Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 9, 2016 -> 11:03 AM) I'd say the guys I previously suggest fill those needs: Moreland and Fowler. For probably a slightly higher cost, Alvarez and Desmond would work as well. Mitch has a wRC+ of 100 this year and a career average of 101. He is not an impact offensive talent.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 9, 2016 -> 09:23 AM) Actually I did read the article, did you? As stated in the article: Position players can be acquired more easily through free agency or trades involving lesser players, he said, so “you’ve got to get huge-upside, young, controllable pitching if you trade a once-in-20-years pitcher like Sale.’’ That's the opinion of a former executive, not from anyone within the White Sox organization. But thanks for proving my point with some much needed snark!

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 9, 2016 -> 07:18 AM) So let me get this straight. They would consider a Sale trade largely built around a high profile pitching prospect (i.e. Glasnow, Giolito) in hopes that guy can eventually turn into Chris Sale-lite? Better be getting a high profile MLB ready catcher or CF in return as well otherwise that does nothing to improve the team over the next 5 years. I'm not trading Sale for one big time SP prospect and a bunch of B level prospect position players and relievers. That's terrible. How did you jump to this conclusion? Nothing in that article suggests the White Sox would accept a deal built around one high-profile pitching prospect for Sale. Did you even read the article?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 9, 2016 -> 06:50 AM) http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/sale-it...consider-trade/ Sox might be targeting young starting pitchers and relievers for Sale... That's just some former executive's opinion on what they should do. If the Sox were to deal Sale, they'd still have Quintana (if not traded as well) & Rodon in the rotation for the next 4 & 5 years respectively. They'd also have a collection of former 1st & 2nd round picks in Fulmer, Burdi, Adams, & Hansen in high A and above. I'd want at least one high-end pitching prospect in any deal, but the focus should be on position players, which is what makes the Red Sox so attractive.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 11:33 PM) Price (and Kershaw) both have a LOT to prove this postseason....so I guess we have to root for a complete implosion of the Red Sox starting staff in the AL Divisional Series. That's what I'll be rooting for. If their pitching comes up short, they could get aggressive on Sale.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 09:45 PM) So you would take a package of Moncada and Benintendi + for Sale. Neither player has even played a game in AAA. Benintendi played very well for a month then twisted his knee and will probably not return this year. Moncada has struggled his first week defensively but he is only learning 3rd base. He sat out yesterday after striking out 8 straight times in his first week. Sorry, I am not trading a Top 5 pitcher for two outstanding prospects who may or may not be able to play in the majors next year. Betts is probably not happening, so JBJ has to be in the package. But I am on record that Boston will want a second tier pitcher based on their 2nd half success. Yes, I'd easily take a package built around those two. I'd also like Kopech and a few other prospects, but there's no doubt I'd make that type of deal. And IMO, the Red Sox really might consider doing it depending on how their pitching does in the playoffs. Pomeranz has been a disappointment so far and other than Price, I'm not sure they have a starter with elite stuff that you'd like in October. And as great as Moncada & Benintendi are as prospects (and they're great), they're somewhat expendable for Boston. They still have Devers in the pipeline for 3B and could sign a free agent OF to replace Andrew. Throw in the fact that the Yankees could be major players for Sale and I could see the Red Sox being very interested this offseason.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 07:03 PM) What kind of package do you think is realistic? One thing that I fear is that the teams most well-equipped to trade for Sale (Red Sox/Dodgers) are teams where money isn't really an issue, so the cheap contracts of Sale/Quintana might not be as attractive to them as they would be to other clubs. They might also prefer to give up a lighter package for someone like Archer/Odorizzi/Teheran/Gray and hold on to their assets. I'd agree if the market was flush with starting pitching, but it's not. There are simply too many competive teams out there for us not to get a quality package. Now, I'm not expecting JBJ or Mookie Betts from the Red Sox, but I still think they have the minor league pieces to get a deal done. And they may reconsider a Moncada/Benintendi/prospects for Sale deal this offseason depending how their rotation does in the playoffs. Also, the Red Sox can always use their financial muscle to sign position players to make up for any prospects they give up in a deal for Chris. His contract is still valuable to big market teams. I also think the Cubs being as good as they are may help us. NL contenders will need to load up in order to be competitive with them. A team like the Pirates may decide it's time to add an ace to their young core and they have the minor league pieces to get a deal done. The Dodgers & Nationals are also flush with talent. I can't give you specific names, but if we're willing to focus on prospects or guys recently called up (like the Yankees' Sanchez), I think we should be able to get a quality deal done. I think people expecting an established superstar plus prospects are fooling themselves.

