Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Nov 18, 2017 -> 12:50 PM) Man is that rotation something nasty Love the Machado and Miller signings, but would absolutely pass on Murphy (I have Abreu at 1B and DH being split between Avi/Delmonico). Flowers is an interesting vet that could split time with Collins, whom I think will get called up this September A bench of C Narvaez/Flowers, 1B/3B Davidson, IF Sanchez, UT Cordell, and OF Palka/Engel/Polo/Tilson/May is what I envision Can't wait, this doesn't even include Robert, Burger, Sheets, or any other '17, or'18 picks either The 2018/19 offseason will be interesting for us because most of the pitching staff will be in place, but several of our key positional prospects will be a year or two or out. I agree that if all goes right Collins may receive a September callup. However, I think we’d be wise to wait until May of 2019 to ensure that extra year of player control. I think adding a veteran like Flowers on a short-term deal makes a ton of sense for us. Nothing wrong with easing in Collins into the full-time role and pairing him with a great mentor to learn from. I figured the Murphy signing would be a little controversial, but I think we’ll need to add a temporary bat at either 1B or DH. Long-term I’m hoping either Burger or Sheets can fill that role, but I don’t see those guys as viable options until 2020 at the earliest. Murphy buys us some time and hopefully can be signed to a shorter-term deal assuming his defense at 2B continues to degrade. I also like the fact that Murphy brings a pro-hit tool to the lineup. And yes, this doesn’t include Robert (who I think might be able to take over the CF job by late 2019), Rutherford, Adolfo, Dunning, Cease, next year’s #4 overall pick, and anything we might get for Avi. There should be plenty of reinforcements arriving throughout 2019, 2020, & 2021.

QUOTE (Soha @ Nov 18, 2017 -> 08:40 AM) These full rebuilds are becoming the in thing to do lately, especially with the Cubs and Astros winning the last 2 World Series. More and more teams are going that route. I absolutely think there will be a team that plucks him away if the Sox leave him unprotected. Maybe even the Tigers. We’re already seeing it. Teams are embracing the tank. Can’t just look at the way things have been done in the past, but have to be forward thinking. I fully expect what the Padres did last season to become more and more common. Maybe not quite to that extent (i.e. three players), but moreso around taking high ceiling, but super undeveloped positional prospects.

I thought this was a relevant comment on Adolfo. Comes from a Fangraphs article on under-the-radar prospects. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/general-man...elow-the-radar/

Free Agents: Manny Machado - 10/$300M (w/ opt-out) Daniel Murphy - 2/$32M Tyler Flowers - 2/$24M Andrew Miller - 4/$64M Trades: Avi Garcia to OAK for SS/OF Jorge Mateo & RHP Daulton Jefferies Roster: 1. L. Garcia, CF ($4M) 2. Moncada, 2B ($0.6M) 3. Machado, 3B ($30M) 4. Abreu, DH ($20M) 5. Jimenez, RF ($0.6M) 6. Murphy, 1B ($16M) 7. Anderson, SS ($1.0M) 8. Delmonico, LF ($0.6M) 9. Flowers, C ($12M) Sub-total = $84.6M IF: Sanchez ($4M) OF: Polo ($0.6M) UT: Cordell ($0.6M BC: Narvaez* ($0.6M) Sub-total = $5.8M #1: Kopech ($0.6M) #2: Rodon ($7M) #3: Giolito ($0.6M) #4: Lopez ($0.6M) #5: Hansen ($0.6M) Sub-total = $9.4M CL: Burdi ($0.6M) SU: Jones ($0.6M) SU: Miller ($16M) MR: Vieira ($0.6M) MR: Fulmer ($0.6M) MR: Guerrero ($0.6M) LR: Stephens ($0.6M) Sub-total = $19.6M Grand-total = $119.4M *Note: Collins would replace Narvaez by the end of June

Alright, I’m bored as hell and want to talk some Sox baseball. Given this offseason should be relatively quiet, I thought we could look ahead to 2019, which could be our first competive season with the right set of moves. So the rules here are simple. Predict the 2019 opending day roster assuming a $120M payroll. Free agents & trades are obviously fair game, but make sure to include the details of those moves. Also, feel free to note if there are any major prospects you expect up early in the season (i.e. only being kept down to ensure an extra year of control). Below is a list of potential 2018/19 free agents for your reference: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/2018...ree-agents.html

