Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 10:36 AM) Just one of those things where it seems like our brains value a hot start higher than a hot finish. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve been high on Nicky for a while. Was interested in him when we first picked him up given his backstory (talented over-slot pick who dealt with personal issues). Was more interested in him when he destroyed AA (in a park where offense goes to die) & made the KOTAH top 100 list. And finally became a believer last year when he cut his K rate to 17% to coincide with a 11% BB rate. No doubt his power numbers with the Sox were a bit flukey, but I think overall offensive package will play in LF. Just have to see how the glove progresses, I believe he has the physical tools to be above average but that may not overcome challenges he may face with his routes/instincts.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 08:10 AM) Recently I've seen Micker Adolfo's name surface more frequently in Sox coverage and it's always been VERY positive. It makes me wonder why we don't talk about him more and why he's not on more people's projected lineups in our contending years. For those of you who are up on this sort of thing...is there a bigger reason (other than injury history) why he's not mentioned more in our top prospect conversations? Seems like this guy is healthy and a beast in the making. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0220-story.html https://sports.yahoo.com/chris-getz-describ...-194919118.html I’m a big Adolfo fan, but he’s got to show progress with his pitch recognition & strikeouts to take that next step as a prospect. The good news is his plate discipline improved significantly over the second half of 2017 and when he makes contact it seems to be hard based on his power numbers. There have been a ton of articles discussing this, but our dream future OF should really be Jimenez in LF, Robert in CF, & Adolfo in RF. Micker has a cannon of an arm and is much better suited there than Eloy or someone like Rutherford. I really hope Adolfo takes that next step in 2018. As I mentioned there are reason for optimism.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 07:59 AM) You could probably look at the twenty previous 45th or 49th pick and find a bunch of guys who never made it. I’m not necessarily advocating the signing of Moustakas but it sure as hell would have nothing to do with that pick. It’s not just about the pick, but the bonus pool as well. The 2018 draft is supposed to be deep and it doesn’t sound like there will be a ton of seperation between the guys we’ll be considering at #4 (still early obviously). Therefore, there may be a legit under-slot play to made there, which could allow us to allocate bonus pool later on and take advantage of this draft’s depth. We’ll be in a much stronger position to execute such a strategy if we keep the #45 pick and it’s corresponding bonus pool. This is not the year to blow a high draft pick IMO, especially since we can stack penalties next year and lessen the overall impact if we sign multiple tendered guys.

I honest to god think some of you guys want a $65M payroll or something. I really can’t stress enough how much financial flexibility we’ll have in the coming years. Here’s a theoretical 2020 roster assuming only guys that are under control plus with Abreu extended. 1B: Abreu ($21M) 2B: Moncada ($0.5M) SS: Anderson ($4M) 3B: Burger ($0.5M) LF: Delmonico ($0.5M) CF: Robert ($0.5M) RF: Jimenez ($0.5M) DH: Sheets ($0.5M) C: Collins ($0.5M) Sub-total: $28.5M IF: Sanchez ($6M) OF: Cordell ($0.5M) UT: L. Garcia ($4M) BC: Castillo ($8M) Sub-total: $18.5M #1: Kopech ($0.5M) #2: Rodon ($8M) #3: Hansen ($0.5M) #4: Giolito ($0.5M) #5: Dunning ($0.5M) Sub-total: $10M CL: Burdi ($0.5M) SU: Cease ($0.5M) SU: Lopez ($0.5M) MR: Vieira ($0.5M) MR: Bummer ($0.5M) MR: Fulmer ($0.5M) LR: Stephens ($0.5M) Sub-total: $3.5M Grand-total: $60.5M Yes, there are some weak/questionable spots. Yes, not all these guys will work out. But the point is we could add $60M to this roster in the short-run and still have room for growth as players start hitting arbitration. Plus I’m assuming an $18.5M bench to hedge against some of those kids not being quite ready. There are some quick & easy ways to clear even more salary. To me, there is no reason we couldn’t afford to add Machado or Donaldson, a high leverage reliever, and one other impactful piece next offseason. If needed, then trade any excess/blocked talent resulting from these moves to fill the remaining holes on the roster. My point here is let’s use our financial resources on impact talent and not just league average players. If we have more than four or five major holes to fill come 2020 then the rebuild has gone poorly.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 11:21 PM) Kind of agree with Greg that maybe Sox are moving on from their plan to go after Manny. I’d rather add Donaldson next offseason quite frankly.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 07:36 PM) Jarvis Landry franchise tagged. Allen Robinson likely to be tagged too. The wide receiver market is quickly diminishing. Albert Wilson seemed like a gimme, but he is only gonna get more expensive now Really bad news for us. Pace completely ignoring the position last offseason is really going to cost us.

QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 06:10 PM) So the Rays gave up Souza and got back Solak, Banda, and 2 PTBNL? That seems like a great deal for them. That could be a look at what Avi is worth too if he puts up another good first half. Unfortunately Avi will only have 1 1/2 years of control at that point while Souza has three.

QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 04:13 PM) Why do you say that? The argument would be: There's no chance of us signing Machado for $$$$$$$$$$$$$, and Donaldson vs. Mike Mous is iffy due to age + Donaldson would command much more $$$. We have almost zero financial commitments in the short-run. This team is going to spend significantly when the time is right and that will hopefully be next off-season. We should use on our money on potential impact players first and worry about plugging holes second. I can't understate how much financial flexibility we'll have next year. We need to shoot for the stars Albert Belle style and not just settle for B level free agents like we typically do. I just don't see the allure of giving of the 45th pick & $2M in slot value for a guy who is basically a league average player when we're still at least a year out from competing. Even if we miss on Machado & Donaldson and Sanchez is not a viable option, we can always trade for a league average 3B next off-season. Sure, if a star was available on the cheap right now I'd be all for it, but Mike Moustakas is simply not that player IMO.

The rotation is really going to make or break the team this year from a record standpoint. By mid-season we could have a rotation full of young studs or a ton of question marks. While by no means do I think this happens, but if enough of the kids (Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, & Kopech) take positive steps forward this team could see a Twins like improvement in 2018. Obviously we’re more likely to see a mix of good & bad outcomes, but it’s going to be exciting as hell to follow this young staff next year.

QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 07:33 AM) Let that be a lesson to you. Having any doubts about Moncada is tantamount to blasphemy. And he's no longer even the crown jewel. Wait till the first time you post "Jimenez's 0-4, 3 strikeout night was less than ideal" or "I'm no expert but I don't think 8 walks from Kopech is to be desired". Whoa Nelly the reaction to that will dwarf the outrage at just mildly expressing your thoughts about Moncada. It’s not having doubts about Moncada, it’s suggesting there is an attitude problem that doesn’t exist and that Yoan should potentially lose his job with a poor spring. I think the reactions here are fair because those are both pretty hot takes IMO, but obviously there are ways to communicate that without the nastiness some posters used. Balfaman has been around for a while and deserves to be treated with respect.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 19, 2018 -> 07:46 PM) Davidson cut, wishful thinking? Nobody has mentioned Willy Garcia, btw. Vieira? (Avilan) If they think Cordell or Engel or Tilson could be everyday players, they should be playing everyday in Charlotte. The more I think about it the more I think Davidson doesn’t make the roster. There have been some hints that the Sox could still add to the roster and DH is the only obvious spot. Plus the Covey timing makes me think it could be Dickerson assuming the price is low. I’m a big Willy fan, but he’s definitely behind Nicky on the depth chart. I hope they keep him in the system, but I could see him as a 40 man roster casualty to make room for one of the non roster relievers. I don’t think there’s any chance in hell Vieira makes the opening day roster. First, they’ll want to keep as many veterans as possible to give them more flexibility/depth. Second, they’ll wait at least a month even if he looks good in camp to ensure an extra year of service time. Cordell & Tilson are sent to Charlotte to get every-day at-bats. I don’t think they’ll go with a three man bench all year, so I’d expect one of them up at some point.

1. L. Garcia, CF 2. Moncada, 2B 3. Abreu, 1B 4. Dickerson, DH 5. A. Garcia, RF 6. Delmonico, LF 7. Anderson, SS 8. Sanchez, 3B 9. Castillo, C IF: Saladino OF: Engel BC: Narvaez #1: Shields #2: Giolito #3: Lopez #4: Gonzalez #5: Fulmer CL: Soria SU: Jones SU: Minaya MR: Avalin MR: Infante MR: Cedeno MR: Rondon LR: Santiago

