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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:31 PM) That you think the last 2 drafts have been good is an opinion, not a fact. How's Fulmer looking, in your opinion? We're investing internationally? The Cubs, RedSox etc invest. I believe Hahn himself said that he's paying a whopping one big bonus. That's not an investment - that's doing the minimum. But you asked for facts: 4 players for 1 season of Shark A top 100, a CF who raked (possible NL rookie of year) and another prospect for 2 years of Frazier. Hopefully Frazier can hit .220 Two pitching prospects for sub .700 OPS Lawrie (despite having promising youths Sanchez and Saladino on the roster). Signed Keppinger, Latos, Rollins, and Bonificaio ($3 mill!!!!) all of whom had to be DFAd. Also signed Beckham for $2 million Gave De Aza and Thornton away for nothing; both had productive years left. Traded Rios for Leury Garcia; Rios helped the Royals win he Worlds Series. Signed Adam Laroche. Horrible, then put on a clownact, and Hahn's boss had to step in and fix the clubhouse. Signed Albers, and Duke, both of whom have been mediocre Robertson has done his job. Signed Melky Cabrera - okay this year, terrible last year; can't play defense Kept Ventura and Cooper around Traded for Shields 63, 73, and 76 wins under his leadership. 1 post-season in a decade from he and Williams. Facts Of course, before most of that, he got Eaton and Abreu. Then he decided that declining veterans were the better use of resources. Ser Caulfield's post. GreenSox, you do way too much hero worship.

Jimmy better finish Top 4 in MVP voting this year. The keys to the franchise are his.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 04:19 PM) Something also tells me that his recent complacent/lackadaisical style that was on full display last year is closer to what you are gonna get from Rose, as opposed to the cold blooded killer we saw in the first four years. Im disappointed in the bulls, but this is the beginning of ripping the band aid off Knowing GarPax, slow rip.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 03:56 PM) I don't really know how Rose destroyed his body for the team. He did a lot of sitting and was the opposite of a team first player. I don't disagree on Noah, but we don't know all of what happened with Noah and Butler. Derrick's 3rd and 4th seasons he battled through a bunch of injuries. Then the big one happened and he wasn't the same, but a lot of people thank that the piling up of turf toe and various strains led to that ACL. Hell, remember when he played through ulcers?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 03:50 PM) I don't think Butler has done any of that. I think it is a matter of the guys that were there before Jimmy don't respect Jimmy and are all relying on their historical old guard ways. I still say Thibs is interested in bringing Butler back so I don't think there was near the disconnect believed. Pau and Butler get along great and Butler busts his but. We could use more Butler's and less Rose's as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunate cause Rose was impacted from his injuries (more mentally than physically) and unfortunately it changed who he was. Wish him the best, but now was the time. This roster just didn't work with them both here and honestly, what do we expect. Butler does need to continue to work and hone on his leadership skills though (so he isn't innocent in everything). But Butler has done that with a ton of the younger players on this franchise. Eh, to me it feels like Butler forced out Noah and Derrick, who both destroyed their bodies for this team.

Terrible deal. Derrick may not be the warrior that would die on the court his first four years with the team, but those four years were special. He was Chicago's own carrying Jordan's legacy. Also, I'm just gonna go with Jimmy Butler is a f***ing diva. Say what you will about Derrick and his injuries, but he didn't force people off the team like it appears Jimmy Butler is doing with Rose, Noah and Thibs (though he wasn't alone on that one).

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) It is not completely out of his control. all of the variables you described are true. however, he can control the other offense to large degree. He can pitch deep into games to give his team a chance. He can keep the lesser pitchers in the bullpen. If he is the best pitcher in the game, he should be able to do these things. however, you are correct where he cannot control everything but he does have some control. This is why wins are part of the equation not the only variable. I feel like whenever Q goes 8 innings, he strikes out 10, gives up 1 or 2 runs and loses or takes the ND.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Apparently he is a pirate, because he leads the league in AR, (no W) I chuckled.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:44 AM) Well we know what KW's strategy was: this. And what we're seeing from Hahn since 2014 differs very little from the Williams approach. Now Hahn's first year differed significantly when he doubled the young core, but that came to an abrupt halt when he traded 4 prospects off of a mighty 73 win team to rent Samardjija. . Since 2014, Hahn has been relentless in his pursuit of veterans. Hahn's early work has now been subsumed in the subsequent 3 years of a GM clownshow. Both need to go. I mean so far his last two drafts have initially looked good and the Latin pipeline is growing.

