Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 6, 2014 -> 07:44 PM) What AL teams could use an upgrade at DH? Anyone want to take a crack at this?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 08:02 PM) Still think it's insane to trade him for a relief pitcher and then run Sierra/Taylor out there. How likely are those guys to be improvements? Taylor is already 4 years older than Dayan. With Gillaspie not hitting for power, catcher not giving us anything, Semien/Johnson/Eaton not power guys...and losing Dunn as well, you just can't give up on him quite yet. Farrell mentioned Abreu, Dunn, Viciedo and then Ramirez hitting with pop this year. Losing all three of those guys isn't a great idea at USCF. 100% agree. I also think it's hard to evaluate Tank only using a half season of ABs. He had a crazy April and a horrendous June and in general is a pretty streaky hitter. However, I do think its promising that his BB rate is up and his K rate is down and both those trends pass the eye test (much better approach at the plate this season). Now we're fianlly starting to see that power return to his game. IMO, it's ways too early to truly judge his 2014 performance, but I think he's shown enough so far to be given the rest of the season.

Tank officially a league average hitter with a wRC+ of 100.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 07:38 PM) Good take. You hope Nieto can get through the year, continue to improve in the offseason, and then maybe be ready to compete for a starting job next spring. That is extremely optmitisc however. As of now I'd proceed as if we have zero starting caliber catchers on the roster. Assuming anything else is ludicrous. I will say that Tyler Flowers def scraped against his floor as a prospect but did it the exact opposite most expected. He can't hit for s*** but he's a decent defensive catcher, go figure. My guess is Nieto starts next year in AAA and serves as the organization's #3 catcher. Ideally he spends the entire season there and is ready to contribute by 2016 (likely as a backup). I really think Hahn is going to find a way to acquire a legit starting catcher before next season though. We really can't waste another season not attempting to develop a long-term as answer to the position.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 07:27 PM) Tyler Flowers. Yikes. 9 for his last 96, with 43 K's. OPS now sinking below 600. How long before they pull the plug??? For Nieto? Honestly, I think it's quite clear at this point that our intention with Nieto is to get him through the season with the least amount of damage to his confidence, which means limiting his playing time. The good news is that Flowers will not be our starting catcher next year, Hahn isn't blind and can see how horrific Tylee is offensively.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 06:47 PM) Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 7m Sources: White Sox are willing to move Gordon Beckham in the right deal now, but Jose Quintana remains unavailable. @FOXSports1 Good to hear on both fronts. If this team is realistically targeting 2015 or 2016 to compete, then a rotation built around Sale, Quintana, & Rodon is a must. Might as well move Beckham now so that Semien, Sanchez, or Johnson can get a couple of months of development at the major league level.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 02:15 PM) I am shocked Baez is still in their top ten. Apparently striking out in 32.2% of his PAs is of no concern to them. He'd probably strike out in 40% of his PAs in the MLB. I get that he's only 21 but what does this guy have to do to lose some of his shine? It's really apparent to me that he is being overrated at this point. I'm not trying to hate on the Cubs system, because it's clearly one of the best in baseball, but it does get over-hyped to some extent. 2014 Baez is a perfect example and some of their secondary prospects get more kudos than they deserve. Again, it's a great system, but a lot of these prospects get extra hype for that very reason and would definitely be rated lower if they were in another organization.

What AL teams could use an upgrade at DH?

The way I look at the situation is like this. Unless you can get some actual value for Viciedo right now, we're better off giving a full season and using him as an insurance policy in LF/DH heading into the offseason. If Hahn is somehow able to upgrade both positions, then dump Viciedo for whatever you can, as someone will absorb his $5M salary. Otherwise, you at least have a young, high potential hitter with multiple years of team control to roll the dice on. Again, we need to look at the bigger picture here. We have multiple needs to fill where we don't have internal options. To realistically think we can acquire a starting catcher, a #2/#3 caliber RH starter, a left-handed power bat, and several RP in just one offseason is already quite ambitious. I don't see a reason to create another hole right now unless value is there.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 6, 2014 -> 06:31 PM) It depends on if they are willing to pay him $5 million as a 2nd year arb candidate next year. You keep saying this, but I still don't get why it matters? Either you want to give Dayan one last shot or you don't, a $5M salary should have little impact on the decision given our financial flexibility going forward.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Jul 6, 2014 -> 06:12 PM) Why do people think Alexei isn't getting in? Hes been second in voting for a while... Because the #1 vote getter at the position is not deserving, which makes it harder for Alexei to make it. Having said that, I'm guessing AL players respect and may vote him in as the reserve.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 6, 2014 -> 06:01 PM) They've been showing him in the HR derby commercial too. He'll make it as the main 1b backup, Alexei will make it as a backup, Sale is borderline. I think Sale is a lock, Alexei is borderline IMO.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 6, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) I think Alexei is the best bet of them all. Not sure if anyone else gets in, but they very well may. How would Abreu not make it? I think he's all but a guarantee.

