thxfrthmmrs

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:24 PM) It's really this simple to me. Sale is as good as Kershaw and Grienke in my opinion. So I would expect him to post similar numbers to those guys if he pitched in the NL. Put Sale on the Dodgers today and those are the numbers I would expect from him. Do you disagree? Yes, on the grounds that Sale isn't Kershaw. Everyone who isn't a Sox fan will tell you the same. Sale is better than Greinke historically. Greinke is having an extremely lucky season. Put Sale's number at slightly better than Zack's number last year, 2.30 -2.40 ERA, sure. That would make it half a run better than Chris's career ERA.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:07 PM) Bottom line, NL = NBA Eastern Conference, AL = NBA Western Conference. I believe Sale would absolutely dominate in the NL and I have yet to see factual evidence provided in this thread that would change my mind. Sure you can call the statistics that I cited as insignificant due to sample size but what statistics do you have that would prove this small sample size should be completely disregarded? You can believe whatever you want, but you will have a hard time convincing many other people. You also haven't put out any strong arguments on why Sale would be 1 run better than he currently is. There are plenty of points listed out for you in this thread already, but you chose to ignore them, Someone already mentioned that batters will make adjustments to him as they face him more, I also mentioned that pitchers won't do that much better (maybe for a short stretch, but certainly not a fully season or across seasons) even if they switched leagues. Many times, they do slightly better or they could even do worst. See Shields and Scherzer as the latest example.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 09:52 PM) see that's the thing it's not just the DH factor. yes, that's part of it but as a league the NL has FAR worse hitters (and pitchers) than the AL. See edit in my earlier comment.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 09:28 PM) Out of Grienke's 7.5 seasons pitching in the AL, he only had one season in which his ERA was lower than Sale's CAREER ERA. Yet he has an ERA of 1.61 and WHIP of 0.85 pitching in the NL this season. I fail to understand how Sale with a sub-2 ERA while pitching in the NL is far fetched. Sale has a CAREER ERA of 2.85 and his highest over a full season is 3.07. How is that inconsistent? Sure he has some bad starts here and there but everyone does. I would venture to say he'd have far less of those bad starts pitching in the NL. That's comparing apples to oranges, there are so many factors that played in Greinke's season so far, 1 being this is his contract year, the other being that he's been extremely lucky. He currently has the 2nd lowest BABIP in the league at .234, for comparisons sake his career BABIP is .300. Sale is at .290 career wise FYI. If you were wondering why Greinke became so good this year, look no further. You are also conveniently leaving out the thousands of other occasions where pitchers switched leagues but didn't see his ERA dropped significantly. Two reason examples, James Shield actually had his ERA risen even though he now pitches in a pitchers heaven. Max Scherzer is putting up identical ERA and FIP as he did two years ago when he pitched in the hitter friendly Comerica. Sale will get better in the NL, but he won't shave 1 full run off his ERA. Just because he's facing a pitcher instead of a DH or that you are trying to extrapolate a 91 inning career sample size is not a convincing argument.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 09:34 AM) Kershaw has done it in each of the prior two seasons and has a good chance of doing it again this season. In my opinion, Sale is just as good as Kershaw so I certainly can assume he'd replicate Kershaws numbers if he pitched in the NL. Sale's career statistics against the NL even if they only amount to ~half a seasons worth further support this argument. At their best, Sale and Kershaw are 1A and 1B, but Sale goes through the motion and gets hit hard every now and then. Kershaw is the perfect model for consistency and rarely gets himself a bad start. So even if Sale moves to NL, he will still run into those bad starts. He will be better than a 3.20 ERA, but won't be Kershaw good. And for that reason I will agree with LittleHurt, assuming a sub 2.00 ERA is a bit far-fetched.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 01:16 PM) Repeat of last night...................I am all for trading Q this winter, team has not won jack with him. Team is now going through the motions living for the 15th and 30th. He's fine as a number 3 starter. But if you are expecting him to be a number 2 on your team, then your rotation isn't a playoff caliber one.

