Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 12:43 PM) Don't care what Theo and the Cubs are doing. For the White Sox the surplus value of service time is inconsequential when the big picture is considered. The Sox paid Chris Sale, they'll pay Carlos Sanchez if he is worthy. So what's the big picture benefit of calling up Carlos Sanchez right now? You don't think the White Sox are capable of winning this year, so unless you think he'll develop faster at the major league level (which makes no sense) I can't see a benefit to waste his service time.

First off, I think it's way too early to talk about unloading. Second, the starting pitching can still be a strength for us the next two years. Sale, Peavy, Danks, & Quintana are all under team control. Santiago hopefully will get a chance in our rotation at some point this season. Plus there's a decent chance Erik Johnson will be ready next year. We have more than enough options to put together a strong rotation, which is always the hardest part of fielding a competitive team. Obviously the offense will be an issue, especially if Paulie leaves or retires. However, we should have some money to work with given that Konerko, Floyd, Thornton & Crain all could be gone. Honestly, I expect a lot of changes this coming offseason from an offensive standpoint. It's pretty clear that Hahn wante a more consistent offense given his moves for Keppinger & Gillaspie. Hopefully with some time he can accomplish that.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 12:39 PM) I am not a fan especially batting 3rd, and would rather the Sox be spending that money on something else. But his homers are useful. I just don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion he is much different from last year yet. If he puts the ball in play more often, I don't see how he possibly will hit less home runs over the course of the season. Read the article.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 12:31 PM) There doesn't appear to be a clear direction. I don't understand how they can't find a spot for Jordan Danks. Platoon him with Viciedo and put him in center to see if he can become anything useful. Jordan Danks? Are you serious?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) Recent reports of his FB velocity are mid-high 80's. That's a far cry from the mid-90's he was hitting last year. Same guy reported he had some very inconsistent delivery aspects as well. Not sure if he is figuring out his now-much-bigger body, or they are slowing him down on purpose, or what. Hopefully he's just having a dead arm period or something.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) I really don't care about that arb clock stuff. I just don't. Chris Sale got brought up a month after he signed, and we're all pretty happy with him. As far as Keppinger--he can play 3B, 2B, 1B, DH. And really, he shouldn't play every day anyway. Maybe 3 out of 4 days. I think if the team just tanks the next couple weeks and Sanchez continues to do good things, give him May in the big leagues while Beckham is gone. You realize that Carlos Sanchez is 20 years old right? That this is only his third season in America? We've already been incredibly aggressive with him, let him spend a few months in AAA and continue to develop without the pressures of being in the big leagues. It's not like he's a finished product. What does he or the Sox gain from a one month callup? As for Sale, it's not like we lost a year of abritration because of the initial callup. Regardless, not caring about a young player's service time is very short-sighted. You always want to turn your good young players into 6 1/2 years of service time if possible (unless they can help you win) rather than 5 1/2 to 6 years. There's a reason the Rays do this consistently. Theo & the Cubs are also doing the same thing. There is a lot of surplus value that can be attained if service time is managed correctly.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 11:39 AM) And I'm saying he will probably hit around .200 with around 40 homers and probably over 200 strikeouts. Just like last year. Probably a little worse than last year, but it's 50 AB. It's amazing how everyone comes to conclusions so quickly. Last year when everyone thought he was so valuable, from 4/8-4/17 he was 5-34 with 1 walk. So you think he can achieve those numbers with his new approach or you're just confident he'll ditch it in the near future? Again, I don't disagree with you about what Dunn is capable of, but he needs to go back to his old approach. The numbers in that article show why swinging early in counts is killing his game. This isn't just a slow start like last year, this is a flawed approach to hitting that is unlikely to ever work for Dunn.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 11:20 AM) Carlos Sanchez with a single. Depending on how things go the next couple weeks, I wouldn't mind if he played 2B for the Sox everyday until Beckham comes off the DL. Over Keppinger? Dude is 10/31 on the road trip. There's absolutely no reason to rush Sanchez and start his arbitration clock.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 09:57 AM) The worst thing that could happen is he sticks with this approach and gets benched and maybe eventually DFA'd. Is that so bad? Throwing away $14 million on nothing seems pretty bad if the alternative is an .800 OPS DH. Hell, if you straight up platooned him you'd probably get a little bit better than that. As painful as he is to watch, there is some still value if he reverts back to 2012 form, even if he's overpaid. Also, let's be honest, how many left-handed power hitters will be available this coming offseason? How do replace his bat in the lineup against RHP? That's going to require money and/or talent and we're already going to need to use assets to replace Konerko most likely. If we had some internal candidate knocking at the door, then maybe you could make an argument, but right now we're better off getting Dunn back to normal and hoping for an .800 OPS player.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 09:17 AM) I don't know how you can conclude anything on Dunn. I'm sure he's had stretches like this just about every year of his career. He's probably a .200 hitter with close to 40 homers and 200 k's. Not worth what they are paying him, but useful in today's game. I take it you didn't read the article, because there's been a fundamental change to his hitting style this year and the article shows that he has indeed changed his approach and is swinging significantly more early in counts. I agree with you he is probably an .800 OPS player now, if he were using his normal three true outcome approach. Until he goes back to that though, he will continue to kill our offense.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 12:31 AM) There are rumors he was advising KW/Hahn on the Zach Stewart/Edwin Jackson deal, that he was being felt out at the time for a possible promotion in title and salary with the White Sox...and his "insider" knowledge of the Jays' system was one of his selling points. I've never seen this written or mentioned anywhere. The only person who has ever said this is you. If you're going to accuse the White Sox of tampering you might as well support it with some source.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 15, 2013 -> 09:22 PM) At least Trayce Thompson isn't leading the Southern League. That's progress. If all four of those outfielders fail...then, just wow. Buddy Bell, so long, goodbye. Paddy's not exactly causing one to jump up and down with excitement, either, although he deserves more patience than Bell. Of course, the defense of Bell is that you can't easily turn raw athletes into baseball players...that the fault lies in organizational/drafting philosophy and not player development. It has to be a little bit of both...and too soon for Hahn to fall on any sword. What does any of this have to do with Paddy? Other than possibly Nestor Molina, most of the guys he has brought into the organization aren't even in the United States yet.

