Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 05:40 PM) Very true. I am extremely disappointed the Sox couldn't or wouldn't go to this level. I still think they have another move they will make, but if they don't, and Avi fails, they deserve all the grief they are going to get. Agree with all the above.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 01:14 PM) I agree it's about filling as many of the holes as apossible but most teams have holes and the Sox are no different. I disagree that Hahn ignored the OF hole and in fact Hahn has publically said numerous times this winter that he is trying to add to the OF. I also disagree that the OF hole was the " easiest " to upgrade, if it was so " easy " we wouldn't be having this discussion. Not true at all. The front office may still be high on Avi and don't want to force him into a platoon/bench just yet. It's very possible (especially if you saw PR machine in action at SoxFest) that the Sox were only willing to add an OF if that player was of the impact variety (3+ WAR type). They very well could passing on solid upgrades because they believe in Avi taking that next step this year.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) I'm willing to give Hahn until opening day to add another OF, but right now, the offseason grade should be incomplete because he's completely ignored one of the easiest and most obvious areas to improve this roster. QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) I agree--why some equate 'no transaction yet' with 'the team has completely ignored this need' is beyond me. There is still PLENTY of time to bring in another outfielder, and also plenty of options still available. This is how you should play/approach a buyer's market.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 12:32 PM) I'm with you Kevo and I've said a few times that I'm extatic about the what has been accomplished this winter and am looking forward to seeing a better brand of baseball on the field. Sure, the Sox could use an upgrade in the OF and I'm sure Hahn is still working on it but 3B, 2B and C were the biggest holes which have been filled. Anyone that seriously thought the Sox would be able to fill every hole (3B/2B/C/SS/RF/DH) this winter was delusional. It's not about filling every hole, it's about filling as many as you can while hedging your risk at the remaining trouble spots. Right now, Avi & LaRoche are uncontested starters at two of those spots. In a market flush with OFs, not at the very least adding a guy who could push these two for playing time is an absolute failure. I'm willing to give Hahn until opening day to add another OF, but right now, the offseason grade should be incomplete because he's completely ignored one of the easiest and most obvious areas to improve this roster.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) I actually don't mind this issue. By all accounts Rollins is an extremely good clubhouse guy. He's still a solid defender, etc, although his bat has clearly deteriorated and he is pretty old. Still, very little risk related to this move and some protection. Obviously not a move that puts you over the top, but could hedge some downside at the SS position. SSS, but I beleive Rollins put up a .700 OPS in the 2nd half last year. I'm more concerned about his defense than his bat to be honest.

QUOTE (daggins @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) I was advocating for this earlier. He either pushes Saldino to utility (where he belongs) or he IS the utility guy. Either way, he's probably better than Sanchez (who goes to Charlotte or is traded). I'm a fan of the Rollins pickup, but I'd much rather have a backup IF who can hit from the left side like Sanchez given the makeup of the infield. Regardless, having some depth is a good problem to have. Saladino can also play some OF, which would make him a true utility guy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) Joe Maddon hates when guys show up early. While I'll agree spring training is too long for position players, guys revamping their swing should probably come to camp a bit early.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 10:47 AM) Correct. No reason to show up early if you have no one pushing you for playing time.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) The legality of it doesn't make any difference to me in terms of whether it is moral or not. I would just advise that at a minimum, people try to avoid participating in illegal acts. But if you want to get into the morality of the issue, you're own argument is playing against you. You're saying using an arbitrary age is incorrect, but then saying kids in high school are not adults. You are essentially making the same argument, just substituting what grade level someone is in for what age they are. I agree with Joe on this. And I don't agree with Joe on much. People are different, depending on their background, upbringing, intelligence, life experience, etc. Yes, in general, it takes most people to get through adolescence before they are mature enough to engage in meaningful relationships, which, apparently, is what a 25 year old desires. However, females are generally more mature at similar ages than males. Secondly, everyone is a little bit different. There are plenty of 18-19 year olds who are more mature and responsible than 22 year olds or even 25 year olds. As for what I might be comfortable with as a parent, I can't say with any reasonable degree of certainty, because a) I don't have an 18 year old; and b) I don't have a daughter. However, I would hope that I respect my child enough to not make the same arbitrary decisions on their behalf that you are condemning here. If you really nailed me down on it though, yes, I think I would be suspicious of any 25 year old that was interested in an 18 year old unless the 18 year old was super hot. Otherwise, a 25 year old should be trying to bang 23 year olds. I'm not using grade level for anything. I'm using one of the biggest milestones in becoming an adult which is leaving the nest and living on your own. And sure, there are exceptions to every rule and perhaps some 18 year olds are mature enough to have adult relationships. But the same would apply to some 17 years, some 16 years old, etc. Where do you draw the line? Based on your moral standards, it's sounds like the only thing preventing a 16 year from being fair game is the legal issue. I don't really care what Joe does in this scenario. He's a big boy capable of making his own decisions. But the sound advice is NOT to get serious with a high school student and start introducing her to his friends & family. The vast majority of people will judge him over it and for what? A good time for a few weeks/months? The odds of this turning into a serious relationship are incredibly small. The stain on his reputation (rightly or wrongly) will last much longer. Let me ask you this shack, but would you date a high school chick and introduce her to your friends, family, coworkers, etc. at this stage in your life? If not, why are you giving Joe the green light?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 08:14 PM) Oh jesus, you guys are being dramatic. As long as it isn't illegal, do whatever you want. Life is too short to worry about what other people think. Just recognize what comes with the territory with your partner. Honest question shack, but if you had an 18 year old daughter in high school, would you want her dating a 25 year old? I guess I don't see how some arbitrary age requirement that it makes it legal also makes it morally acceptable. IMO, kids in high school are not adults. For an adult man to date or sleep with one is weird to me. I'm not going to call Joe some sort of monster or anything like it, but it definitely feels morally wrong to me and I wouldn't partake in such actions. And that's great to say "life is too short to worry what other people think", but people's perceptions can have long-term consequences. Unless this chick is his potential soul mate, being known as the 25 year old picking up high school chicks may have a negative impact in his social circle and for what gain? He wanted some feedback from the site and for the most part I think the responses have been pretty fair. And question for you Joe, but how did you meet this girl?

