Eminor3rd

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 07:53 AM) you seriously have named them multiple times in this thread. the pool of Sanchez/Davidson/Saladino/Anderson/Johnson were all thought to be possible replacements or trade chips for replacements. You are just arguing anymore to see yourself argue, with hindsight points that change from sentence to sentence. Oh right, forgot Saladino too.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 01:55 PM) The Sox had a decent record in 2012, and were "in the hunt" for the duration. Bottom line, they went home in October. At the risk of being labeled a whiner and moaner, that doesn't qualify as a successful season, in my book The same could be said for every of the past ten seasons with exception of 2008 The decision makers that have compiled this dubious 10 yr record of achievement, have brought us to a point of near bottom attendance and TV viewing numbers. I'm not trying to be bitter, or argumentative..but where's the logic in assuming that this brain trust is capable of "gradual system wide improvement" Ultimately leading to an elite, big market, perennial playoff contender? I'm not saying the Sox have been successful, I'm saying that the suggestion that the reaction to their failure should be to tear down and rebuild is ill-advised. I'm also pointing out that the Sox have made progress toward the goal of perennial threat in each of the last three seasons, even if that progress has been slower and more methodical than we would all like. Sometimes a good plan can yield undesirable results. In professional sports (ESPECIALLY baseball), that happens more often than not. Only one team in 30 actually succeeds at winning the World Series. That doesn't mean that only 1 team in 30 did a good job; that 29 front offices should be fired. It's simply the nature of competition. When you go head to head, only one winner can emerge. This front office has not tasted success, but analysis suggests that it's still moving in the direction of success. It makes sense to stay on that course until the direction changes.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 07:50 AM) Who were their future 2B and 3B at that time? Some combination of Micah Johnson, Carlos Sanchez, Matt Davidson, Trey Michalczewski, and Leury Garcia.

The Sox did not "give up on" Marcus Semien. They wanted Samardzija and they traded from depth. It costs talent to get talent.

Another s*** night to be a white sox fan.

That was fun. Stanton/Frazier final was best case scenario.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) A lot of fans have been telling the Sox to do this, i.e. pick a lane for years. The Sox though have different ideas. "Contend while rebuild" and clap trap like that. I personally don't care what they do rip it up or go for it but if your are going to do either of them you need competent people making the decisions, signing the free agents and making the trades. Many (most?) Sox fans have lost faith that Kenny Hahn are capable of pulling it off. Plus unless the Sox are willing to significantly raise the payroll they aren't going to get the top shelf free agents when they hit the market. The organization is between the rock and a hard place with no real or easy way out. Mark The problem with this is that the game simply doesn't work this way anymore. The traditional idea of a "contention window" is obsolete, for two primary reasons: 1. Free agency is no longer a reliable way to build a winner. Players are peaking earlier, declining quicker, and being signed to pre-arbitration extensions that gobble up their prime years. The "all in" strategy doesn't work when you can't buy enough talent with your money. 2. The best team is no more likely to win the playoffs than any other playoff team. The massive cost required to earn the talent required for an extra few wins above the rest of the field is wasted in October. The best way to win a WS is to maximize the number of chances you can take, not to optimize any particular chance. Therefore, the most sensible goal is to be "in the hunt" every single year. A successful plan to this end is one that sees the team in a state of constant but gradual system-wide improvement. And while our ML teams' records have been disappointing the past couple years, it's tough to argue that we haven't seen "gradual system-wide improvement" in each of those years. The answer is not to gut the system, nor is it to tear down and restock. The answer is to stay the course.

QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 06:38 AM) Serious question, what happened on his caught stealing yesterday? AJ has never one time thrown out a runner by 30 feet like he threw out Anderson yesterday. Did he slip? Horrific jump? I didn't see the replay, just saw that he was so far from second when the 2B/SS (I forget which one) caught the ball that he had the time to turn around and try and get back to first. It was a really terrible jump, and he looked like he gave up on running hard a bit too early. He probably still would have been out if he went hard all the way, but it at least would have looked like a normal CS.

Quintana is a much bigger snub than Eaton. Especially considering the other pitchers that got in.

