Chicago White Sox

Just for hypothetical sakes, a Sale for Benintendi, Devers, Rodriguez, Kopech, & Swihart trade would require two additional 40 man spots on a net basis and putting us right at 40. With the desire to get certain moves done prior to the CBA expiring, it probably makes sense to have that extra roster spot available now. Obviously this is all dependent on a large multi-player happening soon, but to Dick's point I don't really see another reason to cut bait on him until really need that roster spot.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 13, 2016 -> 02:59 AM) I would try to deal Nate Jones separately, or at least include him in the Yankees trade and bring back Rutherford and a low level guy. Take Jones and Vazquez out of your Red Sox/Sale trade. I think that's a huge overpay for Abreu. I don't think his value is that high. I like the Quintana trade, but I feel the Adam Eaton trade is light. Add in 2B Willie Calhoun and SS Gavin Lux. Remove Puig. I agree with all these points. I think people are really sleeping on how valuable Nate Jones is. He's locked up for the next four years at a total price of $18M, which is less than Jansen & Chapman might make in a single year. IMO, he's a serious trade chip and should command a huge package on his own. The Ken Giles deal is what we should be aiming for. The proposed Red Sox deal above greatly undervalues both of these players IMO. The proposed Abreu deal is definitely a huge overpay and will not happen. I think he's worth more than some posters here think, but he's not commanding three top 100 prospects. I do wonder if the Astros would be willing to do a straight Abreu for A.J. Reed swap. I actually think that trade make a lot of sense for both sides. That Eaton trade is ridiculously light. We're talking about a guy who might put up $200M in surplus value over the next five years of his contract. Cody Bellinger is a nice looking prospect, but he can not be the second piece in an Eaton deal. We'd need a decent major league piece plus multiple prospects to come close to fair value. Replace Puig with Pederson and add in another piece like Lux and we have a deal worth considering. Also, you're going to be very disappointed with any Melky trade. He's not going net us much in return IMO.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 08:52 PM) Well I think we can all put 2 and 2 together between his tweets earlier and changing his avatar and bio on twitter. He's gone. Definitely. And if he's truly be non-tendered this early, it suggests the Sox should be active the rest of the month.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 08:44 PM) This. I'm waiting for someone credible to confirm it. He's definitely not coming back to the Sox and a non-tender seems pretty likely. Unfortunately for us, Brett Lawrie is an average at best baseball player who is consistently plagued by injury and makes a non-meaningless amount of money.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 08:34 PM) That Source stuff is laughable. A non tender wouldn't be official until 12-2. I don't doubt he's gone, but there are people on twitter that know stuff, and some that just want attention. Are you sure that's how it works? I'm assuming you can non-tender prior to the deadline if you need a roster spot.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 08:04 PM) Does it really? Or is that sarcasm? Sorry, it was sarcasm or moreso wishful thinking. But hey, maybe there are some legs here. I know Bregman is a SS, but has he played any 2B in his career?