Hard to believe that Leury is only 24, actually a few months younger than Micah.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 25, 2015 -> 01:04 PM) Charlotte- Johnson Birmingham- TBA Winston Salem- Dykstra Kannapolis- Martinez Great Falls- Banks AZL- TBA DSL is off today. http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?s...mp;ymd=20150825 DSL season is over. Sox didn't make playoffs. i'm guessing they're gonna keep Micah down in AZL until Sept 1st and recall him back up here.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 23, 2015 -> 08:22 PM) Rollins putting on an amazing performance. Cena no selling a f***ing frog splash are you serious Holy s*** didn't see that finish coming at all. Rollins carried that match.

Rollins' run ends tonight, Super Cena ain't losing this one.

The Kanny roster this year had been largely uninspiring, but I think that's going to change next year. As it looks like now, Zangari, Zavala, Adolfo, Cruz, Rodriguez and Lassiter on the hitting side, and Solorzano, Comito, Stephens and Erwin on the pitching side should be on that team.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Aug 23, 2015 -> 07:13 PM) So a lack of doubles means Saladino does not have good speed on the base paths? Ive seen Saladino running the base paths and he does have good speed. His lack of doubles comes from his bat, not his lack of speed. Also, Saladino was 25/27 in steals for Charlotte this year so yeah, he does in fact have good speed. Not Micah Johnson speed but speed nonetheless. Thank you. And considering he's playing 3B right now, he's got very good speed for the position.

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Aug 23, 2015 -> 04:29 PM) The problem is if you drop Danks or LaRoche etc you owe them their money and get nothing for them. Yep, if they are under big league contract they are part of your 40 man

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 23, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) The argument is pretty simple. The White Sox have the weakest lineup in the big leagues. They will not win unless they can upgrade their lineup. The White Sox have excess pitching. The White Sox have spent their last 2 first round draft picks on pitcher in addition to trading for pitchers (Montas) and picked up other pitchers in trades. Trading from our strength to partially fill our weakness makes general sense. Finding an actual match is obviously a challenge, but "A great rotation and a terrible lineup" leads to a season like the one we're watching right now. We also had the one of the worst defense in the league. If we could get a full season of good defense at 3B, full season of Sanchez at 2B, and get a defensive RF who could also bring a bat, yes I am talking about J Hey or J Up, our defense would immensely improve. Gillaspie, Micah, and Avi were some of the worst fielders at their position this year. Great defense would further help our pitching, that plus assuming Rodon would take a big leap in his second year, we might suddenly be a favorite to a WC spot without comprising our pitching strength.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 23, 2015 -> 01:02 PM) I think the key comparison between Saladino and all the other names you mentioned is that Saladino doesn't seem to have a bat that can carry himself at 3b. Sub-.700 OPS when he was at AA over several seasons, .746 career OPS in the minors, .704 this year before getting called up from Charlotte. If you just assume that guys will take a step down offensively in the big leagues, then you might hope for him to be a .675 OPS or maybe slightly better guy in the big leagues. Even if he's a solid defender and a solid baserunner, that's a below average bat at that position and very much so. On the other hand, that's an average to above average bat at SS. If Saladino is going to be looked at as a 3b for the next couple years, we need to find some "very much above average bats" somewhere else. Jose Abreu alone isn't enough to offset having this many weak, defense-first players in the lineup - basically right now the only 2 above average offensive players we have in our lineup out of 9 are Abreu and Eaton. We simply aren't going to win with 1 average offensive player, 2 above average offensive layers, and 6 below average offensive players in our lineup. We need offense somewhere. If there is an upgrade at 3B who could bring a better bat and also above average D at the position, then I am all for it. But in the mean time, there's no one who fit the criteria in free agency. Chris Davis is exactly the type of player we need to avoid, and everyone else aren't good enough to be long term solutions. Pitching is our strength currently, but we're losing Shark this year and Danks is done after next season. We aren't in a position to trade Q for a position player by any means. And I am not sure what kind of return you could get for just Micah and/or Montas. All in all, Saladino isn't a bad fall back option, plus he's making league minimum, so that should give us more flexibility to go after upgrades in other positions.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 23, 2015 -> 11:35 AM) I don't know the orgs well enough to say. But overpaying for a career year will hurt the team. if you have to suck it up with Saladino, so be it. At least the D is there. I'd like to see Sanchez get work at short in September. See if Micah has improved his D...his bat should really work at 2nd. Go for improvements in the OF, DH and C instead. The Sox have 5 or so areas in which they could improve; there have to be young players somewhere. Someone mentioned a signing of Zobrist - that's an idea. Won't cost players. On some level, Saladino could be the "good, young 3B" you want us to trade for, one that we won't have to trade Q for. As you mentioned, at least the D is there, and the bat has some potential, and we know he's got good speed on the base paths. Personally, I'd like to give him at least half a season more at 3B before moving him to a utility role. The other issue is there is virtually no other "good, young 3B" available for trade who isn't an all star caliber player. Moustakas, Duffy, Bryant, and Seager fit the criteria, but those teams aren't looking to trade them.