We have to see how he progresses defensively this year. If he can become average or better in LF, he could quickly become a viable long-term solution. Otherwise, he’s probably going to have to up his offensive game to stick at 1B or DH.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Feb 19, 2018 -> 08:37 AM) Correct - and I believe Leury, Delmonico, and even Davidson, and others are better use for those 600+plate appearances. He crowds out a corner outfield spot, which would mean both are taken with Avi. So we flip him - what are we going to get? A B prospect. We have a lot of B prospects, who need playing time. And let's not forget we'll probably have to TRADE a B prospect to get him, so the "flip" idea is somewhat tenuous. L Garcia produced 1.1 WAR in 1/2 a season. Delmonico is 1 WAR in 1/4 of a season. IN both cases, the players played a position in which they had little experience and are highly likely to improve defensively (Leury had some experience in the OF; Delmonico had very little). But the bottom line to me is that Dickerson is a bottom 3 hitter on a championship team. i.e. you use him to plug a hole, not as part of a foundation. And he's a bad defender, and the Sox don't need that. Way too early to plug holes with veterans. If we bring on Dickerson it’s to be a DH. I think the main person impacted by such a move would be Davidson and I don’t really care to give him another shot at the job. Delmonico & Leury could still be the primary LF & CF respectively. And Dickerson’s wRC+ of 115 ranked 60th overall of eligible hitters last year. I find it hard to believe he’d a bottom three hitter on any team.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Feb 18, 2018 -> 05:47 PM) The Sox have outfield prospects out the wazzu. With Delmonico, they finally have someone who takes pitches without batting .200. He has a chance to turn into a really good hitter. I'd like to see how he plays out. I just don't get the zeal for Dickerson. High K, low OBP, bad defense, some power. It is the profile that the Sox like. But such players will always be in ample supply, if the Sox insist on one. He’d be a potential flip candidate. The 600+ DH plate appearances are an asset and the Sox have to decide what is the best use of them. I’ve personally seen enough of Matt Davidson to move onto a different option. I won’t be upset if they simply use the spot to rotate a bunch of young guys, but I’m totally ok if they want to roll the dice on the right veteran. IMO, DHing isn’t easy and a lot of players struggle with the routine. Dickerson was pretty awesome as a DH last year (SSS I know) and his power could really play up at the Cell. A strong first half along with his ability to play the OF (even if we don’t use him their regularly) & his cheap ass salary could result in him netting us something of value at the deadline. I can see the logic if the Sox’s scouts are high on him and the price is basically nothing.

Moncada is the single most important player to the rebuild and isn’t going to lose the 2B job over a bad spring. There is nothing wrong with him publicly admitting something we all know.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 18, 2018 -> 02:48 PM) Nightengale is a big White Sox news guy and he even wrote if Machado isn’t a Yankee it will be the upset of all upsets. While I agree they want him, they better have a really good plan B. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/c...kees/347912002/ I don’t disagree, but I don’t see plan B coming before plan A in this case. If Donaldson has another strong season without any major injuries he could be the backup plan despite his age.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 18, 2018 -> 02:23 PM) The only thing is he is kind of repetitive with Delmonico. Plus the Sox have 11 outfielders on their 40. I guess with Leury on the roster being so flexible, it’s possible. I think they think they have a shot at Tillman, or maybe even Moustakas, although that is Boras so unlikely. He is kind of repetitive with Nicky, but honestly don’t see the point of letting Davidson be the everyday DH. He’s an upgrade there and theoretically has some “flipping” upside with another strong first half. DH is the one spot I’m ok with getting a veteran if said player has some potential trade value. I’m not a huge Dickerson fan myself, but I can see the Sox making this type of move. I was actually hoping they would target Tillman at the beginning of the offseason, but I can’t see them adding another starter to guaranteed money with Gonzalez in the fold. And I think the Sox are all in on the Machado front and won’t add anyone that blocks that to a certain extent.

For some reason I really think they’re going to add Dickerson.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 18, 2018 -> 11:31 AM) you think he'll get 3 more mil AAV than Hosmer? 21 vs. 18 Abreu is the better player IMO and the last three years of Homser’s deal are really more of an safety net for him. I mean Carlos Santana just got a $20M AAV, Jose getting an extra $1M two years doesn’t seem very far-fetched.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 18, 2018 -> 08:28 AM) At his age at free agency? Idk about that. At some point the amount of teams tanking is going to self-correct and the prices of free agents will go up. We are already starting to see some last-place teams like the Phillies & Padres make expensive additions. Two years from now I could definitely see Abreu geting something like a 5/$100M deal. Given that would cover his age 33 to 37 seasons, matching that would certainly make me feel uncomfortable.

