JohnCangelosi

Go ahead and flame me all you like, I am just telling you like it is. I also got flamed for being the only one on this board who said MT doesn't have what it takes to close and the quicker we realize that the better off we'll be. NOTE: I said this after BS # 1. And I got flamed. Which one of you guys that flamed me is going to man up and realize that it appears, unfortunately, I was right? I'm actually one of the guys on this board that really likes Ozzie as a manager, I just think his decisions cost us at least 5-7 games a year, and last night WAS DEFINITELY ONE OF THEM. And if we lose to Minny by 3 games again this year or whatever, I won't forget last nights game in September like most everyone else will. Every game counts and we cannot afford to just throw them in the trash by making stupid choices in the 9th. Putting MT was a HORRIBLE decision. DEAL WITH IT. But if you want to stick your head in the sand and blame the loss SOLELY on JP, go ahead. Your choice.

Guys, I will go back to ONE OBVIOUS case that just proves the ineptness of Ozzie and his decision making. Remember when we blew a 5-1 lead against the Cubs at Wrigley with Liney on the hill? D Lee hit a 3 run shot off him to make it 5-4 with 2 outs in the 8th I believe it was. I think 99% of us would have pulled Liney at that point. Not Ozzie. And the next batter hit a home run, tied, the game, and we eventually lost. I remember screaming at the TV during that game before the game tying homer at Ozzie to get Liney out of there. He should have been fired for that decision, really. It was such an easy call, but he can't get it right. As Fathom pointed out in that game, you bring in MT in the 8th and Bobby in the 9th and if they get 4 runs tip their cap to them. It's our arch rival and Guillen is clueless. Put simply, Ozzie routinely makes the wrong decision in when to leave in a pitcher and when to pull him. And I am NOT talking about after the fact. I am talking before it happens, we are screaming about it, and sure enough, his decisions cost us games. Last night was pathetic. Anyone else but MT in that situation. Really, he has not been himself in the closer slot. Are we blind or are we just going to ignore this and keep losing games over this? When we're chasing the Twins by 2 games in August you may remember these s***ty decisions. People just don't want to admit it here. You guys were hard on Bobby when he closed 41 out of 45 games. HA! Try 0 for 3 for Matt. Bottom line is the Twins never lose a game like we did last night all year long, most likely, and if you guys want to excuse Ozzie be my guest but as for me, I am going to call a spade a spade.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 09:11 AM) It's because they think his personality would jump start their team. Yes, that's exactly why. Once they see his ridiculous decision making during games they'd feel different. It's too bad really, because I actually like Ozzie but just wish he had a good bench coach that would make the decisions for him or at least keep him in check...

I'm sorry if this has been covered in another thread but I haven't seen it on the website or postgame coverage, but why did Ozzie pull MB last night? Did MB ask to be taken out or was this yet another bone headed decision by arguably the worst tactical manager in baseball? Usually Oz will leave our starters in a bit too long, so I am HOPING that MB asked to be taken out. But with the way he was dealing last night, how could you ever pull him out at that point unless he asked for it?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:16 PM) Hes got at most 1-2 real chances left. Even the biggest supporter would have to question at that point. 0-3 I can see is bad luck, but 0-5 thats more than some guys blow in a season. People were on Bobby bigtime on this board the year he saved 41 of 45 chances. Thornton will need to go near perfect the rest of the way to do that. I miss Bobby.

f*** YOU OZZIE! You f***ing idiot just cost us another ballgame. So frustrating having mental midgets making clearly the wrong decisions at every turn

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:39 PM) Im not sure how Ozzie made a professional player drop a fly ball, nor how he forced Thornton to throw an 0-2 pitch down the middle, or Crain for that matter. You pay the players to win games, these are mistakes that you hope a High School player wont make. Nonsense. Ozzie is probably the worst in game manager in the league, especially at making decisions with his pitching staff. This one is on Oz

It's games like this is why we'll most likely lose the division again this year. And for me it's 100% on Ozzie. I'll say it again. The Twins do NOT lose ONE GAME in this fashion this year, where the managerial choices made could not have been worse

