caulfield12

What's the statistical probability of winning when you score first? Around 65-70%? 60%?

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ May 26, 2015 -> 12:01 AM) We score zero runs. Doesn't matter how great we do in the field. Let's start worry about actually hitting the ball. Feels like everyone is mentioning the defense when the offense has been just as bad if not worst. You can't win games when you consistently score 0-3 runs every game. “If you’re not going to score, it becomes very thin. Right now the offense isn’t clicking at all. You’re not being able to put anything in the outfield. Most of your hits are in the infield. They know it, and it’s got to change or you’re going to lose games.” Not sure there's a solution there. At any rate, there's a huge difference between just giving up a run or two in the early innings and the seemingly insurmountable five runs it turned out to be. Psychologically, if you're already feeling "here we go yet again" it's much harder for the offense to get back into the game. We have come back from 3-4 runs down this season, but never 5. Not to mention playing in the eastern version of Oakland's Little Shop of Horrors...Toronto, where we just never seem to play well historically. Have never been a good artificial turf team, and that always was exposed in Toronto, Seattle, Minnesota, KC and TB.

“I don’t know what the purpose is,” White Sox manager Robin Ventura said of Ramirez’s spin. “(Hector is) out of the inning if we end up playing clean." But there’s no question that a White Sox defense that ranks 29th among 30 teams with minus-24 Defensive Runs Saved had its fingerprints all over the inning. Ramirez, who ranks 20th of 29 shortstops in Defensive Runs Saved, also settled for one out in the eighth inning when he dropped a Tailor-Made double play and Smoak made it count with a two-out, RBI single off Scott Carroll. “I was happy (with the grounders),” Noesi said. “We could have made a double play and then the bases should be cleared by the next hitter.” “(The double play) should be turned,” Ventura said. “It wasn’t. It ends up hurting you. After that, Hector battled and got through it. But the only thing really good about the game was it was fast. That was it. We weren’t very good offensively. We weren’t good defensively in that situation, and you’re going to end up losing the game. http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/early-...ox-shutout-loss Have to feel a bit sorry for Noesi...he has been largely abandoned by the defense, and has also been the victim of at least four of his inherited runners scoring when Rodon entered with no bullpen experience as well.

21,748 per game (2012) 21,614 per game (2013) 24,154 per game (2014, finish with over .500 record and not in last for first time since 2003) 31,815 per game (2015, leading the Cubs in attendance at #8 despite LOSING the World Series) 32% attendance increase in that major market, Kansas City. Field a team that wins, you get rewarded. Or even makes it to the World Series and loses. The White Sox had a 50% increase in 2006 over 2004. 26% increase 2006 over 2005.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:51 PM) So the winning that particular season doesn't matter you have to wait until the next season, but that doesn't matter either. Got it. The Sox attendance was lower in 2008 than in 2007 when for most of the season, they either had or were really close to the worst record in baseball. Winning didn't matterr. Now,as the poster posted, the onky wasy fir a season to be successful or exciting is a team that wins a WS. So you don't even know if a season is exciting until it is over. And, for the 10,000 time, 80% of 2007 attendance was in the books before the season even started. Fans still had faith in the team, despite the way 2006 ended. 2007 wiped that out. If you gave the 2007 season ticket holders the right to cancel halfway through August that year, the rate would have been 75%. Those fans were NOT SUPPORTING LOSING BASEBALL, they were locked into their ticket packages but not showing up at games. They were disguised as empty seats but still counted attendance-wise. And, for the 10,000 time, it's not about WINNING the World Series, it's about a team having a legitimate chance to do so. That 2008 team, without Quentin, was dead in the water coming down the stretch and only made it because the Twins choked worse and then there were those final 3-4 games that were incredibly exciting. Nobody in the entire world predicted they would get past the Rays, though. Not even any of the Chicago/Sox beat writers. Other than that, the 2003 and 2006 teams were the last ones capable of making deep playoff runs. White Sox fans are definitely not stupid.

Drew Hutchinson led the AL (and maybe majors) with batting average against leading off innings. .392 and 20 hitters have reached base leading off innings against him. Tonight, no first batter hitting has reached base. You want to criticize Steverson and the approach...we're obviously giving away too many AB's, and the first one each inning is always the most critical in scoring runs. Keep in the mind, these Blue Jays have been terrible recently. 9-14 in May, bad at home...bad recent streak.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:33 PM) Then explain 2009 and 2013 In the end, the team has to win. Even without Quentin. Besides 2005 and the Blackout Game (which everyone acknowledges would have been a loss in Minnesota if not for Hahn's kid lucking out on the coin flip), there's just not enough. Would White Sox fans have honestly been EXCITED heading into those two off-seasons? Not the way the previous seasons ended. Everyone felt 2012 was a fluke, and 2013 and 2014 proved that it was more of an anomaly than a return to even "mediocrity."