Why would anyone sign a non-elite 1B to an 8 year deal in this day and age? I get that Hosmer provides some nice intangibles, but that doesn’t rationalize this type of investment. The Padres will eventually regret this IMO. Also, wish we would have extended Abreu when good 1B/DH we’re only getting three to four year deals. If Jose reaches free agency, he’s going to get an offer that makes us uncomfortable.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Feb 17, 2018 -> 02:55 AM) On the latest FanGraphs Audio w/ Kylie McDaniel, he and Carson talked a lot about Carson Fulmer, and a bit about Zack Collins. On Fulmer, they basically said he could become a valuable Cody Allen type bullpen arm, who would be considered a failed pick in his 2015 draft year, but because of the recent trend towards 2 IP power relievers, he would be actually be valued pretty well if he were thrown in to this upcoming draft with this current skillset/projection. So they basically said he went from top pick, to somewhat of a disappointing pick, back to a good pick if he ends up as that Cody Allen/Andrew Miller type 2-inning specialist. They discussed Collins when McDaniel was talking about how the "hit tool" is really a combination of bat control + pitch recognition. So not every 50 hit tool guy is the same because that guy may have 70 pitch recog but only 30 bat control. Or the inverse. They basically said it's very very rare to have a player with BOTH of those things rated highly because typically when you're good at one of them, you don't have to be good at the other to find success. Their extreme example of Vlad Guerrero who had amazing 80 grade bat control, but his pitch recognition sucked, but that's only because it didn't MATTER if he swung at balls, because he would hit them anyway, so he didn't HAVE to master the strikezone. So therefor his hit tool was still very good and he hit for great averages. They said Vlad is EVEN MORE rare because he had the raw power tool to translate contact w/ bad pitches in to power. Most players who had great bat control but bad pitch recognition (Starlin Marte) don't translate that in to a lot of HR because the pitches they make contact with are not even strikes, thus hard to make hard contact on, so they get bloop singles vs. home runs. This related to Collins because his example of the opposite of Starlin Marte was Collins, because he has likely a 70 or 80 grade pitch recognition, but not very good bat control. But this plays better with good power because it means when he swings, he's swinging at mainly strikes, and if all his contact are on strikes, then a higher % of those will be able to be translated to HR via his 60 or 70 raw power. On Fulmer, I’ve already accepted the fact that he’ll be a multi-inning reliever and I’m ok with that. Obviously you’d like to get something more out of such a high draft pick, but I really won’t complain as long as he can fill that type of role for us. The scary part is we all just assume that can & will happen but until they actually move him to relief you really don’t know. I don’t imagine he’s long for our rotation this year, so hopefully we’ll find out soon enough. As for Collins, I’m going to say I’d rather have a player with elite pitch recognition & poor bat control than the opposite this early in their career. There is still plenty of time for Collins to work on his hitch and have at least average bat control. If that can happen, he can still be a very useful offensive player at a minimum. And I’m fairly optimistic he’ll be able to make enough adjustments to get there. I think too many prospect experts panicked on him a bit early and failed to acknowledge that he’s a catcher and oftentimes the offensive development lag behind while they focus on the defensive of the game.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Feb 16, 2018 -> 09:33 PM) I really like Tilson as well. I think his hit tool is much better then Engel and his defense will probably not be all that different question for him is how much power does he have in that swing. Wow hold on here, are you suggesting Tilson’s defense is comparable to Engel’s? Cause Adam is a f***ing stud out there and Tilson from what I’ve read (since he’s never really played for us) is average at best in CF. Tilson has a much better hit tool, but he’s probably a huge downgrade defensively and has far less raw power & speed. I don’t know, it’s really hard for me to buy into the Tilson hype. I don’t see much more than second division starter potential and I think it’s far more likely he ends up being a 4th or 5th OF.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 16, 2018 -> 07:58 PM) Sox need TA to turn into a clubhouse leader and 2-4 WAR guy. I'm certainly rooting for him. He showed a little bit at the end of last year once he was able to put the adversity behind him. The thing about TA that intrigues me is his defensive tools are absolutely elite. I've rarely seen a Sox SS with such range -- Ramirez included. His arm is average but he has a lighting quick release and as noted his range is as good as I've seen here. He's gotta cleanup the "lazy" (more of a repetition issue imo but it comes across as lazy) routine errors he makes rounding off balls and throwing on the run. Hopefully with more experience he learns to just slow down, field the ball under the brim of his cap, square, and fire. None of this "ole" s***. I think he’s a pretty safe bet to be a 2 WAR player next year. I believe in him being an above average defender and his mix of speed & power offer should make him a just slightly below league average hitter. It’s the complete lack of walks that’s holding him back at the moment. If he could even get to a 5% BB rate he could be an above average starting SS. I’m not overly optimistic about that, but he’s still young so you never know.