caulfield12

That at least makes the team more competitive...if they're already going down with the HMS Clevinger, why not double down as the most villainous/hated team in baseball like the Raiders used to be in football? At least then it would feel like they were actively trying to win. This is going to be an administrative death of one thousands cuts rather than a principled stand by the organization anyway.

Well, the one added benefit of almost sheer anonymity in the Chicago market means no tough questions for Hahn and the majority of women won't be following the story unless they are really die-hard Sox fans. Back again to the days when Joe Maddon jerseys were outselling Abreu in the Quad Cities 4 to 1 back in the mid 2010's.

They could add Herrera to the back of the pen for that bargain price. Or get both Bonifacio and Holland.

Brooks Boyer line? Unfortunately we can't just shove it under the rug like LA with Bauer because they actually have the money to cover for such mistakes and a full decade’s worth of making the playoffs in consecutive seasons.

https://dominican.news/sports/elijah-tatis-suffers-a-motorcycle-accident/ Giving Puig family a run for their money. Unbelievable after what his brother went through. Think we can safely count out signing the youngest brother Daniel Fernando/catcher.

Don't think this will work out as well as Pollock. Imagine if he re-upped as everyone logically expected? How much tighter the budget would be...they've now had to carve out Abreu, and weren't able to deal Hendriks/now Graveman or Grandal. (It's going to be no shocker at all when fan favorites/co-leaders Giolito and Anderson are shown the door next as I have written about 100+ times in past comments about this upcoming phase of Sox baseball.) Of course, the major problem is the timing for the so-called next wave is off and is currently limited to Montgomery, Colas and potentially Vera. Just too thin in impact talent if Kopech and Vaughn aren't as projected or even just one key player gets Injured. 11 names.

"My goal would never be to be vindictive or put somebody in the penalty box. I don't believe in that," Francona said. "I do believe in being accountable to your teammates. And I know that they've got some trust to earn back and they're (Clevinger and Pleasac) going to have to earn that back. And I don't know how easy that will be. If I did, I'd tell you. If I had the exact solution, I'd snap my fingers and we'd do it. "There's been a lot of conversations. There will continue to be conversations and we will try to do what we think is best for our entire team." Not only were they not smart enough to hold onto Francona in the mid 90's, they apparently were unable to access this article as well. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/mlb/indians/cleveland-indians-plesac-clevinger-francona-trust/95-349aa756-847f-4787-acfc-e3956067e3ae Well, I guess they helped to turn Carl Everett around so they can "fix" anyone...

Thanks. It's not THAT dramatic, but it's amazing how life priorities change when you get married and especially have kids. And now having lost both parents, it's a reminder of how short life can be. I remember once having a dream of retiring and buying White Sox season tickets every year. Now, I actually feel like an Advanced A minor league team or maybe AA like San Antonio in the past would be the dream...where the players are close (but not not TOO close to the majors) but everything's more affordable like parking or concessions and ticket holders largely come from same social class more or less.

The White Sox have massive problem on their hands. Apathy bordering on disgust for the ownership and management team. There's just no way attendance isn't going to be down another 20-30% based on this offseason, the losses of Abreu and Hendriks, and now another PR nightmare with Clevinger. They're basically just sitting on their hands hoping a new manager and better health fixes things...see 2012 White Sox under rookie manager Ventura, for a recent example. It feels like it has been all downhill since Luis Robert bombed that rocket into CF in Game 3 at the Coliseum after Crochet was injured/pulled. This coming from a fan who used to wake up every day to hand calculate statistics for the 1984-1989 teams from the afternoon newspaper box scores, some of the truly worst MLB offenses in recent memory. While it's totally impossible to change your #1 allegiance in any sport, it's so frustrating to read the news and see the Padres are already planning to go after Ohtani and a long-term extension for Soto with Machado likely opting out after 2023. How can a team with all the media market advantages in the known universe in the AL Central be getting curb-stomped by a team that's anywhere from 27th to 30th for MLB broadcasting dollars? It's totally infuriating. It's not like they haven't spent money, either. They just don't know how to spend it wisely, how to properly allocate limited resources. Hopefully I'm still alive when the next great Sox team comes around...as it's so unlikely to happen in the next 5-7 years.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2021/aug/27/sdqt-former-member-padres-pad-squad-may-have-deep/ "Which makes it all the more mysterious how Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer, recipient of maybe the richest single-season contract in history, wound up in bed with a woman who’d been booted from the Padres' Pad Squad for her fling with Padres star Fernando Tatis, Jr., and who later hooked up with Padres pitcher Mike Clevinger." Seems a lot of the so-called groupies were 18 and 19 years old (not illegal but undoubtedly ill-advised for a married man around 30)...fwiw, the Dodgers have their own group called Las Angels. Once again, all this information was out there publicly with a simple Google search the Sox analytics team could have run if Hahn proved incapable. The whole acquisition was predicated on the "bargain" contract rate for someone with that track record and the theoretical bounce back the second year coming back from TJ surgery.

At least Rick Hahn could write a pretty comprehensive book about how to completely waste amounts of between $4-12 million and never lose his job... Otoh, guys like Rodon, Cueto, McCann, Andrus have (occasionally) worked from the bargain bin.

Then they would have been subject to a lawsuit (at best) and fine as well as successful and expensive civil lawsuit at worst. I guess there's a saying that all publicity is good...but White Sox have been challenging that axiom since the TLR managerial announcement. Finally, due diligence is the responsibility of any organization in the world that hires employees, especially hires over $10+ million per year (along with costly insurance on the contract.)

