caulfield12

Kendricks, Hammel, Haren and Wada were fairly pedestrian....it was just that Arrieta was that excellent, along with solid contributions from Lester. So pretty much like the White Sox, top heavy because of Sale and Q but not especially balanced. Rodon's second half really helped maintain the numbers as well as Shark tanked.

Let's take the opposite approach. Anderson's ROY in 2017, Fulmer's rookie pitcher of the year in 2016 and Rodon's in the Top Five for Cy Young balloting next year as well. Montas is the equivalent of Herrera/healthy Joel Zumaya. You still need some breaks. The overuse of the cutter not to wear down Robertson's effectiveness by 2018. You will need to replace Cabrera and Lawrie and the only long-term projections you can make are with Anderson, Eaton and Abreu. With no catcher in sight, you're still looking at that position, 3b (Trey M.), two of the outfield positions (unless Hawkins miraculously figures things out...and also where Upton would come in handy as he would still be 29 in 2018), DH and possibly 2b depending on what happens with Sanchez and Micah Johnson. With no Upton and Hawkins...it's hard to imagine where the power is going to come from. Trading Adams? Maybe an international signing from Asia or more likely Cuba? Logically, they would fill in those spots with cheap but elite defenders like Rondon and maybe Engel but it's going to continue to be a struggle offensively. It's just so hard with all the position player flops to imagine Anderson as an All-Star and also count on 3-4 more positions to be handled via internal options. We know that from Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez, Trey and Micah we'll be fortunate to have one starter among them in 2018. Trading Sale or Quintana seems to be the only solution to getting a more balanced offense since they're not going to continue to try to spend their way to one like last offseason.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 05:41 PM) Everything that Balta and Blacksox said 100%. I don't mean to make this personal but what's wrong with you guys who want Montas in the BP this year. This year doesn't mean a damn thing. If we are going to give some of these young guys a chance then let's really give them a chance to be what they can be. The Sox don''t need instant value or gratification for Montas they need him to be a starter. A lot of you seem to believe in Fulmer and Adams why not Montas ? Is it because you actually know more about Montas and because of that the shine has worn off ? Fulmer and Adams have a long way to go before they reach Montas' level. The Sox look they they are trying to build an elite starting pitching staff controllable for years so they can compete for years. Maybe in 2/3 years that staff will be Sale, Q, Rodon, Montas, Eric Johnson, Carson Fulmer and Spencer Adams . That's 7 guys ,4 of which are unknown qualities atm. There's a decent chance half of those 4 fail as starters . When that happens then great, try them in the pen. None of the 4 are no where near failure as starters yet. Montas has at least a good 2 years to try to succeed as a starter and he has progressed rapidly in he minors. Why shouldn't he have the chance to keep developing ? It may slow down some as the competition becomes stronger but that's the natural progression of pitching. This may come as a shock to some of you but winning might have to wait a few years . Maybe, just maybe ,the Sox think in that 2 years they can get the offense and defense to a place where it can to a blessing to the pitching instead of a curse. If you can rely on any of Sale/Q/Rodon/Abreu/Eaton not getting hurt, sure. Heck, a year ago we would have seen more Danish and Hawkins talk, along with Avi and Micah as well. Heck, Webb was going to be the closer of the future, too. The fact of the matter is that with all the uncertainty surrounding Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez and EJ, they almost have to hit with two out of three from Anderson, Fulmer and Adams. Anything less than that success rate before 2018 and the balance of the scale is tipping towards rebuilding again...as much as that will hurt in the middle of their media/broadcasting rights early negotiating window. If they do pass on Gordon, Cespedes and Upton in favor of fiscal responsibility after wasting so much the last 2-3 seasons...then there's no choice but trading Sale or Quintana and hoping for a return like Cliff Lee, Phillips and Sizemore....the Teix to ATL deal or even Escobar/Cain for Greinke. It's just doubtful our divided front office can pull it off because by the time they have reached consensus, another team will already have exploited our hesitation and used it to their advantage. Right now, they seem more concerned with leveraging some profit out of a sunk cost in LaRoche than competing in Year Two.

