caulfield12

By that argument, we shouldn't trade Santos, Thornton, Ramirez, Danks, Quentin, etc., because they have an established "track record of success," and by definition, no prospects ever would. Or we should not expect Beckham/Dunn/Rios to turn around because of their past 18-24 months of play. We can't predict automatic failure for Humber/Stewart/Sale without accounting for their possible corollary, success. Nobody would have predicted in 1999/2000 that Mark Buehrle would end up with the greater career than any one of a number of about 10 other Sox pitching prospects of that time period when we were the BA #1 rated system.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 08:29 PM) About the only change I would make is instead of it was clear to it is likely. And I'm more cautious, I would not say huge difference. Maybe I'm just too negative right now. Alex Rios hitting 4th, 5th or 6th is still driving me crazy...including tonight.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 07:08 PM) Buehrle will still be here in 2013, IMO, possibly his final year with the team. I wouldn't be shocked if he signed a 2 year deal with a player or mutual option for a 3rd year.

C'mon Marty. You want to trade Santos and make who the closer? Everyone knows, from year to year, every closer is basically a gamble, by definition...unless it's Mo Rivera, Nathan, Hoffman in their primes, Valverde this year. You could have the perfect rotation, the offense clicking 100% and the team might still come up short because of the bullpen consistently imploding like it did during our 4-18 stretch. Without Thornton, Sale and Santos (and even Frasor), that bullpen suddenly becomes the team's biggest weakness, especially when Crain reverts back to his average performance trendline during his time in Minnesota and not how well he's pitched (for the most part) in 2010 and 2011.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 09:15 AM) I also believe they could easily have made the playoffs but we have different "ifs". Mine is "if" a couple key players played at 80% of potential, (which is why I give KW a passing grade). Based on how they actually performed, I don't believe they could have. You believe a different manager could have taken these same performances and somehow gotten them into the playoffs. I'm not convinced that backups to Dunn and Rios could have made up 8 games. We were clammoring for an upgrade at DH, not many people felt we had anyone in house that could fill the role. Backups would have done better, but Oz gambled, and lost, on Dunn eventually coming around. Obviously you believe the backups would have been enough to win the division. I will agree they would have given us a better chance, but I still do not believe it would have been enough. Are you really that happy with this roster? It was clear that Viciedo would have made a huge difference if called up at the start or middle of June...before he had his wrist problem. Of course, that would have meant giving up on Dunn after 2 1/2 months. But with how DeAza and Viciedo have hit, for the most part (which is clearly above the value of a replacement player)...arguments could certainly be made either way. Obviously, DET really has all the momentum going now. I read somewhere where this is only the 4th time in the last 75 years they've (the Tigers) outscored their opponents by such a margin over the course of 5 and 6 games (their recent stretch against us and CLE, including two huge come from behind victories, punctuated by today's GS by Martinez).

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 11:22 AM) What is with the straw man responses? Yes, we made it interesting on August 5th, 6th and 7th, against a Minnesota team we had not beaten, IN Minnesota. Yes, we are done before labor day. Do you see how those two things are not mutually exclusive? Do you also see how the point of making it interesting on August 5th was that we beat the Twins when it actually counted a great deal? But according to the 11-22 start, it was impossible to win the division and nearly impossible to finish over .500, so skeptical fans were never buying into the fact that they were "really" back into the race, even at 3 games back for the very briefest period of time.

Thanks, Bruce Willis. At least DeAza is earning his playing time (HOPEFULLY) for 2012. Hopefully if this is Peavy's last start, he has something to build upon for next spring and he can finally ramp his velocity back up into the 94-95 MPH range and rediscover his slider. Ending up with a sub 5 ERA is also nice...well, it's an improvement of sorts, albeit against a AAA line-up.

Well, no matter what side of the conspiracy you're on...KW or Ozzie/JR, you shall get your answers soon enough in the offseason, one would hope. I don't think JR is stupid enough as a businessman to dare risk bringing his entire management team intact for 2012 (along with Rios and Dunn guaranteed starting roles, and without Mark Buehrle)....unless he wants to plummet to 12-18,000 in attendance per night.

Too bad we won't get to see a couple of Chris Sale 3-4 inning starts. Well, maybe it could happen once they're officially eliminated. Although odds are much more likely for a Santiago/Axelrod nod.

QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 08:57 PM) Here's my all-time favorite -- San Diego SS Enzo Hernandez, in 1971: 549 AB's, 12 RBI! http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hernaen01.shtml At least he was a SS/middle infielder and not a 3B, though. Wonder if he was a leadoff hitter or #9 guy? I would guess the last hitter in the line-up.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) Twins SS just handled a pop-up to center . . . If Alexei Ramirez was one of the 10-15 biggest problems with this team...alas, he is not.