At the very least, he/Hahn could have looked into the cost of acquiring Adalberto Mondesi. Royals just traded him for a Boston pitcher with back issues.

Or the Guardians? LaRussa could (still, in his new capacity as a team representative) have found out anything he wanted to know with just one phone call to Francona.

Or Mike Sirotka. That will hurt a well-known Sox critic until his last day on earth. (That said, using the same doctor for both evaluations wasn't exactly the epitome of brilliance, either. Both teams are not better off for the next 4-5 seasons, especially SF.)

Also, a certain GM pulled a Hahn thinking he could take advantage of an Indians organization and manager desperate to dump one of its own players (see Big Game James). Didn't exactly work out as planned in either scenario. Two of the 5 worst all-time trades for both organizations. "The trade came shortly after Clevinger and Zach Plesac broke team and MLB COVID protocols to spend a night on the town in Chicago. Cleveland received Cal Quantrill, Josh Naylor, Owen Miller, Austin Hedges, Gabrial Arias and Joey Cantillo from the Padres. Clevinger underwent Tommy John surgery on his right elbow shortly after the trade and appeared in only 27 games, including 26 starts, in his time with the Padres." Cleveland.com/Paul Hoynes

Pretty clear when you trade away six players to acquire a guy and then want absolutely nothing to do with him despite having a couple of rotation openings (and Snell/Darvish not for much longer) that the relationship there had seriously soured. Preller would pretty much sell his soul to win and walked away instead of doubling down on a bad move and making it even worse like some team I'm quite familiar with now by age 53.

See track record of spotty character issues above. Will take side of Terry Francona over Bauer and Clevinger on every occasion. Integrity matters. This isn't about youthful libido. He's a borderline psychopath if you can believe even half of what's out there.

https://theathletic.com/1997516/2020/08/14/indians-send-mike-clevinger-zach-plesac-to-minors-what-does-it-mean/ First, you have all the issues he caused with the Indians/Guardians...Francona, and his teammates. The whole Covid-19 fiasco. Then, you have the tie with the likes of Trevor Bauer (multiple) accusers, Tatis Jr. and Puig...just do a rudimentary google search. You have rumors out there of him never being faithful to a single woman he was with...that he was an active participant with so-called groupies despite taking quite limited responsibility for parenting at the very least. This was before all that stuff coming out today. Not mention that he and Sean Manaea were just not that good in the first place down the stretch with very spotty/inconsistent stuff. He has simply never returned to that dominant form he had in CLE. In fact, one memorable playoff game he recorded either one or zero outs before being pulled. (See Shields/James/Big Game last start before being acquired by Hahn. Mistake repeated. Guessing no other team was willing to go over $8-9 million with his tattered clubhouse reputation.) Also, guess they learned nothing from the TA7 situation this past year. They subtract Abreu, add guys like this and wonder how everything could have possibly gone so wrong when all the signs were there. So no regrets putting White Sox aside until Hahn and/or Reinsdorf are gone. They deserve those billboards about selling the team or even a boycott. (And it's not just LaRussa, you also have Boston, Myers, Cordero, Wally Backman, Vizquel, Wes Helms, D'Angelo Jimenez, etc.)

Fine. I will leave. You win. It's not fun anymore being a fan of this organization anyway. The Sox will never go anywhere with Hahn or Reinsdorf involved anyway. Life is too short to invest any more time in a product with diminishing marginal utility. My son won't grow up with a rooting interest in the Sox either, and the White Sox couldn't care less about that, so neither do I. I don't even have to put a curse of them...they manage to self-sabotage everything themselves.

Taking the popular media media choice for every open coaching/managing position always works out so well. If the Phillies had missed the postseason, why would everyone be talking about Long? They wouldn’t at all. The Phillies’ success rides 100% on the back of massive FA spending, which will never be replicated in Chicago. Now if this is predicated on Long fixing the likes of Bohm and Stott over the course of the season…and that somehow applying to reaching Grandal, Moncada, Anderson and Luis Robert by osmosis, sure. But Grifol at least had six years as a minor league manager, and three winter ball seasons in Venezuela, including a trip to the championship series. The pressure in those games in some ways is more intense than the World Series. But Long hung out with Juan Soto in the stands to cheer on ex teammates. Okay.

Kevin Long is the equivalent of taking a 12 seed or higher’s coach who gets to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA’s and hiring him for a P5 conference. Sometimes it works, the media loves underdog and Cinderella stories, but it usually doesn’t translate more than 20% of the time. Its the same thing with the Saban/Belichick Coaching Tree. Kirby Smart and maybe Lane Kiffin have ended up doing well, but the majority haven’t succeeded. There’s just no way to know, in the end. If you could patent “gives great interviews” and transform it into W/L success, but that has never convinced me ever since KW claimed Robin Vebtura would have been a five star general and was going to be an incredible leader of men on the diamond as well.

This should be pinned at the top of the page when Hahn apologists claim he wasn’t totally onboard with Grifol…

This is how we ended up with Buddy Bell and Mark Teahen.

Could be the White Sox once again trying to prove they don't care what outsiders think about their smartest guys in the room and we're going to do whatever we want to do regardless of whether it appeases the fanbase or not schtick. Time will tell. In a lot of ways, he has just as many similarities to Renteria as anyone. Maybe the primary difference here is more into analytics framing shifting, etc.