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 16, 2017 -> 08:29 PM) They would care because he will take up a roster spot an entire year, and playing a man down is fine for a game or 3 but not 162. And after a year of sitting, you send him back to AA and he is behind from where he was when you drafted him. There has to be someone else available more interesting for them . They’re entering the first year of their rebuild, I can’t imagine playing a man down really matters that much. The Padres just last season took two positional guys that were also 21 and with similar amounts of experience. They played two men down all year. Teams are constantly looking for ways to get an edge and stashing talented, but undeveloped positional prospects on their bench may become more prevalent in coming years, especially with the amount of clubs rebuilding. I mean for f***’s sake, we took an A ball catcher and carried him all year and we weren’t even rebuilding. And let’s not forgot Aldolfo was widely considered as being part of the big three prospects in his signing class along with Gleybor Torres and our very own Eloy Jimenez. Those guys are both top 5 to 10 prospects in all of baseball. Adolfo clearly has a ton of talent and I’m not certain there will be a lot of positional guys available that are more interesting than him. I can guarantee you that there are GMs with quality development staffs out there right now who would love to add a kid with his kind of upside to their system. Again, I think it’s unlikely he gets taken in the Rule 5, but I think it’s definitely a possibility.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 16, 2017 -> 08:01 PM) There is reality. Sitting him a year kills a year of development he can't get back. I really doubt anyone would select him. Why would they care though? They have nothing to lose by selecting him and carrying him on their bench for a year. Worst case scenario they simply prevent him from ever developing into something with a division rival. Best case scenario he reaches his relatively high ceiling with them. I don’t think it’s likely they take him, but I could see a rebuilding team take a shot on him. He’s more than young enough to overcome a lost year of development.

I could easily see the Tigers grabbing Adolfo. Let him sit on the bench for the year and then let him start 2018 as a 22 year old in high A. He’d basically be age appropriate, although I’m assuming he’d only have two options remaining at that point. Regardless, there is absolutely no risk for a rebuilding club to do something like this and I don’t believe the Tigers are exactly flush with talent.

Didn’t someone suggest that the kids that have already played in the US would have to be made unrestricted free agents? I’m not sure if there is actually something to do that, but does anyone recall if those Red Sox prospects fell into that bucket or not?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 16, 2017 -> 07:26 AM) I mean yeah it's probably not a perfect without some pieces moving but they could make it work. Especially since Gattis is pretty much a platoon player at this point. I think if Lucroy wants to rebuild value, he will take a 1-year deal in Colorado. I also forgot they have 4 guys in the OF that should play every day. Man they have so much depth. My point is I just don’t see it being optimal for Lucroy. Didn’t he pass up on a chance to play for the Indians in 2016 because they wouldn’t void his option and allow him to become a free agent a year early? He really doesn’t seem like the type of guy to potentially sacrifice his future earning potential for a better chance at winning a championship in the short-run.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 16, 2017 -> 07:12 AM) Why would he be a part-time player? If anything, it would push McCann into the empty DH spot they currently have. And could probably non-tender Gattis. You really think they’d non-tender Gattis though? He was pretty damn good in 2016 and is already under control. Plus the DH spot isn’t really empty when you consider they have Gonzalez, Springer, Reddick, & Fisher all needing everyday playing time. Best case scenario they dump Gattis and he splits the role with McCann. Worst case scenario it’s a three-way time-share with Gattis getting some playing at 1B/DH. I just don’t see how either situation is desirable for a guy who should be looking for a big payday within the next year so. He really should go somewhere where he’s certain to get the vast majority of the playing time at catcher to rebuild his value.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 16, 2017 -> 01:16 AM) I don't think the money matters if the Astros are interested in Lucroy. https://www.mlbdailydish.com/2017/11/15/166...jonathan-lucroy You think he finally reaches free agency as a 31 year old catcher and he’s going to take a part time role with a competitor rather do everything he can to maximize his long-term earnings? I don’t see that happening at all. If he can’t secure a nice long-term deal this off-season, he’ll probably take a one year deal that ensures him the most playing time in an offensive-friendly environment and look for a better payday next year.

He’d definitely be a guy I’d target this offseason. Convince him that a year at the Cell could help those power numbers rebound. I believe historically he’s been a pretty good framer (not sure about 2017) so help the young staff for a few months before possibly becoming an interesting trade chip.

Alright this is mostly just bulls***, but let’s say this is his team selection process: 1. Wants to hit most days when he’s not pitching (DH required) => eliminates 15 NL teams 2. Wants to join non-established or rebuilding team => eliminates HOU, NYY, BOS, CLE, MIN, KC, BAL, LAA, TEX 3. Prefers large city with respectable Japanese population => eliminates TOR, TB, DET 4. Prefers organization with both stability & upside => eliminates OAK 5. Prefers club without expansive history of Japanese players => eliminates SEA Theoretically that leaves us as the winner if money truly doesn’t matter!

Dan really grew on me over the years. I really enjoyed his work on the CSN Chicago White Sox podcast this year. Nothing against Merkin, but sucks to lose a dedicated beat writer who isn’t a mouthpiece for the organization. Hopefully he finds another job in Chicago. Also, f*** SSS Larry for being a dick to him on Twitter that one time. Dan handled his s*** pretty well all things considered.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 15, 2017 -> 07:08 AM) #1 is that we don't even appear to be trying. We haven't been scouting him at all at his starts. While I agree with this point, I’m not sure it really matters when you’re talking about a player of his reputation and a $300k signing bonus. They’ve certainly seen enough tape of him to confirm that he’s worth $300k. More likely than not though the front office simply doesn’t think he’ll accept such a small bonus when other teams can offer several million more and don’t think it’s worth wasting the time/resources. I think that would be pretty foolish as it’s not like we’re going to have an overly active winter. Defintiely worth the Hail Mary shot IMO.

