caulfield12

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 08:13 AM) I can't see how not trading HURT the "Rebuilding". It didn't help it right now, but it certainly didn't hurt it. Shark was really the only piece that had any sort of value. I imagine a Kazmir like return. A lot of people are high on that return, but was it really better than a potential 25-30 pick? The A's have a worse farm system than the Sox, and Nottingham ranks 8th in that system. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever the Sox take with their comp pick ranks in the top 10 right out the gate. It we had Posey or Molina or Yan Gomes or Sal Perez or Matt Wieters or Russell Martin or Yasmani Grandal, nobody would care much about Nottingham.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 07:28 AM) Announced attendance was just a little over 30,000. I thought it would be more. 30,359. The Blue Jays had under 30,000 at home on a Friday night against the Royals (Cueto starting, too) with all of the momentum in the world behind them this week, the trades for Tulo/Price, "best offense in the game 1-6," etc. Just like the Sox, teams that have been losing for many years (going back to the World Series teams in the early 90's), it takes time for the fans to jump back on board and trust the organization again 100%.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 10:42 PM) Sitting back tonight and trying to digest all the events of today since I was first told Billy had passed. A couple things I didn't put in his OBIT story come to mind. Every time I'd call him just to talk or to ask a question about the Sox or when he played he'd always answer "Hey there kidoh!" And he always sounded so happy. Like he never had a bad day in his life. One time I told him, "Billy you're never going to die..." He looked at me and said 'why?' and I told him "because you never pissed anybody off. God won't take someone who was such a nice guy." He laughed. I guess God needed a damn good left hander. Hope Billy says hello to Nellie, Sherm, Big Klu, Early, Gerry and Bob Shaw from all of us fans. Mark Gerry Staley?

Speaking of the #12 pick, we're now tied for 11th with two teams, the Tigers and Padres. 3 1/2 GB of the wild card spot, 5 1/2 GB of last place in the AL (Oakland A's).

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:51 PM) How many years do we have to appease these f***ing people by keeping a flawed team entact to avoid screams of White Flag!? I would have White Flagged this team even if we were tied for the wild card. However our front office lacks convinction and cares about further affecting an already meger attendance. Oh no, they'll fall behind CLE, TB and Oakland in attendance!!! Not sure that's even possible. But the franchise is worth $800 million - $1.2 billion!!!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:39 PM) Except those are the people they are trying to keep engaged. A plan does them no good if their fans think they quit. It really seems the only realistic option is to move, unless they can hit on almost all of their moves like 2004-2005. Otherwise, it's declining revenues vs. the sweetheart deal for USCF, waiting for the 2019 broadcasting rights economic boon and maximizing franchise value for a possible sale. The team's worth more in Chicago, but the fanbase is getting fed up to the point where a fresh start in another city OR new management in place (see Black Hawks) are the only viable choices.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:39 PM) Except those are the people they are trying to keep engaged. A plan does them no good if their fans think they quit. But, otoh, if you allow the fans to "intimidate" the front office out of making moves, you're done before you start. Well, we can't do XYZ because of White Flag. Leading to, we can't realistically compete next year without trading away XYZ, which constitutes surrender in the minds of fans. In the end, they either don't have the will to win or the front office was nuts to think they could hang with these other teams like the Blue Jays, Royals, Astros and even the Rangers who were all operating like large-market teams. (Heck, the team that had just won 4 consecutive division titles just white flagged it when trailing the WC by the same number of games as the White Sox...) So you're stuck in this loop where fear of fan reaction forces you to do things you don't want to do because you know they're not consistent with building a long-term, sustainable model.

Rick Perry, fwiw, had another major brain cramp/freeze when asked this week about his opinion about how guys like Boehner were doing in Congress...he was like a deer caught in headlights and wasn't even close to answering the question coherently. He's one more strike away from being totally wiped out of contention.

Blue Jays win. Mob scene in Toronto. Questionable balk call moved over Tulo to 2nd, Donaldson drove him in. Fwiw, they still didn't have 30,000 on a Friday night after adding Price/Tulo in the span of less than one week against the best team in the AL, arguably.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:04 PM) r u serious..... that is part of this board lore.... all the hype all the excitement .... that is what sox baseball is all about. Manny Ramirez or Alphonso Soriano...on their way to the SouthSide. Come on down!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:14 PM) I still like my plan. "Avi every time you hit the ball to the right side you owe me 40 pushups". You raised it by ten now. He'll be so muscle bound he won't even be able to hit and will have to join the ESPN Bodyshaping Competition instead.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 07:47 PM) 100% wrong. The fact that you referenced the White Flag trade is exactly why they didn't trade Jeff Samardjiza. Sox fans are STILL bringing that up after almost 20 years. Except that trading Shark yesterday would have been understandable. The Blue Jays had a "super team" assembled (like the Indians at that time), the lead was also 3 1/2 games but in this case, the odds were even lower because of the presence of 5-6 other teams in the race and an absolutely horrendous stretch of six consecutive series facing them and the historically terrible offense (except for the recently mowing down 2 last place teams that were slumping). Let's just put it this way....not having traded Shark's not going to sell any additional season tickets, but the fact that we couldn't get a useful position player in return for him's going to make competing next year even more difficult.

