Flash Tizzle

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 10:28 PM) I think there are a lot of moving parts to every trade and people shouldn't just assume Q can get a similar package from another team or even would have gotten the same package from Arizona. You may not have known if Arizona would have given the same package, but you can't justify receiving less than this from another team. I'm sorry, you just can't. An equally important part of talking with other teams is an understanding of who may be desparate or appearing to put all the chips in

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 10:06 PM) Pretty obvious they want to compete in 2016. To me, Hahn has been a massive bust as a GM. His poor moves last offseason have crippled this roster. They're blinded by ambition, then. If we made this trade for Q anyone could have understood its merit. We're not going to compete with even Upton and A.Cabrera in the ALC. We have a pitching surplus for exactly this reason. If they dont trade Q now, they wont next season even if Fulmer and Montas are ML ready. It's just not a White Sox move. They'd trade both prospects for an underwhelming package

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 10:00 PM) I'm excited by this haul for Atlanta. I'm terrified by it too. I feel like this game is being played and the sox are in the corner playing with their blocks. They're busy trying to move the unmoveable LaRoche meanwhile the men are conducting business But remember, no one will overpay for Q! GMs dont do that anymore!

I'd really like to find out where Hahn was in all of this. It's annoying for me that given what we need, and what Arizona provided, we were nowhere to be seen.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 08:44 PM) That would be taking 2 steps back to take 5 steps forward. The Sox prefer to take 1 step forward and then 3 steps back. Exactly, and our weak minded management could never accept such a move. Always going for it are the White Sox!

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 08:40 PM) This is exactly why Q should be placed on the block. The return for him could change the direction of the franchise. It frustrates me reading of another team selling high on a player and taking advantage of another team's willingness to overpay to compete. White Sox NEVER make these deals and they desparately need to. And I don't want to hear, "these trades are rare," because it happens every damn offseason and at the trade deadline. We've seen from Kimbrell and now Miller what the return can be for good pitching. Take advantage of it, Hahn

My problem with Upton is first with the length of contract and AAV required for us to outbid everyone else, and second with how it potentially limits further moves. If we weren't near our anticipated payroll mark already, having Upton would damn near push us over. We'll have significantly upgraded RF, now what about 3B, SS, or 2B? We still realistically need atleast one or two more holes plugged, and even that still may not be enough! A followup question is IF they were to sign Upton, does that now make trading Quintana more or less likely? I understand Upton is an all-in KW Xbox signing, but how I figure is either way they'll be short. Either the rotation remains entact and 1/3 of our lineup in a tough division is still AAAA with little money to upgrade, or Quintana is dealt (obviously depleting the rotation) for a combination of one/two ML players and prospects. Our lineup with Upton AND whatever Q gives us could be a HUGE upgrade. Then, come 2017 we'd hopefully have Montas and/or Fulmer ready. Alternatively, if the rotation remained it could be elite with Quintana and those two ready. We'd also be far more certainty about whether trading Q is feasible depending on the progress of our prospects

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 04:31 PM) This makes me happy as a Cubs hater Those homeruns will be flying out of Wrigley in the summer.......from both Lackey and Bryant

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 12:35 PM) Schwarber and Gleyber Torres minimum or I hang up the phone. I'd much rather have that deal too, Hahn should concern himself with obtaining the best possible package more than one which fills our current roster. However, I just have this sinking feeling he'll base any trade for Q around multiple ML players to win now (which is going to leave us with a package like Baez and Castro)

When I think of Quintana and the Cubs I envision a trade involving Baez and Castro, with their side eating some of his remaining contract.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 12:06 PM) Another factor that hasn't been discussed much is that it could be possible to deal Avila/Navarro at the deadline as rentals if the Sox are out of it by then. Even if they're out of it they'll need someone to catch the baseball and throw it back to the pitcher. Unless either of those two just goes Buster Posey and their value explodes I can't imagine us dealing them. Even then, we'd just be more inclined to keep them for 2017 Also, let's not act like the White Sox will do us any favors and be out of it come midseason. They wait until August and September to collapse

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 09:39 PM) I'm excited for the change As am I. I'm also pleasantly surprised at how unexpected and un-White Sox it is to atleast TRY something different. How many people here had Alexi as our SS and Flowers as catcher? I'd venture to bet most here, because it's what we expected. Change is absolutely necessary with this team, mainly it's offense, and while I agree Flowers was hardly our biggest concern, he was one. Next unexpected but welcomed move should be riddin ourselves of Garcia

There is absolutely nothing for me to appreciate about Beckham. He represented everything poor about the post 2008 White Sox - failed expectations. I wouldn't root against him or anything, I just hope I never read another "he's baaaaccckkk" thread.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) i will disagree on this and for the following reasons. ~~ of the 8 yr it is going on 3 yrs of when FO gave the timeline ~~ the success of the northside team, they can not let that team continue to do the positive moves per the media outlet ~~ the careers of the main core players, how much longer can the team wait. ~~ the sox will continue to flounder until they, the FO does something drastic and positive that the fans can see.... meaning player movement. ~~ the adv money and success Are we going to hold the FO accountable then when year #3 passes and we've improved to 80 wins? I guarantee this timeline that Williams referenced once has already been thrown out the window. They didn't plan for this team to be as poorly as it was, as if it was their plan all along for a team wide offensive rebound in year #3 of the phantom timeline. I'm not advocating a complete rebuild, but I wouldn't want Hahn to do anything out of urgency thinking of the fans or competing with the Northside. I still think Quintana has to go for this team to move forward. We need another star offensive player, equivalent to Q in terms of value and contract. The Freese and A. cabrera's of the world just won't work. Yes, we won't replace Q with Montas or Fulmer (atleast right away), but considering the overall state of our offense you have to take advantage trading from a position of strength in pitching

