Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) I will go in on my gamble as them moving Fulmer this offseason. They've treated him exactly the way they treated all the other guys they moved in previous years and he's basically the only trade chip they have that would interest anyone other than this year's draftees. That "2nd trade" Rick Hahn referred to that will show everyone what they're doing? That's my guess. Then you better pray to God that Shields can pitch like a #4 and not one of the worst starters in baseball history.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 12:37 PM) More optimistic on Zack Burdi. Nate: Any chance that Zach Burdi is a starter? Klaw: Yes, a small chance, but a definite chance. Even if it's a small chance, I'd like to see them explore it. As weak as our system is at the moment, we could enter the 2017 season with Fulmer (AAA), Burdi, (AAA/AA), Adams (AA), Stephens (AA), & Hansen (A+) as starters in high A & above. That's a very nice group of starting pitching prospects to have in the pipeline, especially in the event we move Sale and/or Quintana.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) yeah, trading their best players for prospects will definitely fix that. The only thing it will do is guarantee the people who love to tell you how long it's been since the White Sox have been to the playoffs, will have a guarantee of the same gripe for many more years. I will admit, that would satisfy several here. So what's your plan exactly? Sale is as good as gone after the 2019 season. How would you build a contender in this three year window? You keep rejecting the rebuild it route, I'd love to hear your "go for it" plan.

I'm sorry, but what happened to this deal being worth $6M+ a year? Am I missing something here?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:36 AM) For one, the Arrieta trade was more luck than anything else. The Sox tried to trade for him, but Crain couldn't pass physically. And we don't have the Sox future GM handling that position for another team willing to ship them their top guy. A lot has to go right. Even with Larry Himes, the Sox wanted Mike Harkey, the Cubs took him, so they had to settle on Jack McDowell. They wanted Jeff Jackson, the Phillies took him, so they had to pick Frank Thomas. The Cubs had needed a 3B since they traded Santo, they for some reason took Ty Griffin. The Sox chose Robin next. One or 2 of these go the other way, who knows how much longer it takes. The Sox have a decent core. It's just fairly small and once you get away from the core, very mediocre, and that is being generous. It just isn't realistic to think so many trades could work out as perfectly as they have for the Cubs. But we're dealing top 30 assets in Sale, Quintana, & Eaton. I would never expect us to replicate the trades that brought them Russell, Arrieta, & Rizzo, but when dealing the chips that we'd have in play, yes I think it's realistic to expect us to land several future star players. Combine that with several strong draft classes (and our 2016 class shows how much we've improved in this area) and we can definitely do a Cubs-like rebuild.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:27 AM) But again what's the big rush? Why not go for it again next year and move those guys after next year if it doesn't work out? Five reasons: 1. Because Sale & Quintana are detoriating assets and they lose value the longer you hold on to them 2. Keeping them another season means putting their fates in the hands of the baseball gods and risking injury 3. The next two free agent classes suck, so improving the team will be a challenge given our bottom five farm system 4. Improving the team enough to compete (if possible) will likely result in lost draft picks and/or gutting the system 5. Even if you magically fill all your holes this offseason, Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie are free agents after the 2017 season

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:16 AM) There are a whole lot of people who seem to believe that the Sox can take the Cubs path. The Cubs have 10 players with 2+ WAR seasons. Three of them were free agents, two were draft picks (both top 10), and the remaining five were acquired via trade. Why can't we take the Cubs' path? Even with potential downturns in attendance, we have enough fixed income to support a $90M+ payroll and could definitely be players in the epic 2018/19 free agent class.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:02 AM) It took the Cubs 5 years of averaging 90+ losses to rebuild. The Astros took 6. The Twins are in year 5 of 6 at 90+, they did win 83 last year. Those, I would guess, "are done properly". The decades of droughts like KC and Pittsburgh, not so good. I can see why JR doesn't want to do it. If he isn't going to do it, he has to up the payroll and not depend on J-Roll. The Cubs didn't start their rebuilding until 2012, they were simply a bad team "going for it" in 2010 & 2011. Their rebuild took three years to complete. The same applies to the Astros, who started in 2011 and took four years to complete. These are your comps for the White Sox, especially if we sell our cost-controlled talent. I hate the idea of throwing away three or four seasons as much as the next guy, but I hate the idea of being stuck in MLB hell another 10 years even more so.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) f***ing up a rebuild and punting on a decade is an absolutely stupid way to respond to "a clear lack of direction". But the game has changed and it's nearly impossible to take that long to rebuild a club if done the right way. The combination of high draft picks and huge bonus pools (amateur & international) gives the worst teams a huge edge in rebuilding. Nothing is obviously fool-proof, but we could have the best system in baseball and a young necleus of talent at the major league level by selling Sale, Quintana, etc. and having three strong draft classes on top of the one we just had. We're in a very unique situation in that we could kick off a rebuild by selling off three of the top 30 assets in baseballs in a huge seller's market. It gives us a headstart no other rebuilding team has had. Again, nothing is fool-proof, but we have a better chance of reaching the playoffs in the next five years with a "blow it up" strategy than another "half ass / go for it" strategy. Unless ownership is willing to spend and the front office can actually execute their offseason plan (both unlikely based on last year), there is really only one choice here. Blow this s*** up and let's start building towards sustainable success.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 09:35 AM) We haven't seen anywhere near the worst. We didn't go decades without being over .500. Wow, it really seems like you're ok being stuck in the MLB version of NBA hell. That's awesome we float right around .500 each year and pretend to be competitive for a few months, but that doesn't change the underlying fact we're never legit playoff contenders. So while other teams pick a clear direction and reap the rewards (playoff runs or huge bonus pools), we remain in a perpetual cycle of mediocrity because we're afraid things can get worse in the short-run. And guess what's going to happen when Sale leaves for nothing in three years? Thinge have to get worse before they can get better, otherwise we're simply delaying the inevitable. How many other teams do you see rebuilding on the fly? That should tell you everything you need to know about how stupid our approach to organzation building is and explain exactly why we're in this version of NBA hell.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 10:08 AM) All great reasons they shouldn't be actively shopping Sale and/or Q. If teams want to come to you, and blow you away, hey great, you listen and make it work. If not, you still have Q and Sale. And what, ride off into the sunset of mediocrity until we lose Sale in a few years? Holding onto Sale & Quintana is pointless if you're never going to be able to build a winner around them. Obviously you don't give them away, but their value will never be higher than this offseason and if this magical haul some posters are expecting isn't there, then maybe you need to reset your expectations. There will be enough bidders this offseason to get fair market value for them, whatever that may be. I've said this so many times, but the absolute worst thing this franchise can do is hold onto these guys and end up getting nothing in return and not winning s***. There needs to be a sense of urgency this offseason to either to buy talent around them or to aggressively sell them. Waiting to be overwhelmed is the worst approach for a team in dire need of a clear direction.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 09:39 AM) The White Sox aren't in a position as an organization to be giving up any draft picks to sign free agents. Then they should be selling. They can't realistically expect to fix the team in free agency without giving up picks.