Look at it the other way, I guess... How important is this friend? Let's say your male friend knew your wife was cheating on you...would you not want him to tell you? Should men be more loyal to "protect" other men or is it simply the fact you're closest or closer to the man? Then ask yourself if you would still keep it a secret if the married woman/wife was 25-30, looked like a Victoria's Secret model but the Kansan next door version AND she was likely to be driven into your arms if she knew he'd cheated a second time and was likely to decide to throw in the towel on her relationship? It's easier to defend the man (the whole she's getting older, her body changed after kids....no longer passion or chemistry in marriage excuse) but if the shoe was on the other foot and she was cheating on you with a younger, richer, more attractive man....why does society have the perception that's even worse somehow?

What would Tim Tebow do? Would Jesus also follow the "bros before hoes" line of thinking? What about the pastor or minister...if he had firsthand knowledge of a repetitive pattern, would anyone objective and outside of the relationship really accept the sexual addiction copout/excuse? Even if you were closer friends with his wife than the guy? I always feel like telling someone it's going on again is much easier than "ruining" the trust in the first place...then it's on her 100% to live with the consequences of staying despite the Near certainty he we will cheat repetitively in the future. This idea that guys can cheat because the girl's super hot and younger and that justifies it more somehow is pretty dubious. Certainly not admirable.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 08:58 AM) i totally agree with creed, i am not a stallone fan, but it provided the next step in life and the new group coming in. if they do a 2 nd movie, i would be interested on the story line. Mr. T/Clubber Lang, Ivan Drago/Dolph Lundgren and Ronda Rousey.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) Not sure. They are rumored to want position players. The problem is the Sox just don't have much in the system to deal. Sox have a few guys at the top that are too much to deal for a guy like Frazier. I think the 15-30 range players in Sox system are similar to most teams. The problem is the back half of the top 10. Most teams trade from that inventory and the Sox just don't have those guys yet. Unless Cincy took something headlined by Avi, Micah, Montas, a trade probably can't happen. They'd have to include Trey M. as well.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) Quentin's 2008 year was worth 4.7 WAR (granted he missed the last month). Heyward has equaled or surpassed that number in four years (2010, 2012, 2014 and 2015). Konerko's highest WAR season was 3.8, and he only had three seasons of 3-plus WAR. WAR would also say Heyward or Alex Gordon are far superior to Konerko, Abreu and post-1997 Frank Thomas. Would the White Sox have a better chance next year with Abreu gone, Heyward or Gordon in the outfield, LaRoche at 1b and Cabrera/Avi as the DH? Not seeing it... Both of those guys are closer to complementary pieces than superstars.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 09:01 AM) And that's not their fault right now. In order for someone to get Sale, they have to rip up their team and farm. Quintana has a ton of value also. Teams gota give up so much. Our best shot was with Arizona and the Braves got it done with Shelby Miller. You can't just trade these guys to trade them or you'll f*** up and not get the right return. We've also gotten the likes of Nestor Molina and Matt Davidson back for our expendable pitchers. Peavy and Santiago were the two deals that were more successful...although Avi has failed, there are still Montas, Lawrie and Rondon representing that fortuitous move. Granted, we should have fought for Iglesias instead...the outfield need was more apparent at that moment.

All they have to do is stick Parra in RF and get someone to take Hammel's contract...Zobrist can play RF but apparently they are committed to him mostly at 2b. If they don't trade Baez, he could end up in RF as well.

The odds of the White Sox giving Machado $225 million...not nearly as high as when they came in second on A-Rod back in the day.