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 02:19 AM) agree and the sox do not have a while. i would even go to some of the teams that has comp picks and make a trade for that pick, to hurry the rebuilding of the minor team talent pool.... if only the sox would have over spent on 1 yr of int't draft. Why don't they have awhile, are they going somewhere? We're already on year 8 without a playoff appearance. If they're going to rebuild the minors it'll take time.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 05:36 PM) Like others have said, this deal makes Sale & Quintana's trade value sky rocket. They are not trading either of them. Wait, let's examine this. Their value is sky high........so we're not going to trade them? I hope Hahn is willing to examine any possibility, every scenario, for improving this ballclub. If someone wants to overpay you hand either over immediately. And before the inevitable, " we'll never receive fair value," you base every trade proposal independent of others. What will we receive? How many of our holes are filled? This is why us hardcore fans are the best and worst for trade scenarios. We understand our ballclub more than anyone else, but we're so blinded by fan loyalty and our own biases that we can't remove ourselves and make an impartial evaluation of this team. Unless there's a substantial and unexpected offensive upgrade across the entire team, we won't compete. Now, how can we improve that? Platooning Avila and Flowers is only a small step. Granted, there's time to upgrade and I'm not critizing Hahn (yet) but he's not going to build a playoff team based on FA. Someone needs to go, and more than likely, it's going to be Quintana.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 13, 2015 -> 07:07 PM) Get going Hahn lol. Man we could clean up if we moved Sale or Q in relation to what the Pads got for Kimbrel. I'd like to thank the Padres for providing the groundwork for what our expectations should be. Which, to say, is even more than Kimbrell. Hahn needs exactly this type of return (adjusted more for a starter, of course) to improve this ballclub

Great start to the offseason.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 13, 2015 -> 03:37 PM) He will get some longer term offers, but I could easily see where he makes the decision to bet on himself and be able to make a lot more money. Then again, you put a 2nd poor year in and that longer term deal is gone. The sad thing is, it seems that a major driver for him not taking the article is he had a lot of issues with the White Sox. All players are different, but given he didn't have a history of issues with two different organizations, it makes you wonder about the health of the Sox culture. So....either way you're right! If Shark were to accept he's going against Boras, because I can't see him advising his client to turn down 3-4 years of more than 12 million per season on the possibility (gambling with health, effectiveness) of earning more next season.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Nov 13, 2015 -> 11:40 AM) I see no reason we can't be competitive again by 2017 with the right moves made, it's not like we were as bad as the Phillies this year. A full rebuild means punting on the next 4-5 seasons with no guarantee we'll be any better off, no thanks. The threat of the Royals is way overstated, they're losing a lot this offseason, their starting pitching still sucks, and Holland is hurt all of next year. The Royals are overstated, yet the Twins and Indians are understated. Those three positions may switch. We're exactly in the same spot above the Tigers. And yes, i'll give the standard disclaimer of the offseason has just begun and there's going to be roster changes. I'm of the position that until Hahn proves otherwise, my expectations aren't changing from the end of 2015.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 13, 2015 -> 12:45 PM) Samardjiza won't be nearly that bad next year. 2015 was a fluke based mostly off of bad defense. That's fine, and he can have his rebound season in the National League. He's not needed back here.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 13, 2015 -> 10:58 AM) If you are that worried about Erik Johnson, you are overrating him., We'll need a replacement for Danks, eventually. I'd prefer a full year of starts (hopefully 180-200 innings) to judge whether or not he'll be a suitable replacement, which I believe he will be. EJ has had a solid minor league career and if nothing else, will be a cheap solution at the back end of the rotation. He has more value than many here think. He'll never be a centerpiece of any significant deal. However, if we're trading EJ, we damn well better receive a replacement level player at one of our black holes. It should be someone also low on service time and whom we're able to plug in 3B, SS, 2B for cheap.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 13, 2015 -> 10:17 AM) I'd actually be fine with it. You'd be fine with delaying the development of Johnson and effectively limiting one, maybe two, FA signings? We'd all but have to trade Quintana.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 11, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) Re-reading the article I think he is obviously trying to put things into perspective. All of these other teams that people want to emulate took between 5 and 10 years of being awful to get to where they are now. The Sox are trying to speed that time line up. He is trying to realign expectations a bit, but still send the message that they aren't punting for a half of a decade. At no point does he say they are starting a new rebuild, only continuing what they started a few years back. It's time to speed things up quite a bit, we've completed our 7th straight season without a playoff appearance. What we're doing isn't working, obviously. And what's maddening is NO ONE has learned anything. I wish we would f***ing rebuild, not "on the fly" but a FULL rebuild. Will it work? Who knows, but I'd atleast like a comparison to draw off of. I have years of evidence that suggests the current group and their philosophies for constructing ballclubs has been disasterous Just look at Minnesota. Last playoff appearance in 2010, god awful for a few years, now come 2016 better positioned to compete. That's honestly how we should go about it. We're well behind KC and no better than Cleveland. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if come 2020 Detroit makes it back to the playoffs before us. Otherwise, we should atleast be critical of Hahn as fans and start putting high expectations on him to turn this around immediately. We need to stop shoulder shurgging mediocrity. Every move has to work; every trade, every signing, everything. Why bother going through another 2015 season in 2016? We know the problems, now Hahn has to address them

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 10, 2015 -> 08:00 AM) Hmm sure seems like a strange way to execute a 3 year plan.Last year the plan was vets and now its youngsters. There never was a definite three year plan. Let's not give Williams quote more attention than it deserves. Here is Hahn, the GM, flat out saying we need young, cost controlled talent. He said more right there than Williams ever did with his three year nonsense. If by chance there was, I'm glad they're abandoning it.