QUOTE (Soha @ Nov 15, 2017 -> 06:56 AM) I didn't know of those rumors. I've been so dismissive of this in my head that I haven't really followed it much. So I guess that's good news. Obviously take with a grain of salt, but this kid is clearly a different breed. His ambitions go well beyond the money and if he in fact wants to be one of the greatest, going to a rebuilding team where his impact can be best demonstrated makes some sense.

QUOTE (Soha @ Nov 15, 2017 -> 06:15 AM) It would feel like a longshot in every possible way: 1) One of the worst teams in baseball 2) Weren't among the teams originally thought to be interested 3) A team that doesn't have a sexy ballpark, fanbase or history. What exactly is going to draw him here? Sure it's possible...but it feels like a 1 in 1000 chance at best. There are “rumors” he wants to join a rebuilding/non-established team. Look I don’t see it happening, but theoretically if those rumors are true the Sox make a lot of sense. Plus like others have said, we could let him DH most days he’s not pitching, which rules out a bunch of rebuilding clubs. Again, I’m skeptical of all this, but I didn’t think he’d sacrifice millions upon millions to come over as soon as possible and that appears to be the case.

While I’d love to extend Abreu, you got to listen to offers on him & Avi. I’d really need to be blown away to move Abreu. I think he’s that important to having a quick, successful rebuild. But if someone is offering a legit blue chip prospect and another solid piece, you probably have to make that move. I just don’t see that happening and would rather keep him around to anchor the middle of our lineup and serve as both a mentor and a free agent recruiting tool. Avi I would definitely accept less for because of the simple fact I don’t want to commit big dollars for him to keep around. Obviously I wouldn’t just give him away, but if I could get a prospect in the 40 to 70 range plus another interesting piece or two I jump all over that. Beyond the fact I’m skeptical of extending him, part of the reason I’m in favor of an Avi trade is Nicky Delmonico. I’m a huge believer in this kid and think he has a chance to be a very solid LF. He needs to be given a full-time opportunity IMO and if you assume Jimenez will push his way up sooner rather than later then there simply isn’t space for all three. Also, given our minor league OF depth (Robert, Rutherford, Adolfo, etc.), I think it’s smarter to roll the dice on Nicky and see where things stand next offseason before committing big money to an OF.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Nov 12, 2017 -> 06:52 AM) 1) White Sox Opening Day Payrolls. 2017=$95 million. 2016=$98 million. 2015=$115 million. 2014=$91 million. 2013=$119 million. 2012 = $96 million. 2011= $129 million. 2010= $108 million. 2009=$96 million. 2008= $121 million. 2) I keep reading that the 2018 White Sox payroll will be around $75 million. Forbes magazine has said that the White Sox franchise brings in about $250 million dollars. The 2018 White Sox will be one of the most profitable teams in MLB. More moola for JR. You really don’t get how this works do you. Revenue profit and there are expenses other than payroll. And the Sox are unlikely to bring as much revenue in this year as they normally would because the team is rebuilding and likely won’t be very good. And guess what, when you’re rebuilding and not trying to be very good, you typically don’t waste money on unnecessary players to appease short-sighted fans like yourself. Trust the process and understand the payroll will rise back up when this team actually needs to spend.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Nov 11, 2017 -> 11:57 PM) Is he wrong, bro? Don’t call me bro, guy. And yes, I think him stating we’ll never see $150M payroll under as a fact is absurd.

QUOTE (Jimmy3Putt @ Nov 11, 2017 -> 11:48 PM) I just checked it out: $129,000,000 in the year 2010 is equivalent to $144,813,231.46 in 2017. I think a $150,000,000 in 2019 or 2020 isn't out of the question. This. We’ve already come close that number when you adjust for inflation. Add in the fact that there are all sorts of new revenue streams since 2010 plus a new TV deal for the Sox coming up, $150M isn’t really an absurd target. Doesn’t mean it will definitely happen (attendance still matters), but completely ruling it out is ridiculous.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Nov 11, 2017 -> 06:31 PM) The highest payroll the White Sox have had was in 2011 when it was $129 million. The second highest was $121 million in 2008. They have never had a payroll of $150 million and never will as long as JR owns the team. Lol...ok bro.

QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Nov 10, 2017 -> 06:28 PM) I believe Polo and Clarkin will be protected. I just can’t see any reason why Clarkin would be selected. There has to be more promising left-handed pitching prospects that will be available in the Rule 5 draft.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 10, 2017 -> 06:00 PM) Add Jimenez, Guerrero, Peter, Gillaspie and Adolfo. Remove: Hanson, May, Putnam, Infante, Beck and Alburquerque. 6 spots open. Would consider a few others for sure. Adolfo very unlikely to get taken, but I am OK removing any doubt. He needs to keep guys like him in our system. I agree with this. Maybe it’s a 1-2% chance he gets taken, but a rebuilding team shouldn’t take that risk with a talent like Adolfo, especially when we have the roster space. I also think Jimmy is right and Clark will be added.