I think arguing the Cubs won't have money to spend in a few years is pretty ridiculous, but having said that, buying top end starting pitching in free agency is typically a losing investment. Giving David Price $20M+/year for 7 years won't end pretty for them and that's if they are the lucky winners. Trading Shark was no doubt the right move, but they'll have to go outside the organization to add a #1 & #2 starter, which will be both expensive and risky. Obviously it could still work out for them, but I think developing your own starting pitching is a much safer way to ensure long-term success.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 10:42 PM) Sports fans (me included) are some of the dumbest entities to walk the earth. You think Theo/Jed has ALL of these guys making the big league club and dominating? You think Theo/Jed don't know their pitching inventory is low? They've completed the first part of their mission. They've stockpiled a bevy of athletic, versatile, blue-chippers aging from 20-22. They've just about guaranteed themselves another top 5 pick in next year's draft aka another legit asset. As far as positions and who stays and who gets traded, that will all work itself out over the next 12-18 months. But make no mistake about it, the Cubs are coming. And they're coming soon. And I don't want to hear s*** about the Pirates and Royals. When it's time to spend (the Cubs), they will. Yup, because buying starting pitching has proven to be failproof.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 02:11 PM) That's the thing. Danks would be an improvement. Things are uglier now. You might well be someone who doesn't fully appreciate the respective value they bring as defenders. Again, this is the problem analyzing the game of baseball from a context neutral perspective. As bad as some people think Viciedo has been offensively, he's been close to league average. Danks is an absolute black hole with the bat and takes away value from the guys batting before and after him. Sure, he's a better base-runner and will get to a few more balls, but LF is one of the few spots where you can play a power bat that isn't great in the glove. The whole "a run saved is a run earned" is nice in principle, but field a lineup full of great defense, bad offense players and you're team will suck because context does matter. I love WAR as a stat for benchmarking players, but I really hate how often it's being used as the end all be all. Like any good stat it should be used to help tell a story, not be the story itself.

As painful as it is to admit, this is a great trade for the Cubs. Shark is incredibly overrated and they weren't competing next year with him. I laugh at some of these pro-Cubs posts that assume all their prospects will make it, but they sure do have a nice collection of young hitters. It will be interesting to see how they acquire all the pitching they'll need though. As we can see with this very deal, trading for established pitching is never cheap.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 11:48 AM) The Sox would love to get rid of Danks's contract. Decent-upside, A-ball players is all that is that would be needed. Danks is nothing more than a fourth starter with a bad contract. Disagree here, Danks may be overpaid but his salary won't prevent us from making moves going forward. Therefore, I'd like to see some real value in return or I'd just hold on to him. Not like we're loaded with pitching at the top of our system.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 08:43 AM) I don't think anybody said scraps. I believe "Maurer is reasonable for him" was about the lowest Viciedo was rated. Took me 8 posts in this thread to find this: "Anything for Viciedo is pretty good." There are plenty of other posts along these same lines in this thread and others.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 08:26 AM) Wait. That is not the reality of the situation. You are not going to trade Viciedo for cash. The object of trading him is get a a player(s) back who fill a hole. So if you trade him and get another outfielder, a SP or C in return, you are not worse off. You only trade him if you get something of equal value back. The Boston article yesterday mentioned one of their 3 young right handed starting picthers in AAA/ML and a prospect. That might fill the 4th SP spot and maybe you get lucky w a prospect. You don't trade Viciedo unless it fills an existing need or unless you get what you perceive to be a better OF option. Umm, have you read this thread or countless others? Half this site would like to dump Viciedo for scraps.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 07:36 AM) Danks isn't the next man up. Michael Taylor is. Danks has posted a better wRC+ over his last 600 AAA plate appearances than Taylor, is the better defender and probably the better baserunner. What makes you think Taylor is next in line exactly? Because he was a failed Baseball America top 100 prospect? The fact that Danks has more major league plate appearances despite never being a highly regarded prospect is pretty telling IMO. No one up until now has wanted to give Taylor an extended look. What is it about him that you think will cause Hahn to be that guy?

The most important point in Jake's post is that we promoted a guy to AAA after striking out 31% of the time in AA. If that doesn't give Hahn enough merit to fire Buddy Bell I don't know what else does.

The reality of the situation for us is if we trade Viciedo now, we enter next offseason with holes at LF & DH and a huge lack of power in our lineup. Given some of our other needs, primary C & SP, that's a pretty large to-do-list for just one offseason and with no solid internal options to fill them. What's it going to cost us in terms of cash and prospects to fill all these holes from the outside? Will there be other options even available? People can hate all they want on Viciedo and be eager to move him, but when Jordan Danks is the next best option we have in-house, things can get a lot uglier. Having said this, I'm sure the stats-oriented posters will say Danks' superior defense and base-running would make him a more valuable player, which I would find laughable. At some point, certain posters have to accept the fact that baseball is not context-neutral and teams with the highest WARs aren't awarded automatic playoff spots. A team playing 81 games at the Cell with Conor at 3B, Garcia in RF, & Danks in LF (or someone like him) isn't going to do well offensively over the course of a season. It's critical to have some balance in your lineup and having those three guys at power-based positions would be a disaster IMO.

The reason I think Viciedo deserves a bigger leash than most people give him is because he came into this league at a young age with almost no plate discipline. Basically, we did him a huge disservice by bringing him up so early and forcing him to become a more selective hitter at the major league level. That's very difficult to accomplish and it makes sense why he has struggled like he has so far in his career. However, if you've watched him play this year you can see a much more patient approach at the plate. He's finally making some progress in this area and to not give the rest of his offensive game time to catch up to the adjustments he has made would be incredibly foolish IMO. No one is pushing him whatsoever and his value is obviously at an all-time low right now. Might as well give him the rest of 2014 before we sell him for pennies on the dollar, because it is possible for his offensive game to finally come together. The tools to be an impact hitter are clearly there.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jun 30, 2014 -> 12:15 PM) Feder says that Boers is the highest paid Score on-air personality. Chew on that for a minute. That's absolute insanity if true. He's easily the worst personality on the Score, even worse than Hanley and that dude sucks.