QUOTE (brett05 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:46 AM) Over the past year Q has been the best pitcher in the AL (using WAR) But he doesn't get wins you're wrong.

Godspeed, SoxPride18

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 08:35 AM) Okay, so tell me. My hunch is he was defensive at the plate at a new level. Hence the Ks still being low but nothing landing for hits. Now he's got his confidence back. Granted, I had him at #9 in the FS Top 30 vote, so I'm biased. I still think he makes the bigs as a super sub a la Saladino but faster.

I legitimately have no idea what is supposed to go on I'm this thread anymore. It's a complete Trainwreck. Which LeBron acted in and Michael Jordan starred in Space Jam. Much better than Kazaam for Shaq or that film Durant was in.

My dad was trying to tell me LeBron easily ranks under Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird...Then he pulled out Russell, West and Baylor...Then Kobe and played the "I saw them play!" card. I also done a s*** ton of NBA history research. I still say only MJ and aKareem have concrete spots above him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:38 PM) FutureSox @FutureSox Eddy Alvarez by month: April: .145/.241/.174, 9:16 BB:K May: .227/.276/.268, 7:17 BB:K June: .348/.464/.478, 10:6 BB:K He was the one guy you figured could turn it around eventually. He has a stellar eye and was making contact, just not getting on base.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 12:29 AM) Except the other guy does do something else quite well. He develops Latin America and he has a farm system chock full of prospects operating on a budget 75% of what the White Sox have, with the lowest or second lowest attendance in the AL each and every season. And all I'm doing is counter-arguing Dick Allen's assertion that Robin Ventura shouldn't be fired because he might be the next Torre/LaRussa/Leyland/Bobby Cox. So, following that string logically, that means Rick Hahn isn't providing him the talent to realize his potential. And, if Rick Hahn can do only ONE thing well, something that many other GM's can also do...where's our competitive niche or advantage over the rest of baseball? What else is Rick Hahn effective at or one of the Top 10 GM's in the game at doing? The strength of our organization used to be developing left-handed pitching (Buehrle/Danks/Sale/Q/Rodon/Santiago), but many are down on Don Cooper right now. That leaves only one aspect remaining, keeping players healthy, strength&conditioning/Herm Schneider. The entire premise of this thread was that Rick Hahn's contract negotiating skills weren't great cause the Indians have good contracts.

This thread is a dumpster fire.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 10:46 PM) Most of you guys still have Adolfo on your top 10 lists, which blows my mind. He fell off mine due to injury, but potential is still insane.

Godspeed.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 06:27 PM) Why would he have a higher ceiling than Hawkins, though? Both are not close to five tool players. Because Micker...has potential as a 5 tool. The only tool people think wouldn't pan out is speed.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:19 PM) There was a Rick Hahn led conference call with season ticket holders and when asked about J2, Hahn said that the team is signing 9 players and that includes one 'big expenditure'. I've been scouring the Internet to did out who they are. There is indeed a big one on the horizon. Don't know who it is, but know it's a big one. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 06:14 PM) The last big signing, Adolfo...has kind of faded away from view. We don't even hear about him being considered for the Top 10 list anymore. Yes, it's a "lottery ticket" mechanism, and you hope that maybe 1 out of 20/25 turn into MLB All-Stars. Not sure if the ROI is there, not for small and middle market teams (unless their scouting is just top notch and their miss rate is lower). That would be due to injuries more than anything else. If healthy, he'd have the highest ceiling in the system outside of Hansen.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:44 PM) God damn Kershaw is one of the best pitchers of all time. I know why he lost the Cy Young last year, but should have been his.

Yeah Caulfield, I appreciate the numbers, but this thread is dumb. There can be multiple great negotiators in the league.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 03:04 PM) I see.. I was going to take you to task for trying to spell.. "Sophomore" glad I waited for your response.. LOL. I appreciate it

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) what's a "softmore" The later part of a Now&Later. Otherwise, I f***ing hate autocorrect.