The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Dec 3, 2012 -> 12:33 PM) The biggest problem with trying to talk baseball these days is the way people use, you know, actual statistics to evaluate players. That's not even an "advanced" stat. Adapt. No, the problem is the way that people try to boil everything down to one or two special stats to try to evaluate an offensive player or a pitcher's overall performance level. Baseball is a beautifully complex game and the constant overuse of certain statistics just dumbs it down. And "adapt" why? Maybe I'll just starting listening to horses*** music and watching American Idol all day since that's adapting too. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 3, 2012 -> 12:17 PM) On base plus slugging percentage. It shows that a.) gets on base at a decent clip b.) he hits for power at a decent clip c.) he does one really well or both equally well Just because you don't or choose not to understand something does not take away the validity of the number itself. OPS is the simplest of the combination type stats where people take several different stats and try to make them all into one thing. This isn't special. It's not that difficult to look at the OBP number and the SLG number individually while taking into account the overall skillset of the player. Both Dunn and Napoli walk. Great. Both are also slow DP candidates whose walks can turn into double plays and force plays. Their walks only mean something when/if someone drives them in or if they drive in a run with a walk. To a lesser extent, working a count and taxing the pitcher counts too. Dunn has a career .370 OBP while Napoli's is .356. Dunn is better there but I'd much rather have both guys get on a .330 clip if it meant that good speed and baserunning skills came with it. The power is the only area where both players are special, since neither can defend well enough anywhere. Dunn has a career .499 SLG while Napoli has a career .507 SLG. If you look at SLG then Napoli is a better player, but he's actually not, since Dunn however hits the ball over the fence a lot while Napoliu doubles. This isn't rocket surgery. Hitting the ball over the wall is the greatest outcome any hitter can ever have in any at bat. Dunn's power makes more runs & he's a more dangerous hitter overall. There's no comparison between the two if you look at the players individually, but OPS says they're pretty close. This is why I hate these stats. They dumb down the game and really aren't worth the arguments. The worst is when people try to make comparisons between low power speedsters who get on a decent clip but steal bags with mashing K machines and in doing so completely ignore an entire element of an offense. So yeah, f*** OPS.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2012 -> 12:05 PM) Mike Napoli has a lifetime .863 OPS over a 7 year career, but don't let the facts get in your way. The biggest problem with trying to talk baseball these days is the way people use OPS they way you do. WTF is OPS? f*** OPS, give me HRs. Naopli is a low batting average right hander who takes a walks and doesn't have Dunn's power. He's a poor man's Dunn and he doesn't defend well enough anywhere to justify his contract.

Count me in the "no Youkilis" group, if that exists. He won't be worth the money he'll get & I don't think we're close enough to title contention to try to fit his salary into the lineup. Find a cheaper stopgap and live with it for a year or two while you find a third baseman elsewhere. I also don't want him for 3-4 years and this market might get him that.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2012 -> 11:57 AM) If Adam Dunn were a free agent right now, I doubt he would get the contract Napoli is getting. 3 years, $39M is a good deal for Dunn if he was a FA right now. Hamilton is a better lefty power bat, but who else is out there? There's not much, and the deal would be warranted given Dunn's track record. Napoli OTOH has what kind of track record? The Angels dumped him, the Jays dumped him, he had one great year in Texas hitting in a terrific lineup in a major hitters park, and that's it. He's mediocre and the contract is s***. The Red Sox suck and they are stupid too. Stupid Red Sox. It's almost like they never lost Theo.

