Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 07:29 AM) Selling tickets. Potential rebound to be flipped for younger assets at the deadline or offseason next year. Caulfield bro, you are the only one who would buy tickets to see Puig and unfortunately for us you live in Asia.

So now the rumors are that the Nationals view Robles as an untouchable as well, at least in talks for McCutchen. They have no chance of landing Sale (let alone him & McCutchen) if he's off-limits. Again, seems like posturing to me with Rizzo saving Robles to be that last piece to push an offer over the top.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 07:10 AM) Who is that? Isn't that some ancient civilization? lol Pretty sure he's that talking stone head dude from Legends of the Hidden Temple.

I'm sticking with my original prediction of Sale getting traded to the Astros. Their team president recently came out and pretty much said the last thing on their off-season to do list is adding an ace. A trade just makes too much sense for both organizations.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 10:46 PM) I disagree. His value is determined in part by how desperate a team is to deal for an ace. When the A's dealt Russell was Shark's value at an all time high? So we don't know the situation at mid year. Maybe Benintendi, Turner and others cool off and the teams realized the need too quality pitching. We just don't know, but it's incorrect reasoning to think his value could not be higher I said there is no reason to think it will be higher, not that it couldn't. You're right, the fact is we don't know for sure. What we do know is Sale will definitely have less control and there is a strong possibility of there being more sellers and ultimately other SP alternatives than there are now given how bad this market is. You definitely don't have to move Sale right now, but you're taking a huge gamble that that unforeseen circumstances take place that result in a better package. I think that's a fool's bet, especially when you consider the unnecessary injury risk you're taking on and the opportunity cost of delaying the rebuild another year.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 10:32 PM) You guys see him more as a CF, SS or 2B? Defensive metrics heavily favors him at 2B although his athleticism plays better as a SS and can definitely be decent at CF too. I think he's a SS, but has the tools to be a good CF. I know the metrics liked his defense at 2B, but seems like it would be a waste of his athleticism.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 10:29 PM) Honestly, no thanks. I'll keep Sale if those are the packages. And do what exactly? What would your plan be? Tough talk is great until you end up with a far worse result. And I think some of you guys are crazy. That Nationals package would be the #4, #13, & #48 prospects on BA's mid-season top 100 list. The Astros package would include the #29 & #35 on their mid-season list and the #11 from their pre-season list. I'd need other pieces, including at least one more top 100 type from the Astros (Musgrove, Paulino, etc), but the foundation for a good trade is there. People here are in for a world of disappointment when Sale finally gets moved.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 10:21 PM) Yes, I wish more fans thought this way. We all want this rebuild to commence immediately and with a bang, but trading him next season is certainly an option. It's not now or never. It's now or anytime during the next year give or take. The problem is there's no reason to think his value will ever be higher than it right now. And by holding him, you take on the risk of injury and squandering your most valuable asset. You obviously don't give him away if the offers are ridiculously low for some strange reason, but you also can't be overly stubborn and refuse to off your initial asking price.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 10:08 PM) I think All-Star is an understatement...the numbers he put up last year are HOF type numbers. Obviously I get it's just a half season, but that kind of speed and power, along with that type of batting average is pretty unheard of. Say he comes down to earth and becomes a 12-18 homer guy...if he hits .315 with 40-50 SB for the next several years...that's Rickey Henderson-esque. I'm uneasy saying anyone has HOF potential, but he definitely has a super-star ceiling with a dynamic lead-off hitter floor, which is why I seriously doubt the Nationals would give him up.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 10:00 PM) Just looking at the Nats' lineup, it seems that they really need Turner. The Astros, in contrast, seem that they could cover Bergman's spot with other players. Regardless, there aren't many "can't miss" prospects (basically Turner, Swanson, Bregman and I guess Benintendi belongs in that category). If Hahn has to move off one of those, which I suspect he will, I really hope he is willing to take more prospects (elite ones) rather than taking more established major leaguers (Springer, Odor) so that this org can be properly rebuilt. There are still packages out there I would take without a true untouchable. The Nationals could build something around Giolito, Robles, & Lopez. The Astros could build something around Martes, Reed, & Tucker. Obviously I'd prefer getting a package headlined by a Bregman or Benintendi, and would push hard for it if I was Hahn, but the packages mentioned above would still be wins for us IMO. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one though.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 09:46 PM) Question for you...obviously TT had a hell of a half-season, but what do we think his ceiling really is? Is he really the kind of player he showed himself to be last year in 73 games? I don't think the HRs are legit, but the rest of his game appears to be. We're talking about a potential All-Star SS or CF and it could happen in the very near future. I would expect some regression/struggles next year, which is the only reason they may consider trading him, but personally I think his ceiling & floor are both too high to move.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 09:27 PM) Washington is also insane thinking they can get Cutch and Sale. All depends if they're willing to give up Turner, which I seriously doubt.