Creed was pretty darned good...albeit the sequence of boxing-related events about as likely in real life as Draft Day. And as lost as Mr. Jordan was in Fantastic Four, this was a far meatier role....he had the same director to work with as Fruitvale Station, too.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) I would put it more like this: he is a great player being paid like one. Over the past four years, he is 7th overall in WAR among position players. He may not be an elite offensive player, but he is that defensively. This is just a great signing for the Cubs. If the Sox signed him, he'd instantly be the best player on the team, and probably the team's best overall player since Magglio. As a Sox fan, welcome to hell for the next decade. 2008 Carlos Quentin says hello...yet another player whose career with the Sox didn't quite end up fulfilling its early promise. You could probably get quite an argument from Konerko fans on the Magglio point as well.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 08:11 AM) I honestly believe Theo/Jed are bluffing. Heyward is such a question mark in CF. There is no way they go into the season with Schwarber and Soler as the corner OFs. That D would be bad. I still think Heyward is their RF on opening day and Soler (or Baez) is dealt for a CF. Or they could sign Span or bring back Fowler. Otoh, they have lots of trade options and it's probably nearing time to start cashing in some of those prospect chips...keeping the payroll relatively controlled from here on out.

Lester and Zobrist deals are arguably much bigger risks...or a potential Arrieta one. Heyward fits perfectly into their timetable over the next 3-4 years of his prime. These days, you have to excel at scouting and development, dip significantly into the international market or be willing to spend big bucks in free agency. The White Sox simply don't have a niche yet and that's why they have consistently ended up with second and third tier free agents over the last decade. There are only three exceptions. Abreu, Robertson and Dunn.

Six months ago Cargo wasn't even worth a Top 5 prospect...it was more of a salary dump like a Rios situation. The Rockies and Reds aren't going anywhere with either of those two, and Cargo is risky in terms of salary, injury history and uncertainty of performance outside of Coors/in the AL. No way I'm giving up Anderson or Fulmer unless they're eating salary.

Eaton's bat is fine. His defense should be better in LF. The main question is how well Thompson holds up and whether the insurance policy of a Parra, Austin Jackson or Snider would be worth the opportunity cost compared to signing Desmond for SS or another veteran starter because of lingering uncertainty about Erik Johnson within the org.

If you start with names like Montas and Adams, it's more logical. The problem is our timing has probably been pushed back to 2017 and more likely 2018 (because of the dearth of FA options next offseason.) That would give Tim Anderson one plus years to get his feet wet. But I'm not sure how it would really help the team quickly enough...compared to just waiting on Trey and seeing how things go for him this year first. We'd be better off targeting a long-term catching solution.

99 Homes was excellent, albeit quite hard to stomach. Michael Shannon movies tend to have that effect...which means he's doing his job well. Andrew Garfield was the perfect foil for his avaricious real estate broker. Room, Carol, and Beasts of No Nation are next on the list. Trying to decide whether to see Point Break here in China...already been out a week since it's a co-production so it skirts the 34 film limit of imported US films per year.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 06:39 PM) Those were two bad teams trying to get better, this is a really good team who has gotten a lot better. They're obviously not guaranteed anything but they're absolutely one of, if not the favorite to win it all going into the season. Zobrist and Heyward will be perfect additions for them. Maddon knows how to get the most out of Zobrist, and Heyward has extra/added value defensively protecting Schwarber and Soler/? on his flanks. The Cubs are still in a great position to bundle all of their prospects and Baez to bring back Ross or one of the young Indians' pitchers. Scott Shields might be another option. They have a lot of opportunities left to investigate and the excess pool of young talent to entice any number of teams that salivated watching the Kimbrel, Giles and Miller moves. Arrieta will probably regress, but they still have Lester, Lackey, Hammel, Kendrick and Adam Warren for depth. (And one of those last two starters could be added to any package). The bullpen has its soft spots, but no team is perfect.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 06:29 PM) I'd still confidently say we're better than the Tigers. However, every other ALC team is better positioned than us to compete. All of these minor moves may have us projected to win a few more games, but we're STILL not in any better position to win our division. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather Hahn not just assemble a team maybe, if everything goes right, they'll earn the second WC and once in: "anything can happen." Enough with assembling a collection of players, assemble a f***ing team; one capable of sustained success. If Hahn is going to keep Quintana, Rodon and Sale entact, he has to sign Upton or Cespedes. Even with either, we're still going to win less than 90 games if everything goes right. But atleast you're taking advantage of a tremendous rotation with a significant offensive upgrade http://espn.go.com/blog/detroit-tigers/pos...llpen-additions http://espn.go.com/blog/detroit-tigers/pos...spring-training At least they're trying. If Victor Martinez returns to half the hitter he was, along with Kinsler, Miggy, JD Martinez and then they've got as good a chance as anyone to bring back Cespedes or add Gordon/Upton...assuming Verlander is the same pitcher he was in the last two months and Norris recovers, they're going to be better than the White Sox. Zimmermann was the best option in terms of years and value on the pitching market imo. Maybin will be serviceable in that huge CF and Iglesias and McCann both outperformed their projections. They dumped Price and Cespedes at the perfect time...while we were caught flat-footed and indecisive with Shark.

