Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:47 AM) There is a legitimate argument to be made that this rebuild is going so well that certain players in the minors are too good to leave down there. Yet Greg thinks this rebuild is a bad idea. If you're not a prospect guy, you're NOT a baseball fan. Sorry, but a lot of prospects become MLB players and the White Sox have successfully stockpiled so many that it's hard to fathom none of them panning out. The White Sox have the best minor league system in baseball based on raw AND top end talent. This rebuild is going swimmingly. It's almost go so good, the White Sox will only have one shot at a really high draft pick as guys like Moncada, Lopez, and Kopech can't be held down for much longer. 2018 is going to be ugly, so I'd assume two years of high draft picks. Kopech probably doesn't reach the majors until late 2018 and even then he'll be pushing his innings limit. The three key young guys in the rotation will be Rodon, Lopez, & probably Giolito. This will be the first full season for the latter two guys, so I wouldn't expect anything crazy out of them. The rest of the rotation will likely be filled with fringe prospects or free agent filler. The bullpen could also be really ugly. As for the lineup, yes you'll add Moncada but that's your only potential impact player (and again a rookie). And while we'll likely still have Abreu & maybe Avi, otherwise we'll be relying on Anderson, Davidson, Luery, Engel, Willy, Delmonico, & Narvarez/Smith to play critical roles. While some of those guys are performing well or have some upside, all of them also come with huge question marks. And the rest of our positional talent probably won't hit until 2019 or 2020. So yeah, I'd fully expect an ugly 2018 and two years of high draft picks to support the rebuild.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:46 AM) If he cannot get a top 100 prospect (or maybe 2 in the 120 range that your team likes or something like that), that's a good "hold him" level. Same numbers for another full season and we're talking top 50, slight decline from these levels and we're still at top 100. I agree with this. I also think with the number of quality relievers available, it might make more sense to focus on dealing Robertson & Swarzak now and to save Kahnle for the offseason. But hey, if value can be found for all three guys, then by all means trade them.

I really hope he has at most one more start at Charlotte. Dude is ready for the pros and I think keeping him at AAA much longer would be counter-productive for his development.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 08:00 AM) 1) I read in todays Sun Times that the team is not expecting much in return for Frazier and Robertson after they're traded. You have to see how this plays out but I don't doubt that we will receive next to nothing for them. This only confirms to me that this isn't a rebuild. Its simply a salary dump by JR. I figure by Opening Day 2019 the team will have a payroll of somewhere around $30 million. Considering that the team grosses over $260 million every year, JR is looking at making more serious money. This team will be so bad by then I wouldn't be surprised to see the team have a Turn Back The Clock day with the players dressed in the uniforms of the St. Louis Browns.Hopefully sometime around 2019 this team will have new ownership in place to turn around this train wreck of a franchise. 2) I've always been a fan of Hawk Harrelson as a announcer. I wish this was his last season. It's time for him to go. One of his constant remarks the last 2 seasons is that JR is not going to let the Cubs take over the city. After this Quintana trade I wonder if he's going to use that same comment. Good god man. So much wrong with this post.

QUOTE (Username @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 09:58 PM) Was crunching the numbers today and Avi and JD Martinez have had identical per-game WAR numbers this year (both on pace for 5.2 over a full 162 game season). Hard to believe with how well JD is mashing. Shows you how insane Avi's defensive progress has been and how important that is to his value. Also makes me wonder if teams like the Diamondbacks/Rockies that are pursuing JD will look heavily at Avi. Those are young teams and he actually fits the window way better. I posted something similar in a different thread, but I would be marketing Avi to all the clubs with interest in JD.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 05:59 PM) They don't play in the same league, they don't share the same fans. They play six times a year, and VERY rarely are both teams good during the same season. The Cubs seasons have no bearing on the White Sox (not withstanding this latest trade ) When the Sox are actually competitive, I give the Cubs very little thought aside from the six times the Sox play them. I can't say that about the Twins, Indians, Tigers, etc. To say they don't share the same fans is simply not true. They're no doubt competing for young, impressionable fans who have yet to pick a team to call their own. These people represent the next generation of their core fanbase. They're also competing for the casual crowd, including tourists and transplants, on a more short-term basis. None of this changes the fact I'd still make the trade, but the fact it's the Cubs was no doubt a consideration, no matter how small.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 05:59 PM) They don't play in the same league, they don't share the same fans. They play six times a year, and VERY rarely are both teams good during the same season. The Cubs seasons have no bearing on the White Sox (not withstanding this latest trade ) When the Sox are actually competitive, I give the Cubs very little thought aside from the six times the Sox play them. I can't say that about the Twins, Indians, Tigers, etc. To say they don't share the same fans is simply not true. They're no doubt competing for young, impressionable fans who have yet to pick a team to call their own. These people represent the next generation of their core fanbase. They're also competing for the casual crowd, including tourists and transplants, on a more short-term basis. None of this changes the fact I'd still make the trade, but the fact it's the Cubs was no doubt a consideration, no matter how small.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 05:06 PM) You can choose to believe him if you want (and I see no reason not to) but Hahn said point blank "it was by far the best offer". I'm guessing that means that probably nobody else was offering two top 100 guys, and that nobody else was including a top #5ish stud like Eloy if they were. I'm sure multiple teams offered two top 100 guys. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a team even offered three of them. But let's not compare a top 5 to 10 guy like Jimenez to any old top 100 prospect. Those few elite prospects are worth an absolute ton because they provide a very rare mix of ceiling & floor. And honestly, Jimenez is probably the only blue chipper we were offered for Quintana. I think Albies is a fantastic prospect, but he's a tier below Eloy. So the question we all have to ask ourselves is would you have one elite guy plus one guy in the 75 to 100 range or something like two guys in the 30 to 50 range or possibly three guys in the 50 to 100 range. To me the answer is simple: the package headlined by the blue chipper is always the way to go.

QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 03:30 PM) Also re: trading Kahnle now or in the future. We'd have Arrieta if Crain could have been dealt sooner and Nate Jones was possibly going to being back a Ken Giles return. Then there's Putnam. It's definitely a fair point, but this market could overflowing with relievers in a few weeks. I'd probably take $0.75 on the dollar for Kahnle right now, but I'm worried with the amount of other options available and his lack of history we won't get an offer like that this deadline. With a strong two months of closing however, you might be able to get full value in the offseason.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 03:28 PM) Speaking of Phil Rogers, I watched a panel the other day after the Q trade and the question was who was the next to go from the White Sox, everyone was saying either Robertson or Frazier, but Phil said Avi. I don't know if that means Avi will retire a White Sox or Phil knows something. I always enjoyed Phil's Sunday Tribune columns as a child, but as I aged I slowly realized everything he wrote was speculation and oftentimes uninformed. But hey, you never know. Would be hilarious to see Avi moved first.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 03:28 PM) Yanks as well possibly. See, that's what I mean. 3B is a smaller need for the Yankees than SP, RP, & 1B, but if the price is relatively light then getting a guy like Frazier may make a ton sense. He could fill in at both 3B & 1B and prevents the Red Sox from getting a sizable upgrade on the cheap. Makes complete sense for our front office to leak that price for Frazier won't be cost prohibitive.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 03:27 PM) Sounds like opposing GMs are complaining about Tigers' asking prices. If I were Hahn, I'd be marketing Avi Garcia to all the teams talking to Avila about J.D. Martinez. Despite being a rental, I've got to assume their price is ridiculous and Avi could look very attractive with his two additional years of control.

QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 03:22 PM) Think Nightengale was pure speculation or fed some KW info? I think it was definitely more speculation, almost came off very Phil Rogers-ish. I think some of his other tweets were KW leaks though. The "should only cost a fringe prospect" tweet screamed out to me as a leak by the Sox to try to get more bidders into the mix even if 3B isn't a huge need. Right now it feels like Boston is the only real suitor, unless want to try him as a 1B (and there are plenty of those guys out there).

Did Euron kidnap Sam at the end of the books? I know at the very least he was about to attack Oldtown. Seems like Sam's path has to to cross with another important character's and I'm not sure Jorah alone counts. Feels like Euron may be that guy.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 02:51 PM) Jon Heyman‏Verified account @JonHeyman 30m30 minutes ago More have heard redsox very much like old friend jed lowrie, too, as written before. so he's a possibility for them to play 3B as well. Given Lowrie has an option year, I would imagine they'd actually want something of decent value for him.

Excited to see how Cease performs tonight.

What's funny is how many Red Sox fans would rather not acquire Frazier and stick with what they got. IMO, he's a huge upgrade at 3B for them and shouldn't cost anything of significance. And there's a non-zero chance he gets hot and can be an impact player come October. I think we've gotten to the point where most fanbases greatly overvalue their prospects. Short of the very elite, you can't be afraid to move prospects when you have a near championship caliber roster. DD gets this and that's why I'm confident he ends up with Frazier.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 01:46 PM) The only thing you have to watch out for is if you get to the point where they are all at the same point in their development curve and you don't have enough affiliates to get them reps/PAs. I don't know where exactly these guys are, but I am sure it's something we would be cognizant of. Lol...wish I had would have saw this before I made my post, because I completely agree.

Our system still lacks positional depth, so when trading our secondary assets, getting the best return is all that really matters. The only real exception is when adding a player directly impacts another quality prospect's playing time and/or development. I'd avoid adding another A ball OF at this point (if possible), because we're absolutely loaded at those levels with interesting prospects and such a move would force someone to the bench. Having said that, I'd sure as hell take one at AA or above. At the end of the day, we need waves and waves of talent to offset the natural attrition of prospects.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 12:14 PM) Nightengale predicted Kahnle/Frazier for Groome/Chavis

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 11:14 AM) Spoiler thread, enter at your own risk Awesome, so does anyone else think Euron is going to get the Dragon's Horn? I don't see how else Cersai & company would stand a chance against Dany & her dragons.

Can we talk openly in this thread without spoiler tags? Because I thought it was very interesting that Euron mentioned he was going to get something to prove his loyalty to Cersei. And there is a certain item from the books that might be useful when giant dragons are about to invade your kingdom.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:16 AM) I'm torn. We could be served well if we become the option for the "me too" teams, reacting to the upgrades being added to the teams they are competing with for playoffs. But I've liked what we've gotten by moving first, and you never know how many teams could just decide to bow out. I'm pretty concerned the market will be flooded with relievers by the 31st. There should also be a ton of teams with bullpen needs, but I'm not expecting the best seller's market. I really think it would be to our benefit to move fast while prices are still ridiculously high.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:06 AM) It has been hard for Epstein and cub fans to wipe the smirks off their faces since Quintana's start. Helping the cubs to another Word Series was not what most White Sox fans wanted Hahn to do with Quintana. He had other choices. You keep saying this, but have zero evidence to suggest it's true. Seems like you're more concerned with the Cubs sucking than the Sox being good.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:04 AM) It's actually fun to have someone to root for on the Cubs. Why is it fun?