Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 03:42 PM) The bad guys spent some serious money on their rebuild when they signed Lester, Heyward and Zobrist. That is not going to happen with the White Sox. For the love of god can we ban this clown?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 03:17 PM) The same logic applies the other way though; if you only have him for 2 years, that leaves you a 2 year window to win your title, and there are going to be other teams that are a force during those years like the White Sox. That logic will hit even the Yankees. I’m convinced you’re trying to jinx us with this unfiltered confidence.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 02:54 PM) It is possible, but you do get him for what should be 2 of his most productive years, and as we all know, these really long contracts normally look horrible at the end, so if he leaves you avoid that. For teams that are WS ready, it is a perk you might hand out. But given the small chance he pulls a Heyward I think teams are going to want three years minimum in exchange for guaranteeing him 10 at a near record rate. I just don’t see it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 02:46 PM) I will say that in a 10 year deal I would not do a 2 year opt out for Machado. That would probably be my 1 red line. I need that 3rd year. I don’t think any team gives him an opt-out after two years. Need to get at least three guaranteed years to take on that much downside risk.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 02:28 PM) Very relevant. Does he fit the rebuild if he opts out after 2 years? You are literally grasping at straws here. Machado won’t get an opt-out after two years if he signs a 10 year deal like expected. Maybe after three years, hopefully after four. Regardless, Manny Machado getting an opt-out three or four into our competive window is fine if that’s what it takes to land him. Giving Mike Moustakas an opt-out is beyond idiotic. I can’t believe you’re still arguing for this.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 02:12 PM) Machado certainly will have an opt out or 2 in his deal. How is that relevant?