For those arguing we may not get a haul for Sale, just look at the starting pitching market. Rich Hil, Jeremy Hellickson, & Andrew Cashner are the cream of the crop. Meanwhile, due to the second wild card, there will be tons of teams looking to compete and in need of pitching. Obviously nothing is a certainty, but we should be able to get an incredible package if our front office in executes properly.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 01:17 PM) WhiteSoxDave reported tis last week. Oh s***, didn't realize that. Did he have any other details?

Got this text from a close friend this morning. Take it with some grain of salt, although I completely trust him on this type of stuff. Thought it was worth sharing nonetheless.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 10:54 PM) If they aren't willing to do it now they weren't willing to do it 6 weeks ago. Nothing has changed. We'll see how it plays out. Just remember for every Kris Bryants there are 2 Byron Buxtons. Unfair or not, the Sox fan base would absolutely expect to see immediate results from a top 10 prospect that is "MLB ready" involved in a Sale trade. Again, who cares what the fanbase thinks? The front office is paid to design and execute a strategy that delivers sustainable success. Short-sighted and/or hypocritical fans should have no impact on their decision-making.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 10:47 PM) Who said the fan base was content last year? Dramatic much? I said the fan base is increasingly more impatient and frustrated now than they were a year ago (that doesn't mean the fan base was content last year) while you said they were equally frustrated and impatient last year. You're wrong. In absence of an official poll, I will let others chime in on this subject (well Caulfield already did). I'll agree with you here. The anger started to heat up in the offseason when we failed to land a single impact free agent in a buyer's market. It then cooled quite a bit during the 23-10 start, but quickly regained steam as the team collapsed and we saw our half-ass offseason for what it was. However, I think it was the lack of moves at the deadline that really broke the camel's back. Absolutely ridiculous we only made one move while other protective sellers were able to clean up.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 10:31 PM) Exactly. The "possibility" of a Sale or Q trade at the deadline and then nothing happening really rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. I think you left out one other big thing - the success of the north side club. The success of the Cubs and the notion that the Sox should mirror their plan (combined with the continued playoff draught), has led to 90% of Sox fans demanding a rebuild. Side note, It's a very small sample size and he's still very young but Yoan Moncada (the much desired centerpiece of a Sale trade) has struck out in 10 of his first 17 big league ABs, including his last 7 consecutive ABs. Welcome to the big leagues kid. Just another reminder that not all "can't miss" MLB ready prospects are capable of immediately producing on the big stage. If we're rebuilding who cares if a prospect is capable of immediately producing on the big stage? We'd have plenty of time for them to take their lumps. And citing a batter's first 17 plate appearances as proof of anything is beyond ridiculous. I'd happily take Moncada & Benintendi as the centerpieces in a Sale trade. Unfortunately, I doubt the Red Sox would be willing to do that now.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 01:58 PM) You don't trade Rodon and Anderson in a rebuild. Those are the types of guys you want to acquire, not trade away. The rest...sure. Though I'd still have really tough time trading Eaton and Abreu. I'd want packages just a tad under what I'd want for Q for those two. Oh I'm not suggesting you trade Rodon or Anderson, I'm just saying a rebuild is when you trade core guys (and they're simply part of our core). Obviously the guys should be looking to deal are Sale, Quintana, Abreu, & Eaton. And I'm in agreement with you, I'd rather deal the pitchers than the position players, but would open to dealing any and all of them if the returns are right.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) No it's not. Trading veterans for minor leaguers is rebuilding. Why would it only be considered rebuilding if they traded Sale and/or Q? They aren't going to trade everyone away. Rebuilding means trading from your core, so guys like Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, Rodon, Anderson, & Jones. Trading a bunch of guys a year from free agency and coming off poor seasons is definitely not rebuilding. Instead of arguing semantics, explain how such a strategy (deal the complimentary pieces) gets us closer to the playoffs or helps us achieve sustainable success.