Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 05:14 PM) Yes if they do literally nothing to improve this team in the off-season they will be bad again. But do you know Rick Hahn to do nothing in the off-season? Do you really think the Sox will just sit on the sidelines? I don't know, and neither do you. When you look at whether they should choose to at least put an MLB quality team on the field the answer to me is clear. They can make this team decent without spending $200m on free agents or trading any of their prospects. It really wouldn't be too difficult. They built a pretty good pen out of a pair of cheap trades and some minor league free agents, why can't they do that again? Don't tell that they won't be any good, tell me why they shouldn't. How does it hurt to win a few games in 2018? You literally just said they should be aggressive and call up an A ball prospect to help them win next year. That you should signal just how desperate you are to turn a turd into a diamond. And signing a bunch of guys who won't be around when the team is good again (or worse will be albatrosses on our payroll), all to get some meaningless wins, is nearly as bad or an idea as rushing our best prospects before they are ready. Another high pick and the large bonus pool that comes attached with it are vitally important to our rebuild. No matter how well this rebuild goes, we'll always have some holes to fill and it's important to have some prospect currency in the pipeline. If want sustained success, we need a quality major league team and a strong farm system. See the Cubs, Astros, Nationals, etc if you need examples.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 04:57 PM) That is a choice they can make this offseason. There is more than enough available in free agency (at reasonable prices) and on the farm, assuming they are aggressive calling up Jimenez and Kopech, to field a team that can be competitive on a game-by-game basis. Probably not playoffs, but forward momentum towards 2019 (a season they absolutely must not spend wallowing in the basement). Holy f*** you are nuts. Why do we want to be aggressive with Kopech and Jimenez? They are two of the most important pieces in our rebuild and you want to rush them before they are ready because you can't deal with another losing season. And spending money on any significant free agent this offseason would be stupid. You buy talent in free agency when you know where your holes are and once you ready to compete. You don't pay market value to guys that will be part of a losing team and then suddenly hit their down years right when you're window is opening. This is going to be a multi year process. No one has ever or will ever be able to compete a rebuild in one season. Again, the vast majority of our talent is coming in 2019 & 2020. Maybe Kopech and one of the AA starters is ready in the second half of next year, but that's pretty much it. The lineup is going to be ugly next year. The bullpen is going to be ugly. We're going to have James Shields as part of our rotation. Giolito & Lopez will essentially be rookies and one of them is currently sporting a 5+ ERA in AAA. I honestly have no idea how you think the 2018 team can be competitive unless all their young players put up star performances and they go all out and overpay for B tier free agents (which will cost us down the road). Anything is possible, but the odds of us competing next year are as good Big Game James Shields winning the Cy Young in 2018.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 03:33 PM) Those players will essentially be rookies and there will be a learning curve. The rest of the roster will be filled with question marks outside of a handful of good players. Unless Moncada, Lopez, & Giolito are stars from the get go, this team will not sniff .500 next year. And that's simply not a realistic expectation. Hope they prove me wrong though, but if they don't, it does not mean the rebuild is doomed.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 03:20 PM) When people say they will be worse next year I wonder if they understand what that means for the players everyone is counting on for the future. For them to actually get worse would require that Moncada, Gioltio and Lopez (not to mention midseason arrivals like Kopech and Jimenez and the tier below guys like Polo, Cordell, Delmonico etc) are basically all 0.0 WAR players. That's not good. That puts the rebuild in serious peril if nobody they call up is worth anything. Those players will essentially be rookies and there will be a learning curve. The rest of the roster will be filled with question marks outside of a handful of good players. Unless Moncada, Lopez, & Giolito are stars from the get go, this team will not sniff .500 next year. And that's simply not a realistic expectation. Hope they prove me wrong though, but if they don't, it does not mean the rebuild is doomed.

I just don't see Gillaspie making the opening day roster. He'd have to absolutely kill it in spring training and at this point I don't understand why that should be expected. I think they'll use Abreu as the primary 1B next year and use the DH spot to get bunch of guys playing time. Given that Gillaspie offers no positional versatility, it's pretty much start or best for him IMO. I fully expect him to have to prove himself in AAA for a few months to get an everyday opportunity with the Sox.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) There is absolutely no reason to give up on 2018. If they do I lose a lot of faith in the future. But knowing what I know about Hahn, Kenny and Jerry I think they feel the way I do. The farm is loaded, they have talented players set to be arriving at a consistent pace and tons of money to spend. They can seize a weak division in 2018 if they get a couple breaks, but the goal should be .500 baseball. I don't know how you can look at our roster and see a team that could "seize a weak division" next year. Next year will likely be just as ugly as this year and that will be good for rebuild. The first wave of talent will get a chance to work through their growing pains, multiple fringy prospects will get everyday opportunities and perhaps we find a diamond or two in the rough, and we'll end up with another high draft & huge bonus pool to infuse even more talent into the system. And please don't say we have enough talent, you can NEVER have enough talent the first year of a rebuild. Doing some halfass "going for it" strategy next year would be disastrous and could have a negative long-term impact on the rebuild. I hate losing as much as anyone here, but you seem unable to accept what next year needs to be and that's ugly.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) I have a feeling they are looking at making a free agent splash this offseason. KC is not going to let Hosmer walk, but that could open Moustakas up to be swiped. 4 years/$80m seems reasonable for both sides, if not a little bit of a bargain for the Sox. Free agency isn't what it used to be, though. dh Davidson/Delmonico/Gillaspie (or Abreu and one of these guys plays the field) c Narvaez/Smith (perhaps a FA) 1b Abreu 2b Moncada ss Anderson 3b Moustakas lf Delmonico/Cordell/Polo cf Engel/Leury (possible FA) rf Avi Gotta like that infield, especially if Anderson figures it out. Sox don't have much at 3b really, if Burger mashes his way to the majors the DH spot can be used to get him AB's. You are going to be in for a world of dissapointment next year.