Here's the thing, I think Saladino can handle playing SS or 3B alright defensively, but I would give him every chance to stay at 3rd unless we could acquire an all star caliber 3B in the offseason. We have quite a few options at SS going into next season, there' no reason to move the only guy in the org with potential to be a regular and making the league minimum right now unless, again you're acquiring a significant upgrade. You could save the $10 mil by declining the option to Alexei, that $10 mil won't necessary get you a better player at 3B than Tyler in today's market.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 06:14 AM) I think it is probably a little too early for that. Most top-100 prospect lists really do not include guys playing in the DSL for consideration. A recent example would be Rafael Devers of the Red Sox. I think he was still in DSL last year and just made the top 100 this year. It's not likely, but I think he will get some consideration, considering the position he plays and the likelihood of him stick there, and his floor is relatively high given his ability to hit for average.

Love Beltre and Perez. If Perez could keep this up, he could make some fringe top 100 list, he's already getting some love from around the league. And my god Ricky Mota has been awful thus far. Striking out 30% of the time for a player with .030 ISO is unheard of even for a pitcher. And errors don't mean much at that level but kid's already have 30 errors in 55 games. He definitely has work cut out for him the next few years.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 15, 2015 -> 09:19 PM) If you guys didn't see, LeBron is putting 1100 Akron kids through college at the University of Akron. The tuition cost would be roughly $41.3M. It's not out of pocket supposedly (he has an agreement with the school) but DAMN if that isn't amazing thing by him. I'll always sports-hate him, but holy s*** he really is an amazing person. Generous, sure. Amazing? I don't buy it. Generosity does not erase all the dickish crap he's done in the past. Before J4L jumps me, I don't consider guys like Jordan or Kobe amazing either.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Aug 16, 2015 -> 05:17 PM) James shields still got a deal before opening day. I suspect Jeff s will do just fine Except Shields had a 3.20 ERA last season and a much better track record than Shark. He was also the 2nd3/rd best pitcher in the class. 2016 is loaded with free agent pitchers.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 16, 2015 -> 04:03 PM) Thome's numbers were comparable...and considering the aging/expected regression, better than his Philly numbers AJ Carlos Quentin (although not much of a track record) Eaton, compared to his DBacks numbers Jose Valentin...maybe offensively Pods compared to his second year with Milwaukee Iguchi, Ramirez and Abreu all outperformed initial projections Gillaspie last year, compared to SF Giants numbers Eaton had like half a season under his belt before the trade, I'd put him in the same category as TCQ. FWIW he was favorite to win NL ROY at one point Valentin is a pretty good one, although like you said his defense was awful Pods had like 2 WAR's over 3 season worth of games with us, I wouldn't say he did better with us. Gillaspie by all means had one fluky first half, and came back down to earth after. As for the foreign players, credit goes to scouts and the GM's for taking a chance on them. They were all pretty established players overseas, but for right or wrong reasons, the projections always assume that player will have a tough time adjusting from overseas baseball to MLB. At the end of the day, we have far more recent success taking on reclamation project pitchers and turning them into better players than we did with position players, but then again, pitchers are probably the easier fix.

If his pitch count wasn't so high, he would have a good shot of getting 20 today.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 16, 2015 -> 11:17 AM) They actually used to be really good at bringing in retreads...dunno about career norms, but guys that could come in and rebuild their career a bit. Ellis Burks comes to mind. Albert Belle put up a monster year here, although he was pretty amazing for much of his career. They have more success with pitchers. It's just sad that the hitters you're bring up are from the 90's.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 16, 2015 -> 11:13 AM) Geo Soto? You could say the 2015 Geo Soto has been better than the 2011-14 Geo Soto