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:37 PM) He shoudln't be done yet. It's not like if he gives up a run or two in the 7th that we're going to lose the game more. No, we'll use Carroll, then Robertson, who consequently won't be available later this week when we really need him.

QUOTE (jeffro2525 @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:35 PM) If Hector is done for the day let me just say good job buddy. Did. His. Job. He's the only Sox player who can say that today. You know things are bad when we're praising a pitcher for giving up ONLY 5 ER in 6 IP. Player of the game. Or Beckham.

The White Sox would be better off having Dan Jennings the pitcher as their manager. That way, there could be two managers with the same exact name, and also one manager would have traded the other. Carroll warming up...or just getting work in. Not sure anyone cares.

Keeping in mind, we're playing TOR without Jose Bautista. Gordon Beckham, after Robertson and Samardzija....might have the most trade value, lol. His play this season has been one of the few pleasant surprises.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:25 PM) Once again atom ant thinks he's a power hitter If Hutchinson's blowing away Eaton with fastballs, we're in trouble. Meanwhile, AJ Pollock to continues to play like a stud for the DBacks in CF...

Soto=Mackey Sasser At least that's something entertaining about this season. Dale Murphy had it as a catcher, had to be moved to the OF. Knoblauch and Steve Sax. Lester, earlier this year. Ankiel, as a pitcher...just completely lost it mentally. YIPS.

QUOTE (jeffro2525 @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:20 PM) This is the stage of the game where the Jays start having less focused AB's since there is no threat the Sox can make a game of this the way the offense has gone over the last week plus. Noesi could go 7 and save the pen. The Blue Jays' crew is feeling sorry for us and worrying that stealing more bases at this point would be a baseball faux pas. Bonfacio padding his stats there. 0/1 stealing bases. He'll probably get thrown out when running would make little to no sense. White Sox offense "in shambles" right now, lol.

"Why does it look like Geovany Soto has never caught or thrown a baseball before?" Hilarious. REAL tweet/e-mail into the Blue Jays' booth. Talking about his Catholic crosses, rubbing it with his hand, writing in the dirt (throwing prep or routine)....seems to be a mental block, comparing him to Chuck Knoblauch. Stutter step, falling forward, throwing off the wrong foot...struggling to get the ball down to 2nd even when warming up the pitchers. Noesi just caught that throw bare-handed, lol. Can't throw the ball down to 3B on a K, either.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:14 PM) Absolutely awful effort How many times have you said that this season? Probably more than in 2007, 2009, 2011 and 2013 combined.

Someone should have looked beyond the stats on Hutchinson. 2-1 with a 3.20 ERA in recent starts. He's also LEADING the majors in run support for a starter, right around 9 runs scored per game when he starts. (Buehrle isn't far behind, mid 8's for run support.) That's half a week for the White Sox. (Not to mention the fact that we almost never play well at SkyDome/Rogers or against Baltimore. Then we have the Rangers (Prince Fielder/Beltre are alive and well again) and Astros power shows to finish off this season, essentially.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:05 PM) Avi on the DL for 15 days during this road trip might well make it rock bottom. Maybe. 2001 and 2007 were entertaining (Jose Canseco! Royce Clayton vs. Valentin, KW/Manuel/David Wells vs. Thomas, Wasserman/Fields/Andy Gonzalez) in their own ways. 2009-11-13 were pretty darned terrible, especially when Rios wasn't in a mood to play or sulking and Peavy was spending more time talking than pitching. Last year, we had Abreu at least. Otherwise, for me, you have to go back to 1986-87, but even those teams were more fun to pull for because nothing was expected out of them and almost all no-name players other than Baines/Fisk.

We would have been better off getting Justin Smoak for nothing than overpaying LaRoche in his mid-30's.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 25, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) Robertson and Avi being clutch And "clutchness" doesn't exist and will level out/return to mean according to all baseball statisticians, so we're left with merely Robertson (unless they should choose to trade him).

The suddenly red-hot/resurgent Texas Rangers did us one favor by just beating CLE. We can't be one game back for last place no matter what happens for the rest of this game, although we are still percentage points behind. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/wildcard.jsp?ymd=20150525 If we do go on to lose tonight, we're only 1/2 game ahead of Toronto and technically still in last, trailing CLE percentage-wise. The rest of the American League, other than the abysmal Oakland A's at 17-30, is all currently ahead of the Sox.

Not to mention the unavoidable "SkyDome turf" exacerbating the issue, surely. He shouldn't play again until Thursday or Friday...if then. We're reaching the point where we have to look at the long-term of 2016 more than the short-term of 2015, and we don't have any capable replacements (Shuck/Thompson) anyway, so making any type of trade would be idiotic. It is what it is.