Phew

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Core Chris Sale - pre arb Jose Quintana - pre arb Addison Reed - pre arb Veterans worth their contract and worth something via trade Jake Peavy Alexei Ramirez Prospects in the top ~200 range Erik Johnson Courtney Hawkins Carlos Sanchez Dayan Viciedo was on quite a few All-Rookie team lists and was a productive player in 2012. I also guess that Trayce Thompson, Marcus Semien, Josh Phegley, Chris Bassitt, Micah Johnson, etc., weren't in the organization at the time. Hector Santiago has mysteriously disappeared as an asset to go along with Addison Reed. Tyler Flowers statistically is better than our current catching combo when defense is factored in, and for a cheaper price. Pitch framing/pitch calling strategies have slipped with Navarro, not to mention throwing out opposing baserunners. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- White Sox roster now Core Chris Sale - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Quintana - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Abreu underperforming his career WAR from 2014/15 by 125-150 points, should be DH, in ideal world Adam Eaton - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Carlos Rodon is there a single poster here who would have picked anyone else with the 3rd pick? and still not close to All-Star status, work in progress Tim Anderson would feel a lot better if Hahn had anything to do with targeting him Avisail Garcia Matt Davidson Nate Jones Veterans worth their contract and worth something in a trade Todd Frazier (I would hope he's STILL worth the equivalent of Thompson/Montas +) Brett Lawrie Melky Cabrera James Shields (SURE!!! Get on the phone right now and see if someone will assume that $27 million) Prospects in the top ~200 range Zack Collins Carson Fulmer Spencer Adams (has gone from near the Top 100 to closer to 150-200) Zack Burdi Alec Hansen at some point, results/ability is trumped by performance....in 2012, this was the equivalent of Chris Beck Trey Michalczewski (really?) I can't believe I glossed over the part where you said Abreu was underperforming his previous WAR by 125-150 points, lmao.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) Ok, I don't do this often. DA and Caulfield, I recommend you guys both download League of Legends and fight 1 v 1.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Prospects in the top ~200 range Zack Collins Carson Fulmer Spencer Adams (has gone from near the Top 100 to closer to 150-200) Zack Burdi Alec Hansen at some point, results/ability is trumped by performance....in 2012, this was the equivalent of Chris Beck Trey Michalczewski (really?) So Alec Hansen is a bust already? Lol

Time for Rodon to become good.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) This is hysterical. The guy who twice said he was leaving this site until KW and/or Ventura got fired, is now so upset the Sox have won 10 of 14 and are right back in the playoff hunt, he can't leave Rick Hahn alone. Now the organization was in good shape when Hahn became the GM. When it was the anti KW narrative, something totally different. Always need a scapegoat.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 11:10 AM) True. But they are "losing" trade value on guys like Robertson and maybe Melky if they are sellers and keep them for 2017. If we were out of it we could dangle Robertson for sure to a contender--almost all contenders need as many back-end arms as possible and overpay for them at the deadline. You're not worried about burning trade value if you're trying to compete. Balta's point is a good one -- unless we're in a position to make a serious run, we should probably try to shore up in the offseason and take another shot. If 2016 and 2017 both fail, I can definitely see a retool/rebuild in 2018.

The most meaningful get from that list is Lucroy. I don't how how teams feel about adding catchers midseason, though. Also, Fulmer is in any deal for Lucroy.

Super nice start for Anderson. I don't mean to be a downer, but he is going to HAVE to learn to take a walk. He's currently at a 0.9% walk rate against a 30.8% K rate, and those numbers are both very bad. Right now he's doing enough damage on contact that it works, but that's not going to last. Couple reasons: 1. The BABIP is going to fall. He's currently sitting at a robust .418. Even a guy with his wheels that hits the ball hard will rarely be able to sustain .350 or so. Pull 60 points off that and he's suddenly a .260-270 hitter with a .280 OBP. Also, he's currently slugging .519. I believe he's got pop, but even a .450 SLG would be a great outcome for his profile. 2. We've seen it a million times -- pitchers adjust to guys in year two, and for free swingers that usually means throwing a bunch more pitches out of the strikezone. Right now, Anderson does NOT look like a guy that does well with junk pitches (a la Vlad or even Abreu when he's on). He's swinging at bad pitches at an Avisal-ian rate of 44.3% (league average is 30.3%), but only making contact with those pitches 57.3% of the time (league average is 62.5%). I'm not ripping the guy -- I know he's a rookie with a ton of development ahead of him. But we should remember that that development IS still ahead, and we should steel ourselves for some bumps in the road. This current version of Tim Anderson is not the one that will go on to have a long, star-level career.

Benetti has been a touch corny, even for me, but I think he ABSOLUTELY makes Stone better. I like the move to Benetti. I respect what Hawk was, and enjoyed most of his career, but it's just time for it to be over. That's okay, it happens to everyone.

Oh good, this thread again.

EAT THE HAT

Yeah, this has been a disaster. Makes my excited catcher SoxNet article from the winter look dumb.

Literally every pitcher in this game has pitched like garbage. The bad ones and the good ones. Are you guys seriously still trying to blame this loss on the manager? Like I get being mad and frustrated, but not blaming the players for playing like s*** is baffling. Robin put righties against righties and lefties against lefties. Wtf else do you want him to do? It's the AL. Players have to execute.

Ok that was a f***ing strike

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) You wouldn't prefer to have Jennings, who hardly broke a sweat, stay in the game? Not against the right-handed Pedroia and Bogaerts.