Green Room was fantastic, one of the best horror/thriller hybrids I've seen in a long time.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) Has the rebuild begun yet? All indications are that it starts this coming week.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) Add to relievers and not trade Robertson unless the deal us in our favor. Robertson looked good for the most part last year. I could see a core of Burdick, Jones, Jennings and Robertson minimum You're having a hard time accepting the rebuild aren't you?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 11:03 AM) I actually mind this one a bit more than the Garcia one because it would be nice to see how Saladino does in a full season at 2b. That said, we should have an opening at 3b that either of them could take, but that would require Hahn to make a correct move. Lawrie can be cut two weeks before opening day for 1/6 of his salary. So if we decide we don't need him, the worst case scenario is he costs us $600k. And honestly, if he shows he's 100% healthy in spring training, some team would probably take on his contract if in need of IF depth. With the uncertainty of Saladino's back, I get why Hahn made this move. It's tendering Avi that makes a lot less sense IMO.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 11:00 AM) You can'rt be looking too hard. Sox rumors...you got some to share?

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 10:38 AM) If Lawrie stays healthy and is hitting by the ASB his second half salary is going to make him a pretty big commodity at the deadline Gotta disagree here. Lawrie is likely a 1 to 2 WAR player at this point. I'm ok with bringing him back as a depth piece at the price he agreed too, but my expectations are pretty low that he'll be worth anything of signicance by the deadline.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) I don't have a prediction but will be interesting to me on the lesser profile guys if traded if Sox look for higher upside younger players or players closer to majors. A guy like Jennings unlikely to get you a top 100 prospect, do you get a payer more likely to contribute at majors or a dynamic arm you like but is only 18-19? I really think Jennings is used as a sweetener in a larger deal. Like you said, he's not going to get us a high end prospect on his own, but his addition to a deal could greatly improve that the final piece coming back.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 09:09 AM) I've always liked the match up of Sale and Frazier to the Dodgers for a package of prospects. The Astros are going to hang on to Bregman, and the Sox are going to settle for quantity over quality. Hope I'm wrong. After that, Melky and Robertson seem like good candidates to go, with Quintana, Abreu, and Eaton as longshots. I've gone back and forth on this, but I ultimately think one team caves for Sale and gives up an untouchable. And my best guess is it's the Astros with Bregman. They have a young talented core in the majors locked up for the next three to four years, creating a strong competitive window right now. They have an incredibly deep farm system and giving up Bregman allows them to keep most of their other high end pieces (Martes, Tucker, etc). Assuming they sign EE or Beltran, they can afford to give up Bregman without causing too much damage on the offensive side. They desperately need an ace if they want to set themselves up as a dangerous postseason threat. And last but not least, they've never won a World Series and Luhnow probably feels a sense of urgency to make something happen now. For all these reasons, I think the Astros end up giving up Bregman.

Sale & Jennings to the Astros for Bregman, Reed, Paulino, Fisher, & Moran. Robertson to the Red Sox for Swihart & Ball. Frazier to the Dodgers for Verdugo & Beurhler.

We're still a day away from the Winter Meetings and I'm dying for some baseball rumors. To overcome what will be the longest 24 hours ever, I thought we could take a crack at what moves Hahn will make during this year's meetings. Let me be clear, this isn't about who you want traded and who you would like coming back. This thread is simply meant to guess the most likely/realistic trades than Hahn will execute between now and December 8th.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 3, 2016 -> 07:23 AM) Indeed he would. But I don't think Rizzo would do that for Eaton or McCutchen. Frankly I don't think Rizzo would do it for Sale. Peddling Eaton over Abreu surprises me. They must just like Abreu or maybe they think they can really can get a 6 WAR return for Eaton. I'm good with a handful of high ceiling A ballers to replace a, say, 50-100 prospect. I look at Hahn's record and the best part of the Peavy trade were the A ballers. He also dumped Beckham for a legitimate A ball prospect (whom he subsequently squandered for a AAAA reliever). Or maybe they simply think Eaton is at peak value and Abreu's value can improve significantly with a strong first half next year. If Abreu's second half is any indication, his value has nowhere to go but up.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:35 PM) My point was that Donaldson wasn't good in the Majors until age 27. He simply struggled in the Minors before making a change compared to Avi, who's been struggling on the big stage in the Majors. Check out Edwin's numbers in 2009 and 2010. Everyone and their mother was calling him a bust. Until he made a change. Albeit he had some success in the Majors previously. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:36 PM) Avi most likely sucks, but when those guys were Avi's age, their MLB stats were far worse. It would take a miracle for him to get to their level with the bat. But the Sox are due for something working out. I get the age factor and even the lack of minor league seasoning, but like I said he's shown no progress. After 1,500 career plate appearances, I just don't see it happening. Anything is possible, but the odds are incredibly against Avi ever becoming an above average hitter at this point.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:15 PM) Donaldson, Justin Turner, Encarnacion Donaldson put up a .884 OPS in his second full season which was in Oakland to boot. Turner put up an .897 OPS in his full season with the Dodgers and was still below a 1,000 plate appearances entering that season. Both of these guys provide defensive utility. Encarnacion, a better positional comp, put up a .831 OPS in his second season. Honestly, none of these are good comparisons to Avi's situation.