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) Juan messed up, no doubt...but that was 3 hard hit balls off our closer and I, for one, had absolutely zero faith that Matt would have gotten the third out any way, making the error academic. He looks like absolute crap out there. An 83MPH slider down the heart of the plate to the leadoff hitter was pretty much all I had to see to come to this conclusion. +1

QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:29 PM) in his career ozzie has been a lot of things, but a manager with a short lease, i wouldn't say so. I just can't imagine MB saying he was tired, but you're right usually he leaves the starters in too long. He looked so good in the 8th...strange...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:25 PM) I'm quoting this just because it needs to be said again. There is no way that Buehrle was taken out by ozzie. Mark had to tell him he was tired. I HOPE this is the case, I really do. In any event it's a horrible decision bringing in MT. Let's hope we can just get him back to being one of the best setup guys in the game and find someone else to close.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:22 PM) Oh God, this isn't on Ozzie. If Juan Pierre could catch fly balls we probably aren't even having this conversation. For me it is. 3 batters faced, 3 balls SMOKED. Horrible decision pulling MB, horrible decision bringing in MT.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:14 PM) Matt Thornton has got to be mentally done with as a closer. It's a shame, but now you just hope he can salvage his season as a set-up man. I hope he can get his confidence back when going into the setup role. To me, this is a PERFECT example of a game we could potentially lose due to Ozzie's HORRIBLE choices when it comes to managing. 1) Pulling MB makes no sense 2) MT is NOT a closer This is something Ron Gardenhire would NEVER DO. Ozzie needs a bench coach that can tell him what to do...everyone on here knows MB should have closed the game. And if not, for Christ sake put someone else in there other than MT

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:09 PM) AGAIN?!?! That is not Thornton's fault. It's pathetic D for sure but that ball was hit pretty well. 3 batters, 3 balls smoked.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:05 PM) Ugh, hung the offspeed pitch. Just a terrible pitch and a dumb decision to put Thornton in here. If Ozzie doesnt get it after this blown save I am going to lose it

This is really concerning. MB has been dealing all night, I don't get it. And for the record, I miss Bobby in these situations.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) This was encouraging to read Thornton's response... Time will tell if he's correct - I'm very pleased to see him own up like this and be a man of integrity. Hopefully he works out... if not, I am confident in our two other options. Yes I have been hard on MT regarding his ability to close but there is no doubt the guy has the physical tools to do it and do it well. However, that said, I still like him in the setup role and with Sale in there closing. It didn't bother me one bit he gave up a homer yesterday, he kept dealing and generally looked confident out there.

I would take 5IP with 1ER any day of the week out of Humber. It would be nice to get 7 strong out of him today.

IIRC didn't Ron Karkovice hit an inside the park grand slam???

That's about as full out as you get when making the catch...if that ball bounces off his glove it's maybe an inside the park grand slam

I didn't see last nights game and just saw the highlights. That D in the 9th was brutal. I've been harsh with MT and it appeared he would have closed that thing out last night, what a disgusting loss by this team, they better get their defensive act together.

I said it after the first blown save and got flamed for it but I am going to say it again: Matt Thornton is NOT a closer. The quicker we realize this the better off we'll be. Keep him in his traditional role as a setup guy where he's been one of the best for the past 3-4 years. Period. /end of story

Anyone but MT in the 9th. There is no reason to bring him in after 2 innings yesterday. We have others who can potentially close we should give them a shot...

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 7, 2011 -> 03:27 PM) Cause if Bobby Jenks was still here, we would say, "Forget the insurance runs, let's keep it a one-run game! In Bobby we Trust!" Ok, be as sarcastic as you'd like, but when Bobby was on I knew the game was over when he came in with the lead. Period. And I don't have half the trust in MT as I did with Bobby. As I say that, looks like MT is coming in for the 9th. I am holding my breath

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 7, 2011 -> 03:19 PM) Great game from Jackson. 120 pitches is a lot in April but he definitely was on his game today. Wouldn't mind a couple insurance runs here though. It's a sad case for your closer when you're thinking this. I for one miss Bobby Jenks, even though I realize we had to let him go....