What's our 40 man roster at? Non-tendering Lawrie would clear a spot if needed. Could hint at another major deal being in the works.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 07:04 PM) Oooooooooor, they'll be getting some top prospect 2b stud back in a trade. Yeah, this pretty much confirms a Sale for Moncada+ trade is coming.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 07:58 AM) No, I received those last year. My package cost $297 a ticket last year for all Weekend games and 1 Cubs. Even on groupon the lower eserved with patio is at least $50, so 2 of those, a season ticket holder party before the season and during the season with free food and drink. Plus they give you discounts up to 5 % on next season determined by the percentage of your tickets that were used. Can you name another MLB team I can get anywhere close to that? So you're getting nothing new and receiving a 7% price increase. I get it's only 2% effectively with the 5% discount, but you earned that by using all your tickets and spending $8.75 a beer and $9.00 a hot dog at those 27 games. I think you should be pissed about that because you are an incredibly loyal fan who commits a lot of time and energy to this team. I won't argue that you're still not receiving a ton of value with your particular package, but I don't like the messaging this price increase sends on the cusp of a rebuild. And for full season tickets holders in the lower bowl, 7% is a big chunk of money.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 07:25 AM) I think they raised the prices on the cheapest of the cheap,a nod maybe some others but not all. Someone here already said his went down. Probably has something downstairs. I have upper deck reserved. This " increase" will cost me about $14 total for 2 seats with my discount. So about 25 cents a game. They also threw in 2 free games with patio party, and 2 other parties. The bastards. Are the two free games and two parties new this year? You didn't get those last season?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 07:08 AM) Looks like mine went up 7% but since I used all of my tickets I get a 5% discount, so it comes out a little less than 2% on the increase. Considering a pre season party at the Chi Sox Bar and Geill with free food and drink, a season ticket holder party, and 2 free games with patio party included and what I pay, it still is probably less than the Schqumburg Boomers. They hate the fans. You really are one of kind. If they're actually going to rebuild and raised season ticket prices by 7%, then you should absolutely be pissed. That's so f***ing ridiculous I'm not sure how anyone could defend them.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 11, 2016 -> 11:02 AM) Paddy talked with one of our writers about pitching versus hitting internationally in this interview. You can get a read from him on that. The problem with this logic is the organization has shown almost no ability to develop prospects with poor hit tools. One of the reasons I think Call & Fisher definitely deserve to be rated higher than Adolfo.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 11, 2016 -> 07:56 AM) Your theory is wrong. You want to hedge your bets by taking on more risk. That's not how it works. I'll take Eaton and his contract and his 6.0 WAR seasons and keep him around for when we are ready to go unless someone is willing to pay dearly for him, and makes an offer I can't refuse. Even when they get all these prospects, they are still going to need other players. Ben Zobrist cost Theo $16 million more for one year less and he's getting up there in age. Heyward cost $184 million. Lester cost $150 million. Lackey cost $32 million. If the Sox blow it up, 3 years from now, even if the prospects acquired work out really well, they won't be able to dish out those contracts. Trading Eaton now makes no sense unless you are totally blown away. I'll ask you for a third time now, but how do you expect us to get better without trading our good players? Where are all these prospects coming from? You're not going to get much for Frazier, Robertson, Melky, & Lawrie. I'd love to hear your ideal plan, because honestly it sounds like you want more half-assing. Trade the garbage for C & D prospects and add them to a bottom five farm system. That isn't going to get us where we need to be.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 11, 2016 -> 06:38 AM) They can be traded off in July, next off-season, following July, etc. Taking the best offer isn't always a good thing. Its laughable to think all those guys are going to go over the next 2 months. What's laughable is to think they will be worth move in July, next offseason, etc. The only reason to hold onto to some of these guys is because there may not be enough buyers in a single offseason with the resources to acquire them. We may have no choice but to let teams restock their farm systems and let some of their low level prospects develop into more proven commodities. But you're also taking a huge risk that these future markets won't be a huge drop off from a seller's perspective and that these guys don't get hurt or see their production decline. IMO, our best offers for these guys are likely to come right now and we should take advantage of this unique seller's market as much as possible.