QUOTE (asindc @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 07:37 PM) I disagree. Trading to appease fans who want to "do something, anything!!!" is never the right move. If the right deal doesn't materialize, so be it. If that's the case, then the White Sox don't have to worry about bandwagon fans or excuses, they should just do what they think is best for the organization at all times. That's not the theme we've heard for the last decade...that the White Sox can't afford to rebuild because the fanbase won't have the patience or tolerance to accept it. And the problem with the rebuild approach is we didn't even follow that plan today. The only other AL Central team who didn't do much in the last week has a better future (Twins), the Tigers added a lot of prospects/pieces, the Royals are still in a good position through 2017...the best we can argue is that we MIGHT be better off than the Indians at this point.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 06:22 PM) They have had a good month. Pulling the plug right when they get back into it is not a good message. About the same message as getting throttled by the Yankees with Danks next in line...

Balt extended lead to 8-6 now, KC and Blue Jays tied at 6-6 in the 8th... This might be the last week for score updates about the WC. Texas winning, and the Twins down by 3 runs to the Mariners. You'd have to think that the Blue Jays will blow past the Twins.

Toronto has just a scary offense... About to be tied in Toronto, 6-5 KC, runners on 1st and 3rd in the bottom of the 7th, no outs. Madson getting pummeled. Herrera now in. At least Jordan4Life can be happy for AA, haha. Baltimore with huge comeback against the Tiggers as well.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 06:54 PM) Expected throes of despair, saw them, leaving But, if you're a real, die-hard White Sox fan, you're consigned to a fate like the denizens of Dante's Inferno....wandering around through the various circles of Hell.

Since it's baseball hell, it means fans are in the unusual position of having to cheer for the Royals/Cueto to beat the Blue Jays. Cueto blew a 3-0 lead but it's now 5-3 Royals going into the bottom of the 6th. Rodon ERA ballooning from near 4 to 4.69 with this debacle.

And that was the sound of bandwagon fans exiting stage left. Back to the normal White Sox. But yay, we still have Shark's dirtbag grittiness/competitiveness to enjoy for 10-11 more starts.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 06:48 PM) I also don't know why Cooper didn't come out after walking Young Yeah, you're facing someone that all kids with a Cuban-American background probably grew up idolizing in A-Rod with the bases loaded...need to get him to take a big deep breath there.

Only 37 pitches for 5 outs. I think we need to worry more about a "total pitches" count than 140-160 IP on the season with Carlos. Back to the old White Sox we know and love. Billy Pierce and Chris Sale had to be omens.

Back to your regularly-scheduled Bataan Death March the last two months of the season through the dog days of August...where players like 2008 Quentin, 2009 Beckham and 2014 Abreu come to fade away.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 04:09 PM) And let's deal with some reality here. Logically a trade of Samardjiza should have been done if the returns offered were greater than the Comp pick we are looking at in 2016 if he signs else where. But the odds of the playoffs here that do matter to a fan base the team is constantly trying to convince to show up. I'd be willing to bet each writer in Chicago had a White Flag article ready to go if he was dealt, thus decimating any ticket sales for the rest of the year. Instead even the illusion of a chance at the playoffs can be used for some period of time to convince people that it is still OK to show up. If the team had been 1-7 instead of 7-1 on that road trip, that illusion wouldn't have been there. But they didn't and the idea, however small, is planted. The last few days are as excited as I have seen the bandwagon since the off-season. To a franchise that has to beg for fans like a nerd looking for a date on prom night, that has a value. With a more stable fan base, the team could have taken a more conservative approaching, knowing that people would have come back next year. The White Sox don't have that luxury. Much like a boy band, the window is short. Fair enough, but everything's going to reset to "normal" for the last couple of seasons attendance-wise, except for fans of the Yankees and Cubs. If they're more concerned about the PR consequences of trading Shark than they are about replacing C/3B/RF/DH/pitching depth, then that's a problem, because that kind of indecisiveness or paralysis by analysis will lead you to nowhere but mediocrity. We were kind of like the equivalent of the Twins and Rays at the deadline...just meh. At least the Cubs and Twins fans understand (intellectually) their teams got their into contention one year early...and that the odds are probably 25% at best of making the playoffs. On the other hand, Sox fans probably believed their chances were about 10% at best and the work of improving the team and contending for next season got all that much more difficult when there aren't any solutions at C/3B in the FA market. They'll probably pick up a starter (definitely not Shark, and counting on E.Johnson and Danks and selling season tickets based on being in a competitiveness window is nuts if that's their approach) and someone to compete with Garcia, but it won't be a big addition like Heyward/Gordon/Cespedes or even Zobrist. With a more stable fan base, the team could have taken a more conservative approaching, knowing that people would have come back next year. The White Sox don't have that luxury. Much like a boy band, the window is short. And they just killed that window by standing in place and doing nothing. Either go with the KW bravado and try for the playoffs with veterans/big names or go with Hahn's long-term patience/building with younger players with potential approach by trading Samardzija for another version of Montas/Avi. We got neither approach. Just more mediocrity, more sub .500 finishes. We're unlikely to see any more 50+ page game threads over the remainder of the season. The bandwagon will disappear as quickly as it formed.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:09 PM) So basically what people were guessing he'd say hours ago? Yeah, except instead of KW's bravado/aggressiveness...we get Hahn assessing the deadline like his newly acquired mutual fund's disappointing quarterly performance.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) I'd have rather sold shark than buy. But I think standing pat may have been right move depending on his market. For me: 15% of playoff birth + big draft pool money/exclusive window to talk shark extension>>>>>>>> a package that the A's got for Kazmir for example. You sign Samardzija and what money do you realistically have left over for improving 3B, RF, C? They have to trade either Quintana or prospects if they want to realistically compete in 2016. Otherwise, this "competitive window" just got pushed back one more year.