Salty sucks balls. Anything involving a backup catcher for Floyd is giving him away and that's stupid, especially since he's one of our best possible trade chips. Floyd can at least bring back a high ceiling A+ arm and a longshot position prospect with some potential.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2012 -> 10:54 AM) Dunn had a comeback year and put up an .800 OPS and gets $15 million a year. Napoli had a regression and put up an .812 OPS and gets $13 million a year. Seems to me Napoli is still the better deal. Really? Come on. Dunn is 2 years older and has 260 more career HR. Napoli had one excellent year his whole career, with everything else being far less than anyone should ever demand from a power position. As a catcher that's one thing, but obviously the Red Sox don't think he can catch much, and the Rangers probably aren't too fond of him there either, and obviously the Angels thought he sucked back there. The Napoli contract is a horrible deal. Dunn OTOH, for 2 years and as a lefty, is a much better contract by far. Dunn doesn't have a lot of value, but if the Sox eat a couple million per/take back a contract, and if they ask for nothing significant in return in prospects, that's a good deal for a team looking for big short-term power without having to give up real assets or forfeit a pick.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 3, 2012 -> 10:35 AM) Catchers are getting paid. I expect AJ to get a 1 or 2 year deal for around $10MM per now. A Flowers/Salty combo wouldn't be terrible. Except they're paying him to be a 1B. $13M per for a first baseman who sucks? Maybe someone will take Dunn now because teams this offseason are acting just stupid.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 11:32 AM) I think the generally the consensus about the Vazquez to Atlanta deal was very positive. Most could not wait to get rid of Javy and in return the Sox nabbed Tyler Flowers who had just come off of like 12 HR's in the AFL. Lillibridge was said to be about what he was, and the upside was seen as fairly high for Gilmore and Santos Rodriquez at the time. You are correct also.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 10:59 AM) Ozzie Guillen to the Marlins You sir are absolutely correct. If I had a cookie I'd give you one. Actually, since you're a mod now, how about adding a cookie icon in the smiley box to the left of my screen here? That way when I agree with other posters I can click on the cookie icon and give them a cookie. That would be a nice change. Things are too dark and bland here. Make one that looks like this, but smaller:

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 10:48 AM) Yeah, but given the contract Danks has and the injury he's coming off of, what would you expect to get for him if you took on none of his salary? I would say absolutely nothing. So unless we're eating a big portion of his salary to move him for peanuts (which is not something that seems beneficial to anyone), I can't imagine a trade of Danks resulting in the scenario Rock seems to be hinting at. I agree, I doubt we'd move Danks at all. He's a good player and should be a valuable piece of the puzzle going forward, so dumping him for nothing isn't smart business. I don't know why anyone would expect him to be out there unless someone comes out of nowhere and makes a good offer. BTW I have a source too. My source says the Sox are "definitely" trading Gavin Floyd and that there are "multiple offers" out there already. My guy says the Sox can pull the trigger right now if they wanted to but are going to wait for the winter meetings, as they believe that if a couple other pitchers sign it will boost Gavin's value. My source also says the Sox are "heavily shopping" and "eager" to move at least one big salary beyond Gavin's. Further, it has come to the attention of my source that the Sox FO is "enamored" with the idea of acquiring top prospects from other teams while moving out salary. My source knows everything. He also has heard that the sun "probably" rises in the east and that pizza is almost certainly going to be a popular food item while people are watching the Super Bowl next year.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 10:27 AM) Yeah, I don't think it would be Danks simply because he said the returns would be considered small by our standards or hopes...I can't imagine any return for Danks would be considered small right now. Question though: when is the last time the Sox traded a good, productive veteran player for a return (in prospects probably) that Soxtalk liked? I can't remember. Even 2 of our best deals in the CLee deal (salary space for JD & AJ + Pods + Viz) and the Freddy to Philly deal were hated. The last one I can think of was the Rowand + Gio + Haigwood deal for Thome. IIRC everyone liked that. Of course we got the best player in the deal there. The last time we sent a MLB vet for prospects that people liked was....???? My point is that we never like anything here. This "tidbit" could be about any player in any given deal.