Astros GM said he's going to be aggressive and push towards making a move or two before the winter meetings. I could see him having interest in all four of Sale, Quintana, Eaton, & Abreu and they have the chips to get something done. If they're willing to give up Alex Bregman in a package for one of those first three guys, I could see a deal materializing pretty quickly.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 11, 2016 -> 06:21 AM) This and I've been trying to say this too. It's unlikely there are a number of teams willing to give up the talent it would taje to bring back one of Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Jones and even Abreu. Some of those guys will be here next year and maybe even next which is fine since some of them are signed for 4+ years. Then how do we get better? Only moving one of our studs in addition to the guys who will be free agents in 2018/2019 won't move the needle enough. We'll still be a bad baseball team with a mediocre farm system. We have to commit to a direction. That doesn't mean you have to move everyone right now, but we definitely have to move several of these guys. I'd say trading anything less than three of Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Jones, & Abreu would represent a huge failure. This is the ultimate seller's market and we must take advantage. Most of these guys are at peak value right now.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 11, 2016 -> 02:18 AM) Adam Eaton was a 6.0 WAR player. He is signed for the next 5 seasons for a total of $38 million. What is this losing surplus value? His highest salary the next 5 years is in year 5 when he is due $10.5 million. If you aren't getting surplus value and you trade him, you should be fired immediately. It would be a trade just to make a trade. People love prospects until they bust. Eaton and Davidson were ranked almost the same as prospects when they were acquired. One is a 6.0 WAR player, one won't be a 6.0 WAR player cumulatively for his career. You hold on to Eaton unless you are blown away with a can't miss package. 2 or 3 years from now he still will be signed for multiple seasons, at a huge bargain. My point is if the next three seasons are a lost cause, then 60% of his surplus value is worthless to us. So let's say his hypothetical surplus value is nearly $200M ($40M/year), his effective value to us may only be $80M. Obviously you don't just give him away, but if a team offers a package of prospects that project to provide $120M to $150M in surplus value, then we should probably take it. Yes, we lose out on some theoretical value, but from a marginal standpoint we come out ahead when considering competive factors.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 08:21 PM) I understand your theory but then maybe the rebuilding w prospects doesn't work. If you are going in expecting 50% of prospects to fail, then it makes a lot more sense trading for young established players. So we are better off w a Jackie Bradley Jr than a Moncad or Benintendi because Bradley is a proven major leaguer. Instead of Hahn trading 3 for 12 prospects he is better off getting 2 established players for each one. 6 established young players would be much better than 12 prospects My post was only intended to be theoretical, so I'm not really assuming prospects are going to bust at a 50% rate. Having said that, major leaguers are obviously much safer than prospects, but contenders are going to be very reluctant to give up established players and including them will greatly reduce the rest of the return. For a team with as many needs as us and little organizational depth, we need both quality & quantity (and as much control as possible) and the best way to accomplish that is by targeting near major league ready prospects (i.e. AA & above). I really think that's the sweet spot when dealing valuable assets like Sale & Quintana. And the good news is there are numerous contenders in need of starting pitching that are loaded with prospects. The Red Sox, Dodgers, & Astros have more than enough prospects to acquire one of our elite pitchers without hurting their ability to compete in the short-run.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 06:29 PM) My point is trading everyone who is good is foolish. The last total rebuild the Sox did was when Larry Himes was the GM. Carlton Fisk stayed. Ozzie Guillen stayed., and then they had the new park to add payroll. Trading Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Jones, all of them may wind up being pretty foolish. It is fine if you expect each trade to go perfectly, but that is pretty unlikely. Eaton has 5 years left. Do you really think you will get something that turns out better? I don't expect each trade to go perfectly, which is why making more trades hedges you risk. Let's say hypothetically Sale, Quintana, Eaton, & Jones can all land four prospects. Let's assume on average 50% of prospects acquired via trade bust. Trade all four guys and you have a decent chance of ending up with 8 productive players across the deals. But only trade one guy and you could realistically end up with anything from four hits to four misses. The more trades we make, the less randomness comes into play. So again, who would you trade is this rebuild was up to you? IMO, you pretty much have to move three of Sale, Quintana, Eaton, & Jones. Those are our big four trade chips and the only ones who will land elite prospects. If you don't move enough of them, then all we're doing is a half-ass rebuild and I'm not sure we get better in the long-run. As for Eaton specifically, I'm not sure you'll get fair value for him. And quite frankly, I'm not sure you need it. Even if the rebuild goes well, you're talking about 2 or 3 seasons before we are competitive. So if we hold onto Eaton, we're throwing away two or three years of his surplus value. There is a point in negotiations where maybe you don't quite get fair value, but that you get enough in return that you still feel it's the better move long-term. And let's not ignore the fact that Eaton is at peak value right now, so there is a bit more incentive in moving him now.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) There is one gigantic flaw in trading everybody for prospects. Prospects bust, so even if you do well, you still are going to have to fill in holes with competent players. Unlike the Cubs, they can't spend $400 million filling in those areas. A couple of these guys are going to have to stick around. I'm not sure I understand your point here. Who are you suggesting stick around? It's guys like Sale, Quintana, Eaton, & Jones who will actually bring back value. If you're going to rebuild, you should definitely move them or what is the point? And there's really no reason to hold onto the guys with one or two years left like Robertson, Frazier, or Melky. And acquiring a larger sample of prospects definitely mitigates your overall bust risk.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 01:43 PM) If you're rebuilding, you go out and sign someone like Valbuena or Hill to play 3b in the case that a Sale or other player trade does not bring back a valid 3b option. Why wouldn't you just give Davidson a look? I'm not a huge fan of his, but I think he did enough in 2016 to warrant a shot assuming we go full-rebuild and don't acquire anyone better.

I think Dan Jennings goes first. Everyone needs left-handed relievers and his cost should be fairly reasonable.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) I still think an extension is most likely. Why do you think that?

Abreu had a s***ty first half last year, but put up a wRC+ of 142 & a .898 OPS in the second half. I don't think you can look at his 2016 numbers in aggragate and value him as a player. He's not the same guy he was during his rookie year, but he's still a premium hitter and is under team control for three seasons at what should be a well below market rate if he bounces back to a 3 WAR type player. In this market, there should be at least one team willing to pony up for him. If not, he's a guy who might be worth holding onto until the trade deadline and allowing his trade value to bounce back.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 06:33 AM) No one will f***ing care at all. Hell I half want Hillary Clinton in prison for letting a white supremacist beat her in the election. Lol...I actually 100% agree with this.