1. L. Garcia, CF 2. Moncada, 2B 3. Abreu, 1B 4. A. Garcia, RF 5. Davidson, 3B 6. Delmonico, DH 7. Anderson, SS 8. W. Garcia, LF 9. Narvarez, C IF: Sanchez OF: Engel UT: Cordell BC: Veteran FA

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 06:24 PM) Rosemont is in the dead center of Cubs country. You notice Rosemont didn't make the same offer to the White Sox? I'm not sure I'd call it the dead center, but it would definitely cater better to the Cubs' fanbase than ours.

Now that I'm a grown ass man and live in the west suburbs, I wish Reinsdorf would have pulled off the move to Addison. I can't even imagine living 10 minutes away from the Sox's stadium, would be so f***ing awesome.

Why no Willy?

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 04:03 PM) Plenty of time for a clear #1 to emerge, but there is always risk with #1 overall Always risk with #1 overall?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 10:17 PM) Moncada k'ing 30-40% of the time. Jimenez and Rutherford aren't out of this world hitters at corner outfield spots, making them 1.5-2.25 fWAR guys. Kopech never finds his control or gets hurt. Cease and Giolito already with one TJS. Most of the hurlers have concerns about durability, or pitchability, as starters. Robert doesn't live up to his hype. See article above... Good god, your posts are unbearable when you get into your negative Nancy moods.

Willy!!

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 07:09 PM) Because the nice part about using a Hall of Famer and a pair of really valuable assets to kickstart your rebuild is you can acquire 3 years worth of prospects in 8 months. The Sox don't need to suck for a half decade to build a talent pipeline, they already have it. Out of the eight high-end guys we received for the three players you mentioned, only four of them will realistically be up in 2018 and those guys will likely experience growing pains. The rest of the roster is going to be plagued with question marks. I honestly have no idea how you think this team could be competitive next year.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 06:56 PM) It would be really stupid to have a player of Moncada's potential just wasting away in pre-arb for a team trying to lose. Finish this season as poorly as possible, I can get behind that, but winning at the major league level becomes a priority again the day this travesty of a season ends. I'm not saying trade everyone for ML players, or even that they should trade any of their prospects at all, but they should make an effort. Gillaspie, Delmonico, Cordell, Polo, Clarkin, Guerrero all have opportunities to make an impact as soon as Opening Day, and they have so much payroll flexibility that they can be active in free agency without hamstringing their future. If they really decide to tank 2018 too my opinion of this rebuild will crater. What? Why would tanking in 2018 cause the rebuild to crater?

By the end of 2018, some combination of Rodon, Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Adams, Guerrero, & Stephens will be in the rotation or will be pushing for spots. By 2019 Burdi should be back and in the pen and hopefully Fulmer as well. Therefore, the 2019 pitching staff has a chance to be pretty good. No guarantees obviously, but plenty of talent will be there by then. The position side is a much bigger question mark, but there's a chance that guys like Jimenez & Burger move fast and are up by early 2019. Abreu could still be around plus you should have better versions of Anderson & Moncada. And who knows, there could be some surprises with the fringier guys in AAA right now and potentially a free agent signing or two. I think .500 is a somewhat realistic goal for 2019.

Right now, my plan would be to call up Jimenez in early May of 2019 assuming all goes well. Give him a month in AA this year, split next year between AA & AAA, and then let him start 2019 in AAA again. This would allow us to control him through 2025.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 01:13 AM) this is how I view the future outfield shaping up Tier 0 Throw them against the wall Cordell/Engel/L. Garcia# | Tilson, Liriano & W. Garcia fall into this bucket as well Tier 1 Top 100 Jimenez/Robert/Rutherford* Tier 2 Upside Polo/Basabe#/Adolfo Tier 3 Moderate floor Fisher*/Gonzalez/Call Hopefully Avisail can continue his best Jose Guillen impersonation and get moved in the next 12 months. Tito Polo in the same tier as Basabe & Adolfo? He's got nowhere near the same upside and is a lessser prospect than Cordell, who you put in tier 0.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 09:53 PM) Cordell is better than anyone Phillies got for Neshek The Baseball America write-up was pretty positive on Cordell and mentioned that some scounts think he has a chance of being an everyday guy.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 10:04 PM) This kid will be just fine. Kid is going to be an absolute stud. Might take a year or two before everything clicks, but Moncada is going to be something real special.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 08:47 PM) Luis Basabe in July: .279 / .347 / .456 / .801 and a 17% k rate Yeah, he's been improving. He'll need to start next season in Winston-Salem again, but he'll probably still be young for his league. Way to early to give up on him IMO.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 08:46 PM) Great to see Kopech finishing the year strong. Give him two more starts to hit 110 innings and let him rest his arm for the rest of the year. I really thought he'd hit a wall, but he's actually elevated his performance these last two starts.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 07:46 PM) Cause I watched a ton of his at bats this year and he struck out an insane amount looking at the third strike that was a borderline call Oh ok, didn't know if this was secondhand info. Actually glad to hear that, as that can be addressed with a slight change in approach.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 07:43 PM) He really needs to learn how to protect. Something he was quite bad at Charlotte with How do you know this?