Chicago White Sox

Top prospect is all pretty relative. Guys like Bellinger & DeLeon are top 25 prospects, but not the Dodgers' #1. However, they'd be the top prospect for a lot of organizations. Having this condition that you must get a team's top prospect in a Sale trade is pretty stupid IMO. You want to get the best overall package and that must measure both quantity and quality. I think the Dodgers could make an incredibly strong offer that doesn't include Urias if they give up a s***-ton of their depth.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) I can't say enough that if Urias is not in the deal, it's a loss for the Sox. I think this is a poor way to evaluate a potential trade. You have to look at the entire package and not just the centerpiece. Honestly, it probably doesn't matter, because I don't think Friedman will give up Urias. Hope I'm wrong, but I know I wouldn't if I was Friedman unless it was practically a straight-up swap.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 12:47 PM) There are plenty of reasons to be scared. Prospects bust. Here is BPs list of the top farm systems after the 2012 draft. The Sox are last. There are a lot of 4 and 5 star guys you would say "the Sox traded xxx for that?" http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=16208 I understand the necessity, but there is no reason to over do it. Trading for prospects is a risky thing. A lot of the guys who seem to be can't miss will wind up being no better than the crap the Sox already have. The Sox cannot cave. Blowing these trades, and taking whatever because "their value will never be higher" could lead to a horrendous decade or two. These trades have to be won. So let me get this straight, if we blow these trades, we could have a "horrendous decade or two", but if we hold them we avoid this risk? So no chance these guys get injured, their performance declines, or they simply leave once their contracts expire? While rebuilding is no doubt risky, doing nothing or very little is far more risky. I don't get the allure of a half-ass rebuild, it's the lack of clear direction over the past few years that has got us in this terrible spot. We need to pick a direction and commit 100% one way or the other.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 10:54 AM) You don't have to though. He has 4 years of control. Can be moved at deadline. Or next offseason. Or the one after. And why would you expect to get better offers then? The starting pitching market will be much better next offseason and Q will have one less year of control. This offseason should provide the Sox with the best estimate of what is fair value for guys like Sale & Quintana.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 08:17 AM) Eaton, like Sale and Q, would need a blown away package. He's 28 and will not be be a happy camper if we trade most of the veterans. We don't have to move him but he could be a possibility. Yeah, if Adam Eaton threw the hissy fit he did last year over not having a teenage boy in the clubhouse, imagine how he'll be when all his real friends are gone. Given his already estranged relationship with KW, there are some non-production reasons why the front office might want to move him. Still, it would be incredibly stupid for them to move Eaton right now without getting a killer offer. He'll still have a ton of value at the deadline and in the coming year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 08:06 AM) Tradimg all of their good players away for 20-25 prospects is would be Christmas for some when it happened. The reality is, they will still need more. So either you will have to trade some of those prospects for established players or sign free agents. A free agent with Eaton production 2 or 3 years from now would probably cost $200 million if not more. I don't really buy this idea we need to keep some of our good players. I think every move that we make should be about creating a serious competitive window from 2019/2020 to 2024. Eaton can fit into a portion of that window, but he'll also be a 30 to 31 year old speed-based player by that time. Meanwhile, we'll have wasted anywhere from $60M to $120M of his surplus value during our rebuilding process. I still think there are packages out there for Eaton that will provide more value during that competive window than keeping him provides. IMO, if we get that type of offer, we should definitely take it no matter how good Eaton is today.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 07:33 AM) If a rebuild is successful and in 2 or 3 seasons the Sox can compete, he is still a bargain for multiple years. Again, a top 10 in MLB Position player WAR, and it isn't like he is due to regress. Trading 6 WAR players who aren't about to become free agents, or who don't make a huge amount of money, and hoping you get back a similar player is for fools. 5 seasons from now Adam Eaton will still be paid $2 million less than what a 44 year old Bartolo Colon just signed for. Trading him would be making a trade just to make a trade. It would most likely look stupid in the end. All things considered, he actually is probably more valuable than Sale Well not sure I agree about the regressing part. Eaton is a speed guy, and while he may not steal a ton of bags, he provides a lot of value on the bases and his range in RF is a signicant driver of his value. It's very real possibility he starts declining in the next couple of years. Will he suddenly become a bad baseball player? Hell no, but assuming he's a 6 WAR player three or four years from is a pretty optimistic projection. Also, the idea of a successful rebuild in two to three years is only possible if you're dealing multiple impact pieces. Simply dealing Sale, Frazier, Melky, & Robertson isn't going to be enough. That doesn't mean we have to deal Eaton, but a couple guys like him, Quintana, Abreu, & Jones need to go to accelerate this thing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 07:18 AM) Adam Eaton is a 6WAR player with 5 years of control for $38 million. Over the last season and a half, he has been one of the top 10 position players in baseball. Why would the Sox trade him? If you are trading him why not Rodon? Why not Anderson? Dick, you're a smart poster and know the answer here. Eaton is at peak value, while Rodon & Anderson could significantly improve their value if they take that next step. You obviously need to be blown away, but there is definitely logic in moving Eaton if the right offer comes along. You'd probably have to get a decent major league piece back in the deal, because we're talking about a guy who could provide $150M to $200M in surplus value over the five years of his contract.

