez, which sent a stroke throughout Sox fandom because they never again knew how to spell Va(s/z)quez again)

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 09:00 PM) The Sox are done being relevant. They are now the Milwaukee Bucks or Cleveland Browns. This will be a cubs town and the Sox will just be here for s***s and giggles. Mainly, because our front office doesn't have a clue. Really funny you didn't use the Golden State Warriors, Dallas Mavericks, or, to continue within the NBA, the f***ing Cleveland Cavaliers within that example. Nevermind the Tampa Bay Rays (who merely were constantly competitive for years and years, despite a terrible payroll), Kansas City Royals, Seattle Seahawks, or Denver Broncos. Save for, maybe, the Broncos, show me the history of winning of those franchises' timelines compared to the White Sox. Also, because it's baseball, the Sox are not done being relevant. In other words...no, guy.

Counterpoint: White Sox will not lose until they score fewer runs than their opponent during 9 inning game.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 06:05 AM) Shields 5.45 ERA looks so much better Those starts were across 3 seasons. And it's not like our guy who replaced him (Danks) was any better. But we'll trot guys like Shields out there in their age 36-37 season just because they are paid the most. So basically, to have any prayer of contention in the coming years, Fulmer will need to come up and be a #3/4 caliber guy from day one. The question is, if we can't afford to cut loose bad players who are paid a lot why are we aggressively trading for wild cards with a financial commitment lasting 2-3 seasons? Organizational philosophy here is terrible. Incorrect. Those stats were across 4 seasons. He was given multiple opportunities on multiple occasions and failed multiple times. The White Sox gave John Danks 88 starts to see what he had left. They got rid of him because he was DNR. Shields' has life, he actually has stuff. Stuff doesn't mean you're good, but if you think he's done because he's had two bad starts with the White Sox, 3 bad starts in a row, and that the Sox would be better with Danks, then I have ocean view property to sell you in my backyard buddy. "if we can't afford to cut loose bad players who are paid a lot" I've missed a bit the past year a half or so, but this year alone, I've counted John Danks, Mat Latos, and Jimmy Rollins. What other player would you cut that fits your criteria?

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) Make it 3 starts in a row that Shields has got rocked. I've never mentioned the word ace and James Shields in the same sentence. Shields keeps this up and he will be a DFA candidate just like Latos. And 5 starts in a row that Chris Sale has looked like a mid to back of the rotation starter. I can hear the fans screaming "WE WANT JOHNSON! ERIK JOHNSON!"

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 08:10 AM) But James Shields will likely make us regret trading for James Shields and his 2.5 year encumbrance. Erik Johnson won't be a top of the rotation guy, nor probably a mid., but he can provide competent back-end performance. Sox will be lucky if Shields provides that Sox seem to find little value in back end young pitchers or position players their eagle-eyes for talent deem "utility"...yet they repeatedly trade or otherwise acquire veterans who can't even provide that. Erik Johnson is Dylan Axelrod with a fastball that is 2 MPH faster and a worse breaking ball. James Shields has actually had success and knows how to pitch. I've never seen anything from Johnson that suggested he had command or control or dominant stuff to get me excited about him. The only thing that ever gave any sort of excitement were his minor league numbers, and I've learned to take those with a grain of salt. James Shields also hasn't suddenly lost the entirety of his velocity or his command. He just needs to be a league average pitcher. If he can't do that, then they have problems.