Once again, nobody has countered all of the teams listed over and over again in this thread that have been brought up. All we hear are comparisons to the Red Sox, Tigers, Cubs, Cardinals, etc., and how their fanbases are more "loyal" or not bandwagon when the majority act/behave just like we do in terms of supporting winning teams and/or superior ballparks or gameday experiences. The only example that might be relevant to us is the Milwaukee Brewers, who once again have their market all alone and a much nicer facility for their fans. I've also provided a link to a website that showed that "local/Illinois/regional" fans were almost exactly the same for the Cubs and White Sox as recently as 2010. (In other words, the only reason for the bigger attendance a full 4 years after the World Series was tourism/Wrigleyville/out of state/regional states fan groups who were drawn in by the historic nature of the park, day baseball, the 100+ year losing streak, etc.) 2008 is very simple to explain. Attendance is a function of the previous season, to a large degree. The same reason attendance was better in 2006 than 2005 is the reason you saw a falloff in 2008...largely due to fact that the 2nd half collapse in 2006 lopped off some fans, and the 2007 disaster wiped out yet another 25% of the season ticket base. If you want to say that 2008 and 2012 were disappointments, show the proof that the walk-up numbers were lower in those years than 2007, 2009, 2011, 2013, etc. Call or e-mail Brooks Boyer. 2012's "disappointing" attendance was likewise directly related to the disastrous 2011 "all in" season...because surely another 15-20% of the group remaining from the excitement of 2008 and 2010 and the World Series was wiped out. If you want to say Chicago White Sox fans didn't support those 2008 and 2012 teams with excitement/enthusiasm/passion, then the better numbers to look at aren't the offseason ticket packages that make up 80% of attendance but the walk-up/week of game attendance numbers for 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. I'm sure you will see a significant increase in walk-up in 2008, 2010 and 2012. Likewise, I'm so tired of White Sox fans being criticized as if they're the singularity event of that phenomenon when it permeates nearly every non-winning franchise in baseball in a similar fashion. We could go to Oakland, TB, Minnesota, Cincy, Minnesota, Colorado, NY Mets, Atlanta, Seattle Mariners, Houston Astros (remember, they had the worst televisoin ratings in history in recent years with an "exciting/rebuilding" team), Baltimore, Toronto, Pittsburgh and Cleveland websites and read the exact same comments, if not worse. By most of the the definitions here, the Minnesota Twins fans SUCK and are bandwagon fans. But they won 6 of 9 division championships!!! They got a brand new outdoor stadium, too....so why is attendance there way down this season over 2011, 12, 13 and 14? Because they've been losing (terribly) for four consecutive years, and their season ticket packages eroded coming into 2015. Walk-up alone won't offset that.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 25, 2015 -> 09:39 AM) The White Sox have obviously been a disappointment and their offense has been terrible. They are lucky to be 19-22 in all honesty. I expect their starting pitching to be better and I also expect Eaton, Cabrera, Abreu, and LaRoche to be better. The White Sox as currently constructed can be anywhere between 5 under and 5 over .500 at any given time. I really think that the Sox will be in position to add to the club come July. I've been looking over some names. The most ideal spots to add would be at C and 3B but those are hard to find. Ben Zobrist Oakland Aramis Ramirez Brewers Martin Prado Marlins Brandon Phillips (2B) Reds Jonathan Lucroy Brewers Brayan Pena Reds Nick Hundley Rockies Willin Rosario Rockies I know that those names aren't terribly inspiring. Zobrist or Ramirez would be nice. I think Lucroy would be a huge addition but will ultimately cost too much. Does anyone have any other ideas? There is already a selling thread so yes I know if it spirals they could entertain dealing Ramirez or Shark. Zobrist and Rosario are defensively limited but would be offensive upgrades. Same with Ramirez, probably. Phillips is interesting...but I wouldn't be in favor of another Shark-Lite deal unless they were legitimately competitive.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 25, 2015 -> 09:42 AM) It seems like you have being a fan down to - this is the team I like, this is the park I go to and enjoy, and I hope the Sox win, but if they don't, oh well, there's always tomorrow or next year. And that's fine. But if that's the way you consume White Sox baseball, without opinions or thoughts on how they could improve, why even post here? What's here for you that gives you joy other than telling other people what to think? Herein lies the rub with the current state of any message boards about sports, but baseball in particular. 1) Telling one how to think or "be a fan" or asserting one type of fandom is superior. 2) This constant back and forth between being overly optimistic, pragmatic/realistic and then pessimistic...and the shouting back and forth between the 1st and 3rd groups. It also goes in line with attacking the front office/Ventura or defending them, usually. 3) Perhaps the worst part of the boards over the last 2-3 years...the substitution for a boatload of statistics and numbers for reasoned analysis that combines the "eye test" and quantifiable support. Either throwing out opinions with no support and/or having endless arguments about what constitutes a reliable sample size to draw conclusions or make reliable judgments...or arguing about opinions, which USED to be fun back in the good 'ol days.