If the White Sox were actually in the middle of their three year window, they'd be signing Alex Gordon, Cespedes or Upton, adding a 2nd/3rd tier starting pitcher and figuring out a way to shore up SS. All of those moves made before 2015 had a much bigger (negative) impact than anyone could have imagined. We're likely to be stuck with Dexter Fowler or Span as our big outfield acquisition, or more likely...Austin Jackson or Travis Snider. The fact of the matter is that between the Cubs and the rest of the American League Central being better positioned than us for the next two years (just wait, the Tigers aren't done spending), it's hard to see how they even have a chance to compete before 2018...and by then you're also risking injuries or a decline from Sale, Abreu, Q, Rodon and Eaton. The only way it (competing) seemingly happens is if Tim Anderson and Fulmer become close to All-Star level players, Rodon takes the next step up in his progression and Montas becomes a monster out of the bullpen. What are the odds? Avi has already flopped, and he was viewed by most as a core member of the future offense entering 2015. As it is right now, unless they're willing to spend significantly or make at least one high impact trade, there's simply zero reason for them to hold onto the likes of Cabrera and Robertson...because there's not going to be a single team in the Central they would be favored to beat as currently constituted.

I will return when one of Hahn, KW or Ventura is gone. Maybe both. At any rate, it has been fun...there are a lot of cool White Sox fans here.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2015 -> 10:18 PM) The won a World Series working together. You really have no idea what you are writing, Ten years ago. And that's before KW stopped making good decisions and Hahn at that time wasn't quite yet the future threat to KW's power. Just like Ozzie and KW had a functional relationship as well at that point. It was clearly a subordinate/mentor relationship. Now the dynamics have changed, and not for the better.

''I'd hit them over the fence. People would gather to watch the little kid,'' says Epstein. ''But that came about 20 years too early to maximize my earning potential.'' He made the Brookline Little League All-Stars but says he was ''a second-tier player'' as a pitcher at Brookline High School. Paul says his brother ''didn't have overpowering physical gifts, but I think he made up for it with pitcher's intellect. He didn't have the fastest fastball, but he had a good sense of what pitch to put where.'' Though his parents attended all of the boys' soccer games, they had a hard time watching Theo on the mound, worrying he'd lose. ''I was too nervous,'' says his mother, who has saved all the boys' trophies and sports memorabilia - her ''archival vaults'' - in the comfortable old Brookline apartment where she raised three kids and where she is now compiling a scrapbook of Theo's latest venture. http://www.brooklinehighalumni.org/epstein.asp In the end, it's vague because he was a pitcher, but he was apparently a starter in soccer at least and his brother still is the Brookline coach in that sport to this day. I suppose we can debate the merits of that. But the two brothers at least grew up in a family where sports were integral.