3 baserunners and no runs, way to make an impact White Sox.

QUOTE (Baron @ Apr 15, 2013 -> 07:24 PM) 2 on no out I knew a double play was coming as soon as I saw this post

It's pretty sad that Greene is called up and on his first day is already our best hitter.

We don't need to give up Dunn yet. We just need him to stop being an idiot and go back to being a three true outcome hitter. He honestly may not be better than an .800 OPS player going forward, but if you move him to 5th or 6th in the lineup that's good enough.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Apr 15, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) The only way that would ever happen is if the Blue Jays agree to pay just about every penny of his contract...and the Sox needed Buehrle...and the Sox were in the hunt... So, yeah, not gonna happen. And literally two of Sale, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago die in the next 3 1/2 months. Otherwise, we won't be looking for more left-handed starting pitchers.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 15, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) The scary thing is how few ABs Dunn (and the rest of the team) has against LHP so far this year. 2 ABs against LHP and he still has a .469 OPS!

And for the love of god Robin, please move Dunn down in the lineup. I get that these players have egos and dropping a guy can hurt his confidence, but Dunn has been a blackhole batting cleanup. We can't afford to wait weeks for him to get his s*** figured out. And if you do drop him down and he does well then you can move him right back up in the lineup. It's not like lineup changes are permanent. I'm not sure if Robin understands this based on how he handled the Morel situation last year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 15, 2013 -> 12:21 PM) Yeah, no one asked Dunn to stop hitting HR and walking while making more contact, but people regularly say they want more contact from him. Here's Ventura saying so: “You want him to be more aggressive. For a guy like him, there is something about hitting earlier in the count instead of taking pitches that are close or just off. We’re not talking about expanding the zone and swinging and missing, you’re talking about being a little more aggressive, going out of the zone and making contact.” Everyone seems to pretend that "Yeah, more contact from Dunn earlier in the count" would be great, when that's simply not what made him a tolerable player and a contributor to baseball teams. When people ask for more contact from Dunn, they have to live with the consequences, and that's less power and fewer walks. Less walks is one thing, if it turns into more home runs, but no walks is another story. I mean look at the BB rate...it's absolutely disgusting. We signed Dunn to be a three true outcome player because that's what he is and we had a need for OBP and left-handed power. Having Dunn swing earlier and not working counts is killing his game and our offense. Manto better fix this s*** soon or we're going to be in big f***ing trouble.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Apr 15, 2013 -> 11:13 AM) It isn't even so much that he has to go. As I've argued for a long time now; It's just that he cannot bat in the middle of the order. If we had a productive left handed hitter hitting clean up, it might be acceptable to have Dunn bat 6TH or 7TH. No one seems to offer any suggestions regarding who that might be, via trade or free agency, but the Sox better find someone quick. In lieu of that, all we can do is hope that out of desperation, he decides to try a different approach. What he's doing obviously doesn't work. There are probably no solutions this year and definitely not until the trade deadline at the earliest. For now we'll just have to hope Dunn can turn things around. Long-term we need to address this need. Not a lot of options within the system at the moment, so it will have to be via trade or free agency. Not sure who is available next offseason.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 15, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) Dunn is now doing exactly what people asked him to do. He's swinging earlier in the count, trying to make more contact, and taking fewer walks. Balta, no one asked Dunn to do what he's currently doing. His K % rate was 35.7% in 2011, 34.2% in 2012, and is 32.6% this year. His BB % was 15.1% in 2011, 16.2% in 2012, and is 4.3% this year. His HR % was 2.2% in 2011, 6.3% in 2012, ans is 4.3% this year. So he's striking out just about the same (slighty better), but instead walking and hitting home runs he's just making a lot more weak outs. Please tell me who asked for that? He's basically become a one true outcome player and unfortunately for us it's the one true outcome you don't actually want.

Alright Sale, you got to be the stopper today. Need to end this losing steak now. And offense, stop being a bunch of b****es and score some runs. Rios can't be expected to do everything.

f*** this team. Absolutely disgusting loss.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Apr 12, 2013 -> 08:24 PM) How many guys in the lineup are a product of the farm system tonight ? Viciedo.