So in the last 24 hours, there have been reports of three teams expressing interest in Sale. That's a promising sign that a market could be developing quickly. I think it would be to our benefit for a Sale resolution to take place prior to the Winter meetings. Assuming someone meets his demands, Hahn could then focus his efforts on moving other pieces at the meetings and improve our chances of making multiple deals. I think any big moves are pretty much on hold onto they decide if Sale will be traded or kept. He's really the first domino that needs to fall.

Look, I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it. Regardless, I'm pretty happy with a package built around four BA top 100 prospects (two of which are top 25 guys, another is a top 50), a 20 year old ranked as their #1 prospect by Fangraphs, a 2017 first round comp pick, and a sleeper catching prospect just begging for an opportunity. If Chris Sale wasn't the primary trade piece, I'd feel ridiculous putting all those names in one proposal. Honestly, if blue chippers like Benintendi, Bergman, & Urias are off the table, this is about as good as a deal as we can get.

I really don't see Urias involved in a hypothetical Sale/Frazier. I think Friedman holds his ground there. However, I think a package like the following is possible. De Leon Bellinger Verdugo Alvarez Calhoun Barnes Sheffield That's four guys who could help at some point next year, along with three high-upside guys little further out. IMO, that's an absolute haul even if it's lacking that one blue chipper you'd ideally like.

QUOTE (daggins @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 09:10 PM) Given the typical Sox pace of rumors we won't see anything until the Winter Meetings. Still, any productive talks are a positive. In all honesty, the Sox should pushing hard for a Sale trade ASAP. He's really the chip that makes or breaks a rebuild, so Hahn needs to make sure if his price won't be met, he's still got enough options available to "go for it" it next year.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 09:08 PM) I'd hold off on that; let's see what the sox can do with this bunch. Move Q later, if necessary. And if you move him, it's a full rebuild, so move Eaton. The Sox aren't trading Sale and going to be better in 2017 if that's what you're suggesting.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 08:54 PM) Could Abreu and Nate Jones bring back Bregman in a trade with Houston? Probably not huh? Don't think they really need Jones and they wouldn't give up Bergman for anything less than an ace IMO.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 05:34 PM) Good then take Moncada. He was considered untouchable until he had a less than impressive 19 AB's. Oh I'll take either one as a centerpiece for Sale, but I'd probably prefer Benintendi all things considered.

QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 05:13 PM) The only problem is all the stupid trade proposals I get to see on Twitter "He's some minor league trash...we get Chris Sale" Yeah, it's amazing how much trouble fans have with valuing star players. Obviously none of us know these guys' true value, but I've seen a ton of proposals that are just way off. I think part of it is people have a tendency to overall prospects no matter how good they really are.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 05:06 PM) Listening to KC sports radio today, they went around the U.S. for a quick run around the sports of a few cities. Landed on Boston, and media guy said he'd rather give up Moncada for Sale than Benintendi. Benintendi might be the higher regarded prospect at this point.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 03:41 PM) YES. I love the prospects of trading with them. Just glad that we're finally hearing about an actual team expressing interest.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure why the Sox are even wasting their time on a Robertson trade right now. Not only are there too many quality closers available in free agency for him to have a market, but the Sox should be focused on moving their big chips and see if teams are going to pay up. It would be incredibly stupid to move Robertson but hold on to Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, & Jones. If there isn't a strong market for our elite trade chips, then we should at least make some attempt at competing. I have a bad feeling we're going to get caught in the middle again and only deal Frazier, Melky, & Robertson. Any other front office and I wouldn't be worried, but KW & Hahn have little experience selling. I really hope I'm wrong here.

Then hold onto him and hope he rebuilds his value by the deadline.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 13, 2016 -> 03:39 PM) You aint getting De Leon, Bellinger and Puig for Eaton. You'd be lucky to get one of Bellinger or De Leon. Lol...what?

1st and goal from the 1 yard line and the Rams give the ball to Benny Cunningham who fumbles. I f***ing hate Jeff Fisher.

I've seen some speculation that this could be related to him somewhat blaming the Sox for his injuries on twitter. And his recent tweet kind of fits into that narrative. Personally, I just don't think there's much interest in him at $5M and the Sox have plans for his roster spot prior to the tender deadline.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 13, 2016 -> 08:16 AM) Well, so far everyone who has season tickets discussing this increase is renewing. So why would ownership be clueless? It's not that they're clueless, it's pretty much the opposite. They know they can raise ticket prices by 7% and not lose a ton of accounts (at least not yet). The problem I have is with the reasoning. IMO, it feels like they know a rebuilding is going bring down attendance so they might as well maximize their fixed revenue by price gauging their most loyal customers. I think that fans like you deserve better, but to each their own.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 13, 2016 -> 07:54 AM) Which is why I think people are just looking far into his tweets. Whitesoxdave said he he had nothing; only rumors which are probably speculation hes been seeing at sites like this one. I think it's pretty obvious that he's gone, given he removed all the White Sox related stuff (picture, bio) from his account.