This thread is reminding me of a classic Always Sunny episode:

I get that Hahn has to make these comments, but they're always frustrating to hear. Especially the comment about LaRoche given that it was only few weeks ago at SoxFest when Robin & the front office said LaRoche would have to compete for a job. And that will be my biggest beef if no one is added. LaRoche & Avi will essentially enter spring training with no one pushing them for playing time. If that carries into the regular season, then it's a failure on behalf of the front office.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Feb 19, 2016 -> 02:07 AM) I'll keep this brief and not go in to much detail, but.....how many years younger than a guy is "too young" would you surmise? Or is it probably more likely based on a sliding scale. Long story short, I am talking to a girl younger than me and while I feel weird about it, no one I work with seems to care. It's my family/friends that I worry about. I'm almost afraid to introduce her to them for fear they will question her age. For anyone who doesn't know my age, she's 18. How old would I be if I was too old for her? I'll hang up and listen. If she's 18 and in high-school then it's really weird no matter how old your are. If she's in college or at least not living with her parents, I think it would be socially acceptable into your mid 20's. No matter what, some people will judge you for seeing or being with a girl who is barely an adult.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 18, 2016 -> 07:03 AM) Sox could have come up with that kind of money for Fowler. Clearly they didn't think he was worth giving up a pick for. Which is fine if they have a better and/or cheaper way of improving the OF. Having said that, we're quickly running out of time with spring training about to start. Let's hope Hahn has something up his sleeve.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 16, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Yeah, don't agree with Rock. His previous 2 albums were pretty slim. This album has a lot more filler but definitely seems transitional. Dude is 38, this is better than most outputs from 38 year olds. Still pretty intriguing ideas here. If he was a rock artist, we'd just be getting a bunch of nashville/folk inspired records. Did you just call Dark Twisted Fantasy "slim"? It's one of the best rap albums of all time and I would say it's arguably his best with only College Dropout in the mix.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Feb 17, 2016 -> 08:04 PM) If JR doesn't give him the money to sign someone or anyone who's fault is it? If JR didn't give Hahn enough budget to build a winner, then he should have gone in a different direction like taking advantage of the insane prices for pitchers and sold on Quintana and/or Sale. Not adding another OF means we clearly half-assed it once again which is simply unacceptable IMO.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 17, 2016 -> 07:34 PM) If you think the delta between Avi and Jackson in 2016 will be 3.7 WAR you're off your rocker. Austin Jackson is not putting this team over the top. There's a reason nobody has bothered signing him. I mis read his age earlier he's "only" 29 instead of 30 and you're going to be asking him to play a new position, RF -- FWIW he has a negative fWAR in RF in an ultra small sample size. Avi sucks but just like Viciedo the scenario is such that you pretty much have to give him another 300 or so PA to figure out if you can safely cut bait. A torn labrum is no joke and an obvious reason why he was unable to consistently generate bat speed or play any sort of defense last year. I'm not expecting him to turn into a 4 WAR player but would anyone be shocked if both him and Jackson finished around 1 fWAR this season? It really surprises me how many folks think the Austin Jackson is some surefire upgrade. I just don't think you've looked at his stats or watched him play since he left Detroit. He's clearly a player in decline that relies on his athletic ability (which is leaving him) for most of his value. FFS he had a .311 OBP and struck out 22% of the time last year -- and this was a bounceback for him! Jackson is a better player than Avi, nobody is going to dispute that. But there's more to it than just that. In Jackson's six seasons, he's only put up an fWAR below 2.3 once. In three partial/full seasons, Avi has never put up an fWAR above 0. No matter how you slice this, Jackson is incredibly likely to be an upgrade over Avi and very likely a two win one. In a division that's right there for the taking, you take the higher floor than the very remote chance of upside.