Rick stop sitting on your Hahn's or I'm gonna start calling you Goldie you little f***er. At this point I don't even care if you trade Chris Sale to the Twins for a bag of balls, just do something. I'm not a football fan & I don't give a crap about the Bulls ATM. I don't even know what hockey is. Do something already because I miss my sports.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 21, 2012 -> 06:44 PM) What was the LOWEST pitch hit for a HR last season you ask? Delmon Young's lucky 3-run HR off Sale..... http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/t...-low-home-runs/ The ball was about 11 1/2 inches off the ground. EDIT: Delmon also had the 2nd farthest inside pitch hit for a HR. The #1 on that list? Miggy. Hard to call it luck when it was IIRC the 4th straight slider of the sequence.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 21, 2012 -> 12:38 PM) Kind of an odd move, unless there are others coming soon. Why not JorDanks for your 4th OF? Saves you 200k or so, and maybe he actually lives up to potential. His ceiling is higher than Wise, and he's under cheap control for a few more years. Wise is a better player almost all around and he gives away far fewer ABs. The $200K is inconsequential and there's no way he's reaching his potential playing irregularly. His ceiling, as a bench player, is far lower, and I'd argue that his ceiling as of this moment, in a 500-600 AB season, is still lower than Wise's. Control doesn't matter either. Every ST these guys are available in trade for nothing more than cash considerations. Jordan IMO is going to be on the short list of players whom the Sox will outright to Charlotte if/when they need the extra roster spot.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Nov 17, 2012 -> 01:24 PM) You idiot, Escobar plays for the Marlins now. Oh s***, sorry. Forgot about that, it's hard to keep track of all these goddamn baseball players anymore.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Nov 17, 2012 -> 01:23 PM) ^And if that kind of deal couldn't work, straight-up Floyd for Escobar is a fair deal IMO that helps out both teams. You idiot, Escobar plays for the Marlins now.

^And if that kind of deal couldn't work, straight-up Floyd for Escobar is a fair deal IMO that helps out both teams.

The Jays still have some talented prospects hanging around. Toronto needs another starting pitcher and relief depth. I wonder if they would do a deal centered around Floyd + Reed for Escobar + Sierra + pitching prospect(s). Picking up Yunel would give the Sox a lot of options. It would 1) help them move Alexei's contract if they could find a taker, 2) it would give them a 3B option just in case other ideas don't work out, and 3) it would give them another trade piece. Sierra would give the Sox more OF depth and would slot in somewhere this year either as a starter or backup depending on how the offseason goes.

Hector has the exact mindset you want out of a pitcher. Nice read & thanks for posting. Lots of new topics on SoxTalk this morning, it almost makes it look like our FO hasn't been sitting on their hands or something. Make a trade dadgummit.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) Friend just texted me AJ signed with the Tigers. I cried for a second. A friend with weed is a friend indeed.

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 01:14 PM) In other words, you better hope that giant jump is due to Mike Trout being on base and a HOFer being behind him. If it was just luck, you're going to see those numbers drop. Let's be real though -- Jackson Hunter (I guess they'll put him here?) Cabrera Fielder VMart That's a pretty good start to a lineup if they all play as they expect. That IF defense still sucks though. I hope they continue to keep adding bats and neglect their real issues.

Here's a challenge: Someone find a way to fill out the following 3-way deal so that it is at least somewhat realistic if improbable: Sox trade: Viciedo X Sox receive: Olt X DBacks trade: Upton DBacks receive: Viciedo X X Rangers trade: Olt X Rangers receive: Upton I included Viciedo here because outside of Sale he should be the highest trade value piece we have in the organization & supposedly Hahn is listening to offers on him.

QUOTE (Cali @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 09:07 PM) MBINAA Agree. Josh Johnson however is. Brandon Morrow is as well.

QUOTE (Cali @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 08:57 PM) Can't wait to watch the Blue Jays still only be a .500 team yet again in 2013 Farrell seemed like a s***ty manager judging by the carelessness & flashiness their players showed on the field. Getting him out of there is just going to be a good thing IMO. If they bring in the right manager, then it can boil down to a relatively simple equation of Talent + Confidence + Health = Success. They could be an excellent team next year. If Romero rebounds and Buehrle is Buehrle then you have 2 aces at the top and 2 #3's in the middle, plus lots of power and speed on offense, plus excellent athletes on the field defensively.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 08:46 PM) So can people understand why guys like FLoyd, Rios, Dunn, and Thornton don't have much trade value right now? Guys with big dollar contracts don't bring back big returns. Actually I think this deal kind of proves the opposite. There are some pretty good prospects going to the Marlins even with all the cash they are ditching. It clear the Marlins don't want to spend any money on players or try to play remotely competitive baseball even with their stadium just heading into its second year of operation. The return is fine actually IMO, the problem is Loria.