I stole this idea from JustBelieveIt, but why not pick up Logan Morrison to DH for us? Dude is only 30 years old & would provide us with a cheap left-handed power bat for the middle of our lineup. His last season and half has been incredibly productive as shown by the stats below: PA: 730 BB %: 12.5% K %: 24.5% ISO: .267 HR: 44 Slash: .246/.348/.513/.861 wRC+: 129 MLBtraderumors also had a nice piece on him not too long go that provides additional reasons for optimism: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/some...n-morrison.html I don’t know, seems like if he could repeat the level of production I noted above he might actually net us something of value at the deadline. Plus he’s young enough to theoretically be a cheap placeholder until someone like Sheets is ready. I really think it’s a move worth considering.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 10:55 AM) Where did anyone get the idea that 2019 was part of the window? The only way this team is even competing for a WC spot in 2019 is with a mega signing like Machado, which is why signing Moustakas now makes no sense. The Twins went from 59 wins to a wild card berth in one season. There is most definitely a scenario where the Sox can make a significant leap forward without a mega signing. Obviously a lot of things will have to go right on the development, but most of the key players will be in place. No doubt a mega signing makes that far more likely.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 10:29 AM) You would get a pick back if he opted out. How? You can only get a qualifying offer once?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 10:06 AM) As I wrote, and opt out after year 1 would make no sense.Weren’t you all over paying Matt Kemp $43 million just as long as they sent over a decent prospect? You value these guys way too much. The second round prospect isn’t a deal breaker. If Moustakas opted out in 2019, and it was a contending year, chances are he help you win some games. That’s far more than you can say about the $43 million you had no problem the White Sox paying Kemp. Effectively paying Moose $24M to “win some games” in 2019, losing a high draft pick & corresponding $2M in bonus pool, and then having a hole at 3B again heading into the 2020 seasonon is just dumb, dumb, dumb. Surely you can’t be serious with this proposal. I honestly feel like you’re trolling me right now. You’re usually one of the more logical posters around here, but this idea is just pure insanity. As for Kemp, sure I’d take his contract for a high-end prospect. We just spent $50M on Robert. If I can get Verdugo for eating the remaining $43M I’d certainly do that. The Dodgers won’t so the point is moot anyways.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 09:34 AM) But if there is an opt out after year 2 and he opts out, it means he must have played pretty well and opens up 3B for the other two potential signees, or then they pay him the going rate. If they White Sox will have all this flexibility you have claimed, it’s a non issue. I would admit an opt out after year 1would make zero sense to the team, An opt-out at all would be absolutely stupid. Why are we spending $12M on a lost season AND giving up a high 2nd round pick to have an average-ish player for only one season in which we’re trying to compete? I’d demand Hahn be fired on the spot if he made such a dumb move. Whether we could add Arenado or Rendon after the fact is completely irrelevant to the decision to give Moose a deal with an opt-out clause. The only benefit to any potential Moose deal is cheap long-term control, the moment you give that up all logic for the Sox goes out the window.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 09:27 AM) I don’t think you have anything to worry about. You more than likely won’t have to hatefully watch Mike Moustakas is a White Sox uniform. I find this comment to be insulting. Just because I don’t agree with a potential move, doesn’t mean I’d hate the actual player if they were added to the team. Moose isn’t a bad player or some sort of scumbag. I’d have absolutely no will towards him. I simply don’t align with the strategy behind adding him. There’s nothing personal about this.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 09:19 AM) 4/$48 million I don’t see Boras ever agreeing to that deal without opt-outs. And the moment an opt-out is included, the deal makes zero sense for the Sox.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 09:03 AM) Yolmer took a huge leap and was still below average offensively. To expect another one isn’t realistic. Most projections think he will go the other way.He has a nice glove and is perfect as a back up.p on a contending team. No team has ever had too many good players. Let alone the White Sox. If the opportunity to get one for a discounted price comes along, it is probably a good idea to take it. I doubt the price will come down far enough for Moustakas considering his agent and his agents ability to pull things out the last second, but there is probably a small chance, it would probably mean Tyler Saladin would need to hire a mover. Give me an example of a discounted price?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 08:42 AM) So don’t look at the numbers , ignore all you have said about how much money the White Sox have, ignore he would be a top 3 or 4 DH. Just say he was bad. OK. Why don’t we move on to the other thing that is ignored. If you sign someone else, why couldn’t you trade him? Ignore the numbers? I’m aware of the numbers. Being the the 3rd or 4th best DH right now doesn’t mean you’re a big contributor. I just said I don’t agree with how the position is being utilized, but clearly ignore that. And I don’t want to pay $12M to $16M on a 1 WAR DH. Us having a lot of money to play with doesn’t mean we have endless amounts of money and it definitely doesn’t mean we shouldn’t allocate it as efficiently as possible. And how often are guys traded a year after signing a multi-year deal? How do you think our players would feel about that? How would future potential free agents feel about that? Things don’t happen in a vacuum and that sends a bad message IMO. And who exactly is trading for him when they could just sign him right now to this disoc***ed deal?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 08:24 AM) Why would he be a bad DH? Before you answer, you might want to check DH stats. I don’t care how teams are utilizing the position, he’d be a poor, over-paid contributor at DH. And I’ve said multiple times I value the DH spot and don’t really buy into the rotating DH concept. I like a dedicated guy that is a proven plus hitter, which is why I was pushing for a JD Martinez signing all offseason. That would not be Moose.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 08:13 AM) Might want to read this if you think Machado solves 3B. He plans to remain a SS. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/c...kees/347912002/ Come on Dick, that’s an obvious marketing piece. He played 3B last year while Tim f***ing Beckham played SS. If needed to play SS why didn’t he force this move last year? I think he’ll be open to 3B or SS as long as he gets paid.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 07:57 AM) Anyone would take those 4 over Moustakas. But, if your financial scenario is anywhere near correct, signing Moustakas doesn’t preclude going after any of them. You can always upgrade later and fit them in on the roster whether it is trading Moustakas, making him a DH, moving him to 1b because Abreu is no longer there.... It’s not about the money, it’s the fact that Moustakas would be a bad 1B or DH. I just don’t see the allure of Moose unless you’re keeping him at 3B. And I don’t believe in buying average-ish players at this point in the rebuild, not when there are going to be four impact players hitting free agency when it makes more sense for us to spend.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 07:57 AM) But why don’t you ever mention Bryce Harper?who knows, Avi might return to the former Avi, the more people talk, the more Eloy is a LF. I would go after Bryce Harper too, but 3B is a much bigger hole for the organization than the OF. And Harper is going to get an even more ridiculous contract than Machado.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 07:13 AM) If signing Machado is necessary for the rebuild to not be a fraud, there is a pretty good chance the rebuild will be a fraud.the rebuild is not a fraud. Being realistic has to come into this. So many people think Machado to the White Sox is going to happen. Why not Bryce Harper? The Sox could use him too? He is dismissed because people know there is no way. There might be a way with Machado, but the chances are very slim. But it doesn’t have to be Machado. Donaldson, Arenado, & Rendon will also be options. The idea we can’t land any of those players is ridiculous. Who are all these teams that are going to outbid us? Once the Yankees land Machado in your scenario they’re out of the equation for the other guys. Maybe the Dodgers eat the last year of Turner’s deal and go after Arenado or Rendon? I honestly think if those two teams are out, we’re in a tremendous spot to land one of the remaining guys. And I’m not completely ruling out the idea we can compete with those teams for Machado or whoever their favorite is, but I’d literally take any of those four guys over Moose. I know the idea of Donaldson gets a lot of hate around here because he’s in his 30s, but the dude is an absolute stud and would be a great addition at the right price. Sure there would be risk, but playing it safe with a Moustakas signing is not how we’re going to compete with the Astros & Yankees.

I’m not trying to make things personal, but you said “They need a respectable left handed bat, more than they need a top 5 player.” That’s what sent me into a frenzy. If you think it’s not wise to commit $30M+ a year that’s a different argument altogether (although I still wouldn’t agree), but your initial statements never really suggested that. It really came off like you were arguing fit over production. I know others feel the same way based on posts in this thread.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 07:46 PM) I think if there was a player we should have signed due to market conditions, it was Yuuuuuuu I don’t think he would have signed with us though. I think he wanted to go to a contender.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 05:13 PM) “Micker Adolfo reported with some soreness in his arm after some drills the other day,” Hahn said. “We had it examined and unfortunately it revealed a sprain in his ulnar collateral ligament and a strain in his flexor tendon. While that is never good news, the positive side of it is that the tear is on the proximal side, which our doctors have explained to me means rehabilitation has a higher likelihood of working than the normal circumstances where a guy has a UCL tear or tendon tear.” https://theathletic.com/251598/2018/02/23/m...bering-setback/ I guess that’s good news right?

QUOTE (Jake @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 02:29 PM) Sounds like Tommy John surgery is likely, but if it doesn't look terrible on the MRI they might try to rehab it before putting him on the operating table. Good god that f***ing sucks. Just horrible timing given the progress he made last year.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 12:19 PM) You mean someone like this? Yes, I agree. Yeah, I’d rather go with a guy like Morrison. More upside and a non-zero chance he can be a cheap, interim solution at DH while we wait for Sheets/Burger or see what we have in Nicky.