QUOTE (Baron @ Feb 17, 2016 -> 07:33 PM) I'm sure Dick Allen will mention it but his agent is Boras....I dont think he cares. But there simply isn't much of a market for Jackson. No one is going to give into Boras' outrageous demands as we literally enter spring training. Boras is obviously the best at what he does, but even he can't perform a miracle with Jackson this late in the game.

Honest question, but what can Jackson realistically expect if Fowler ends up with a 2/$25M deal? I'm thinking something like 2/$16M, which would be a pretty solid price IMO.

QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 17, 2016 -> 07:25 PM) Sources: The talks between the Orioles and Dexter Fowler are about a deal in the range of $12m-$13 million annually, for 2 or 3 years. Per Buster. Again, if Fowler signs for 2/25, the Sox front office deserves EVERYTHING they get. I'm ok if they can get Jackson for a song, but passing on Fowler at that price to go with Avi would be an epic fail.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 17, 2016 -> 07:13 PM) So much awesomeness in this post. Shocking to think Ventura and possibly Hahn will let their job fall on the shoulders of Avi and LaRoche. Honestly, that's the only reason I'm confident that Hahn will still add another OF. How many GMs that are serious about competing would actually enter the season with both Avi & LaRoche in their lineup with basically no competition? I know I wouldn't risk my job on that scenario and it seems like the majority of SoxTalk agrees. Hahn simply can't be that stupid.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 17, 2016 -> 06:46 PM) the assets are the opportunity cost. You're spending money and a roster spot and basically giving up on what could be an asset in the future -- Avi -- and for what? You're giving up flexibility that could be used on a much better upgrade later on. You guys that are pining for Jackson -- have you watched him play since he left Detroit? He's on the wrong side of 30 and put up a whopping 1.7 bWAR last year. Steamer projects him for 1.1 fWAR. He's no great shakes and you're asking him to play RF mostly, where he's played a total of 22 games in his career. The upgrade to go get is Fowler. That is a clear upgrade. Jackson is not worth the opportunity cost. Jackson put up a 2.3 fWAR last year, while Avi put up a -1.1. That's a 3.4 fWAR differential, which is beyond substantial. I also think the Safeco is a plus, as plenty of guys have turned around after leaving Seattle. As for Jackson's role on the team, he'd be our CF with Eaton moving to RF. That's a significantly better defensive alignment than Cabrera-Eaton-Garcia. And I get you're an Avi fanboy, but there is nothing to suggest Avi will get materially better at this point in time. 1,100 career PA's and he's been worth a combined -1.9 fWAR, with no signs of improvement. We're talking about a a guy who is a horrific defender & poor base runner that also has no plate discipline. The odds of him ever hitting enough to account for his other shortcomings is incredibly small. You certaintly don't risk a legit shot at a division title over it. And I'm not even advocating dumping Avi, I'd like to see him as LaRoche's platoon partner and overall insurance policy at DH & LF.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 17, 2016 -> 06:13 PM) I don't think it's the budget. I think they want to spend $9 million on the draft. Then they should go out and add Jackson. I'm not ready to pull my pitchfork out just yet, but there is absolutely no excuse for not adding another OF. It would be a sign that the front office is still high on Avi as an OF, which is an incredibly risky gamble to take given how winnable this division is this year. Hahn should be held accountable if Avi is given a starting role and he ends up being one of the primary reasons we miss the playoffs this year.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 10:08 PM) Soxtalk needs a rumor!!!! Please! Someone make a fake twitter account and say you saw someone at the airport coming to Chicago for a physical. Yes! I know fake twitter accounts are for scumbags! But do it for the sake of Soxtalk. The ends justify the means. I was literally going to post something like this. Has definitely been an ugly couple months for Soxtalk.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 01:38 PM) Sox payroll rank in MLB over the last 10 years: 2015: 15th 2014: 20th 2013: 8th 2012: 11th 2011: 5th 2010: 7th 2009: 12th 2008: 5th 2007: 5th 2006: 4th So that's only 1 year in the bottom half which was a rebuilding year, 6 times in the top 10 and 4 times in the top 5. Not bad for a team that struggles with attendance as much as the Sox do. I will be upset if the Sox don't spend money for another upgrade or two before Opening Day, but this idea that the Sox are cheap is exaggerated. This is a good post. The Sox certainly haven't been cheap since the Series, but it also shows they cut back significantly in recent years because of our semi retooling/rebuilding. Once you consider the $25M in additional national TV money that kicked in a few years back, I think it's fair to say there is still some money left in the cupboard. And I fully expect them to add one more 8 figure salary before spring training. Earlier this offseason I predicted a payroll of around $135M and if we add Fowler or Desmond that should be the case.