Hopefully Morel can end the season with at least 30 RBI's. Wonder if there's ever been a player at that position to play mostly full-time and end up with fewer than 30 in a year? Maybe Chone Figgins, but he was predominantly a leadoff hitter.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 08:21 PM) I'd really like to see De Aza get some games in the leadoff spot the rest of the way. I hope it's DeAza/Lillibridge and not Rios at leadoff. Wonder if Danks and Milledge will get any playing time the final 2-3 weeks? Pretty surprised they didn't recall Milledge with how well he has hit the last half of the AAA season. BTW, is it possible for Beckham to be any worse? Morel and Rios might pass him in OPS before the end of the month. And Dunn might be down into the 150's. They really would be better off just benching him and giving DeAza/Viciedo/Lillibridge/Milledge as many AB's as possible the final 3 weeks.

If you don't believe managers can make a difference....then look at all the positive energy around the DBacks, Indians, Brewers and Braves, for a few examples. Nationals too, although the letting go of Riggleman was more about wanting to have a different manager for Strasburg, Harper, etc. Sometimes you just have to change the status quo.

QUOTE (forrestg @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 08:02 PM) It looked like Rios until the ball was hit. ??? Waiting for the inevitable middle innings Jake Peavy blow-up. It will be nice to have all of our starting pitchers under a 5.00 ERA after tonight's game.

Watched the first Girl With the Dragon Tattoo...and also read the book. But more looking forward to the Rooney Mara version. Fright Night, pretty darned bad, not getting the relative love at RT.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,6366394.story Ozzie agrees with Greg Hibbard, then goes off on psychologists/doctors and undoes any coherent point he might have made.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 09:01 PM) 4 last year, but you also forget how absolutely worthless he was in tied games/2 inning outings. Not to mention that most of those games in 2010, Jenks had a "more comfortable" 2-3 run lead. There wasn't a huge number of one-run leads that he preserved successfully.

Obviously, there's no such thing as a perfect manager. But there are managers who show a statistical probability of "outplaying" their predicted wins and losses based on runs scored and runs given up...the infamous pythagorean method. In that category, Ozzie's actually +3 in the category for 2011. Which is why it's not the best barometer...just ONE tool. However, +7 Bochy-Giants +6 Roenicke-Brewers +5 Gibson-DBacks +5 Gonzalez-Braves +5 Leyland-Tigers +5 Gardenhire-Twins The only one from a "bad" team on this list is Gardy, who at least 33% of Twins fans would like to get rid of....it's kind of the inverse of the KW/Guillen situation, where about 2/3rd's are against Bill Smith as GM but the majority want to give Gardenhire at least one or two more years with a 100% healthy team. Getting your club to the playoffs six times in nine years definitely should buy a manager a minimum of two seasons. Ozzie's already had 3 underperforming years in a row, and 4 out of the last 5.

Definitely had more movement than in the past 3-4 outings. From watching his Toronto footage, his fastball at 91-93 had a lot of movement. Maybe a "dead arm" period? Seems like he got that life back on his pitches again tonight that was previously missing.

Yep, after Saturday...that was the Jim Thome/Thornton death blow, albeit not quite as dramatic as last year. That and the fact that we never we in first place like last year...at one point, we were up I think 3 1/2 on the Twins in late July or early August.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 08:31 PM) Well my plan involves an Alien conspiracy and pods. Now before you say no, hear me out. We take a pod and give it to Verlander as a pillow. Once he is taken over, the rest will fall. Now plan B involes Zombies, I would personally rather go with plan A as Aliens can be killed with the common cold and zombies require a head shot. Who is with me. Daniel Craig, Harrison Ford and the Cowpokes are with you. At least Stewart's succeeded in bringing his ERA all the way back down to 4.50 almost. Interestingly enough, Diamond and Stewart ended the game with exactly the same ERA, at 4.56

I loved how in Transformers 3, they finally realized you had to "take their eyes" out after almost 6 hours of previous movie/s. So take Verlander's eyes out...that might work. Stake to the heart, crucifix blessed by Pope Benedict, holy water, etc.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 08:29 PM) Well planting his ass on the bench after AJ showed up is not the formula for getting this kid to make contact. Maybe we can promoted the AAA hitting coach before someone from the georgia region decides to empart his knowledge of the dark side to him. Harrelson and Beckham are giving him batting advice, too?

Rios at 588 OPS, Morel finally creeping over the Mendoza OPS at 606... Beckham has almost faded into nothingness at 615.