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 01:32 PM) It is possible to do a near-full rebuild by not trading Sale and Q but it would involve trading just about everyone else - Eaton, Abreu, Melky, Gonzalez, Frazier, Robertson, Lawrie. Should be able to get some really nice pieces for those guys. Sure it won't be the haul that Sale and Q would bring back but I would still expect 4 or 5 top 100 prospects that are near MLB ready (Eaton should bring back 2 by himself). Would be great to get another young high profile arm to round out that rotation. A rotation consisting of Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer, and Glasnow would be fun to watch even if the offense stinks while guys like Collins, Anderson, Tilson, Sanchez, Navarez, Engel and whoever else comes over via trade take their lumps. Certainly that would be one way to clear major salary ahead of the 2018-2019 FA class. Would likely clear enough payroll to be below $75MM heading into 2017-2018 free agency. So you want to trade everything but Sale & Quintana for a one year shot in 2019? Because Sale will be gone after that season. Why not just trade Sale? Is that one year window really worth what your forgoing in value today for Chris?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) Getting something is better than nothing. I imagine Melky and Frazier and Robertson have some value around the league. Once they trade Sale and or Q for prospects that don't turn into MVP candidates, everyone who is so gung ho to get rid of every player, will change their tune. They can always trade Sale or Q in a year or 2. No sense in trading him just to get rid of him. If trading an ace for prospects is a guarantee to make teams better, I have no idea why teams pay them so much money. But that's not a rebuild, that's just more retooling. And how does it help us maximize the three year window we have with Chris under control? You're punting at least the 2017 season by trading guys like Frazier, Melky, & Robertson and now have three big holes to fill before the 2018 season. If all goes well, which is unlikely for reasons listed numerous times, you have two seasons to compete before you lose Chris Sale for nothing. Does that really sound like a good plan to you? Again, this retooling nonsense has to end. Like Hahn said in the STH event, we aren't going to get better until we take a step back. More retooling is just delaying the inevitable. There are obvious risks when it comes to rebuilding, but they are far less than more half-ass retooling. Our track record over the past 10 seasons speaks for itself.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 12:25 PM) He mentioned Melky, Robertson, Frazier, and Lawrie's contracts expiring soon. I would imagine they may be the first lined up out the door. Although if they do trade Frazier, I would hang on to Lawrie. He isn't going to bring much back, and has had nice stretches this year. You could put him at 3B, and hope he plays well enough to flip at the deadline if they aren't winning. It would really be radical to trade Sale and Q. I would imagine that is not the plan unless they get an offer they can't turn down. And what's that going to accomplish? Trading a bunch of guys coming off average to below average seasons with only a year left of control? How does that make us better exactly? That's just a half-ass rebuild and we'll end up losing Sale in three year with no chance of being competitive. You're so anti rebuild that you're not even making sense any more.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 07:09 AM) You would think all of our core assets are gone after next season with the way some people talk. They are all locked up thru 2019 at a minimum. Here's the other thing - the original core of Eaton, Sale, Q, and Abreu is growing as we speak by adding guys like Rodon and Anderson and hopefully in the near future Fulmer, Burdi, Collins, and Hansen. Can always retool by not only signing FA but also by trading expiring contracts like Melky, Robertson, Gonzalez, and Frazier too if they don't fit into the plan thru 2019. Sure they won't get the haul of a Sale or Q but did anyone think the Cubs would get the type of hail they got for expiring contracts Feldman or Shark/Hammel? You're basically arguing for non-stop retooling with this post, which is exactly why we're in this predicament in the first place. And how does trading the expiring contracts of B/C type players help us become competive before Sale leaves for free agency exactly? You're only making it even more abundantly clear that while our window is technically three years, it's more likely one year unless several prospects make leaps in 2017. And I'm not sure who you think those guys may be. Collins might be able to fill a spot in 2018 if we give up on him as a catcher. I don't think anyone else from our 2016 draft class, other than Burdi, will help before 2019. Who else in the system do you expect to become a major league contributor before then? I get that rebuilding is a painful proposition, but it's the right move for the organzation at this point time.