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 07:44 AM) raBBit - Assuming Collins signing goes as planned; what is a REALISTIC timetable for him? 1-3 years, best case, never, worst case - the latter goes without saying, but is unlikely. However, guys that show patience but mediocre plate presence need to take a step forward. So, to answer the question for raBBit...nobody knows. QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 07:21 PM) Let's hope they do. For #26, it shouldn't be a question. You draft a starter, not relief pitcher that Hahn can rush up. Yes, you draft a starter that you don't rush up as a reliever, and then let him spend a year as a reliever in the majors before he turns into one of the best starters in the majors. Oh, you mean Burdi, and not Chris Sale. My apologies. EDIT: I f'ed that last part up. Chris Sale did spend 2 years as a reliever. If they think Burdi can be a starter, and he works out, then awesome. If he can add something this year (without giving up a walk-off grandslam....again), then who cares? That's immediate value out of the draft. If he can't, no big loss.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 12:14 AM) Exactly. What are New Orleans strip clubs like? I heard the ones on that major street, Bourbon Street, are real ripoffs. And there are 5-6 of 'em. They try to fleece you for $$$ and do nothing in return. LOL. You are a bit harsh on him but yes, your best man is cool. A ballgame would be a good bachelor party. Hell if you want another mini BP go to a strip club two nights before the wedding. Not the night before. But don't tell the strippers its your bachelor party for reasons already mentioned. I'd love some horror stories of wedding/bachelor parties. I've been best man for several guys and we always did the strip club thing to end the night but I'm proud to say no aggression from the strippers. It's kind of fun when the strippers have 10-20 guys to pick from. Can be a fun time. The bachelor party in Vegas I referred to included some guys with real $$$. My buddy is from Dallas and I was one of the KC area contingent to meet. Well one rich guy rented a limo and we get on the limo and there are girls in there, strippers. Two of the guys stayed on the limo when we got to the club and paid for services. It was when Crazy Horse Too in Vegas was THE fun place to go. You walk in and there was a big vat of beer with strippers selling it. Instead of having to go to the bar or have waitresses all the time. I knew right away this was gonna be fun. Ice cold beer for regular bar prices, not 11 bucks or something cause it's a strip club. It was like 3 bucks a beer. Zillions of girls in the club. Most of em Vegas gorgeous. Like I said, these guys had $$$ so we had a ton of girls to pick from. My bachelor party horror story was a guy in Lawrence was getting married. I was a bit older than most of the participants but I was in his wedding so I went to the bachelor party. It was in a strip club. Yes Lawrence has a few lame strip clubs. Well this groom to be got s***faced, so drunk. I wasn't even drinking and there weren't many strippers. So the party ends when the groom to be pukes. All his "friends" leave the strip club, flee the strip club and I tipped the staff for cleaning up his puke. So the groom didn't drive there. I had to drive him to his place where his fiancee greets us as I carry him to the door. She screams at me for doing this to him. I told her politely I didn't do it I'm just delivering him home as he couldn't move. Anyhow the next night at the rehearsal dinner, his dad was a butcher and we had the BEST STEAKS ever. The groom to be STILL was sick and couldn't eat the steak. I'm telling you if you like meat, it was the best steak EVER. Huge and perfection. Some of the stodgier aunts and uncles kind of didn't understand why the groom to be couldn't eat his steak. It was still kind of uncomfortable. The next day was the wedding and he STILL was a bit sick. He couldn't drink at his own wedding and his appetite had barely come back! Never have the bachelor party THAT close to the wedding day. I've also heard of bachelor parties where the groom gets so drunk they put him on a train and he didn't know where the hell he was when he woke up. He was like 600 miles from home and barely made it back for the wedding. OMFG, yes Greg. So many yes's that I don't even know how to pluralize it, so I'll just give you 100 more "YES's" YESx100 I love this story.

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Wuh? Everybody but Eaton hit K-Rod and/or got on base that inning. Avi struck out in the 11th to Sanchez in 4 pitches. "The Patience" He sucks. Hey, whats up Brando

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 12:28 AM) Ventura killed rally tonight by staying in the dugout...should have pulled Cabrera and Garcia from the game at some point and stuck Coats out there just to see what he could do. But of course we can't survive without Avi's offense. No, Caulfield.

like this sweet dinger? (see above) NO, SWEET DINGERS (these?) /fights off flying chairs, papers, Twinkies, bottles of crown Royal, Indian motorcycles, Tiger lillies YES HAY DID YOU GUYS SEE THAT PAUL MOLITOR IS STILL PLAYING FOR THE TWINS

JIM THOME. I'M, AVAILABLE AS LONG AS YOU HAVE SWEET DINGERS

HEY GUYS ITS JI

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 08:20 PM) Oh I think the mangers matter... What would baby Jesus have been born in if not for the mangers? Probably a cowpie. "Away in a cowpie, just s*** for a bed, the little Lord Jesus just shat where he stood."

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 05:25 PM) Sox are so dysfuctional. They are gonna let Shields go out turn after turn and pitch way worse than Erik J would have. Dumb. Erik never had a fair chance here. Shields blows. He's worse than Danks. Erik Johnson started 19 games for the White Sox at the major league level, put up a 4.73 ERA, a 5.82 FIP, a 5.01 xFIP, a league average strikeout rate (7 K/9), a below average walk rate (4.5 BB/9), and his fastball velocity maxed out at 92, in 2013, in 5 starts. If the White Sox miss Erik Johnson that badly, they can probably trade for Dylan Axelrod. And he never got a fair chance. No, Greg.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 08:29 AM) For $10 million a year I expected more than the 8+ ERA he's putting up... there is some ground in between ace and 8+ era Chris Sale's last 4 starts: 6.75 ERA, 1.90 WHIP, .351/.402/.557/.959 splits against (still with a .420 BABIP, which is obviously entirely unsustainable) You are making judgment calls based on 2 starts. Step off the ledge and relax.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 04:01 AM) And Blake are you drunk or just bored out of your mind? You are posting at an alarming rate tonight. (or should I say morning?) Both? Guys, I think I'm bipostual.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 03:50 AM) So you still think the Sox would have won had Ventura remained in the game? His biggest supporter around here didn't believe this to be the case...thought we would lose regardless of who was managing. Considering the Sox had already made their comeback and scored 70% of their runs, I think it's safe to say that, yeah, they would have. It's not like he would have gone to Leury Garcia in the 11th inning. Also, considering this was the White Sox biggest comeback win in 14 years, I can see why ANYBODY would believe that they'd lose this game. But no, it was all Rick Renteria telling the hitters to make sure they went up and had "good at bats."