I'd really like to see Coats get a legit look. Given the lack of talent in our organization, we definitely need to see if there's any chance Jason is part of the long-term puzzle. Doubtful, but better than giving Shuck & Avi more at-bats.

I'm going to be hard-pressed to support this franchise if Avi is back in any meaningful role. He's been below replacement level four years in a row, it would be an utter slap in the face to our fanbase to trot him back out there for another season. Having said that, I seriously doubt he's on the roster next year. I think it's far more likely they hand Tilson the CF job, which would also be a complete joke.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) ESPN reports the team that claimed him was only really interested in blocking him from getting to another team. That makes me think Twins, based on the public knowledge that the White Sox have/had interest. No offense, but this literally makes no sense. Small-market teams that are 33 games below .500 aren't blocking teams, let alone blocking a team that's 4th place in the division. I have no idea how you could rationally come to this conclusion.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) Go back and read what I wrote. He and Avi are very similar offensively at this point. Why is that inaccurate? Who cares what a guy did in 2013 in 2017? He's in AAA. He has to be a colossal bozo. Why would he suddenly thrive with the White Sox? And as I pointed out and you ignored, Avi is probably a non tender. If Avi had Puig's defense, what would you say if the Sox gave him a 2 year $12 million extension, 2/3s of what is owed Puig? Sorry, but comparing Puig to Avi is just wrong. Puig has had two elite offensive seasons plus put up a solid one as recently as 2015. Meanwhile, Avi has accomplished nothing at the major league level across multiple seasons (best is a wRC+ of 100) and is a horrible defender & base-running on top of it. Whether taking a chance on Puig's incredible upside would be a smart move is up for debate, but it's nothing like taking that same chance on Avi, who has proven he's a terrible baseball player.

Humanity's need to jump on a bandwagon is pretty impressive.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 11:41 AM) He's just 20 years old in AA. I'd give him some time. Although, his wikipedia page says he's 118. I'm not writing him off by any means, but let's not get overly excited over a five start stretch in which he's striking out less than 4.5 batters per nine innings. Plain and simple, that isn't going to translate to the majors. Having said that, there's still plenty of time for his stuff to bounce back and get closer to 7-8 K's per nine innings.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 10:44 PM) FutureSox ‏@FutureSox Spencer Adams last 5 starts: 33.1 IP, 12 R, 10 ER (2.70 ERA), 15 K, 3 BB, 31 hits allowed. 15 K's in 33.1 innings is pretty bad. He's not going to maintain anything close to that ERA without striking out more guys.

I may be in the minority here, but I really liked the first few seasons of True Blood. It got bad prett quickly, but it was really good for a short stretch IMO.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 08:45 PM) Doesn't he lose some of his defensive advantages when you remove him from SS/3B? SSS, but he has a higher UZR/150 at 2B than SS or 3B.

Sox need to trade Lawrie in the offseason and make Saladino the everyday 2B.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 10:32 AM) Leagues with salary caps aren't any more competitive than MLB, right? And it sure as heck won't drive prices of anything but players' salaries down. What salary cap league isn't more competitive than MLB? The NBA is probably the lone exception and that's due to a lack of stars relative to teams and a desire amongst players to live/work in big markets. A salary cap would be awesome for MLB.

Sopranos The Wire Game of Thrones Without question the best three, just not sure the order. And where is the Oz love? A truly entertaining show despite its shortcomings.

What's crazy is we entered the 2016 offseason with two position players coming off 2+ WAR seasons, suggesting numerous places to potentially upgrade. And despite additions at 3B, 2B, SS, CF, & C, the front office was unable to add a single 2+ WAR player. To add insult to injury, the guy they gave the majority of at-bats at DH is sporting an 85 wRC+. How in the world can Jerry Reinsdorf consider these facts and not make sweeping changes in the front office?