12 Team 0.5 PPR League QB Cam Newton (5th) RB Todd Gurley (1st) RB C.J. Anderson (3rd) WR Allen Robinson (2nd) WR T.Y. Hilton (4th) WR Michael Floyd (6th) FL Rashad Jennings (7th) FL Stefon Diggs (8th) TE Zac Miller (13th) DEF Broncos (12th) BE Christine Michael (9th) BE Torrey Smith (10th) BE Tajae Sharpe (11th) BE Darren Sproles (14th) BE Matthew Stafford (15th) Thoughts? Obviously TE is a huge concern and will be a focus area on the waiver wire. I also have some worries about my WR3 & WR4 (Floyd & Diggs), but don't think either was a huge reach where selected and both have significant upside. And I was ecstatic to get Michael in the 9th & Sharpe in the 11th, two guys I had targeted in the 9 to 11 range.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:44 PM) Rick and / or Kenny can say whatever they want. The only person who when they speak matters, is JR. And all indications are pointing to him 'not" wanting a rebuild. We'll see. Maybe he can be talked into changing his mind. And another poster mentioned a good point. The Sox are near the bottom in attendance and at the bottom in TV ratings. If they suck another five years because of a true rebuild, from that standpoint it doesn't matter. They are getting more than enough revenue from the different streams to keep themselves going. JR won't be wondering where his next meal is going to come from if they decide to tear it down and average 12 thousand a game. Mark Multiple people on the radio have suggested Reinsdorf is open to a rebuild. And Dick Allen said that Rick Hahn strongly hinted at a rebuild today during a season ticket holder event. Throw in the fact that Burdi & Fulmer aren't being called up and the bogus reasons why, and I honestly believe we're heading for a rebuild.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 09:55 PM) Good. Get him to W-S next April and have him starting games. Birmingham, but yes I agree. And if we really go the rebuild route, I fully expect us to give him that opportunity.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 09:21 PM) Eh, I think some fans like to complain for the sake of complaining and I'm not sure that's better than the who-gives-a-damners. Many Sox fans have stated that they have no interest in attending games with the current state of the team so I would expect that will turn around if they get the full rebuild they so desperately desire. I'll be curious to see what the attendance figures show, numbers don't lie...Wouldn't be shocked to see them dip below 20k/game if they roll out a couple consecutive seasons of 90+ losses after this year. Who cares about any of this? We need to rebuild now because we're unable to build around our core assets before their value is completely gone. It doesn't matter if fans are miserable for the next few years or if attendance drops. All that matters is building a major league core and minor league pipeline that can lead to sustainable success. Sucks we're at this point and I don't look forward to the next few years of White Sox baseball, but it's the only option for us at this time.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 12:56 AM) I wish I had a group of guys committed enough for that format. That would be awesome. I have ended up with CJ Anderson in all four leagues. I like him in Kubiak's offense with that defense. He was hurt at the beginning of last year and once he got a break he came back and was awesome. They dropped his side kick too. Everything seems like his stock is trending up but he fell in all of my leagues. Basically that's what I have in Anderson and I'd like to hear your opinions on him. He's only my RB1 in the 2QB league where I jumped Newton/Brady/ODB/Robinson/Allen early. What rounds did you land him in? I have my draft tonight and am targeting him for the 3rd round. Not sure if he'd make it to the 4th round in our league, where quality RBs go early despite it being 0.5 PPR.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 11:52 PM) Ignoring all of your melodramatic bulls***, I'll answer your actual civilized question here. He was taken 16th overall. 6th RB off the board. And he took Doug Martin and Jeremy Hill in the 3rd and 5th. He contacted me and said he wants to trade one of his extra RB for a WR. Do you have a bunch of weird rules? How does David Johnson go 16th and why did you pass on him twice? People are going to need to better understand the rules/scoring of your league in order to critique your roster.