Flash Tizzle

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:02 AM) Sources continue expressing doubt #WhiteSox will move Sale or Quintana. That said, #Dodgers have pieces to make overwhelming offer. @MLB https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/756143995336597505 Kershaw may be needing surgery and possibly wont be back this year. Unbelieve, if we miss out on trading either to the Dodgers for an overwhelming offer, and someone below the quality of Q or Sale receives it, Hahn should be fired. This is what we wait for, a team to take advantage of. I just don't want to see Rich Hill traded for a great package while we're twiddling around

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 09:10 AM) I think we'll move a reliever or two. I still think they see next year as the "last chance" with this core. What sense does it make to move a reliever or two only to try again next year? You cannot just easily fix this mess. We're not going to improve via FA, or unloading more prospects (the few we have) for talent. It's a shame Sale likely won't reach the playoffs with this team, but that's not his failt. Hahn needs to think sensibly and understand the position we're in. Take one step back for two steps forward. If we can improve across several positions by trading Quintana or Sale, it must be done. I mentioned before in another thread, the sentiment of selling at this point is largely supported by Sox fans. I haven't read one goof mention anything about White Flag or bring up past instances of teams overcoming the odds to make the playoffs, which have overwhelmed this board in the past years. We're all tired of the same "one more year to compete," "rebuilding on the fly," nonsense. Knock it down, learn our lessons, and start over.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 05:56 PM) Let the fire sale begin!! Then we can all b**** they didn't get enough! I'd rather go this route and get swindled than continuing what we've done since 2008. Show initiative and try selling, I guaramtee if Hahn doesn't end up winning any fire sale trades he'll be fired. Atleast we'd speed up the process. Why not atleast try something different?

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) This is probably the likely outcome - it would be surprising, even after another mediocre season, for them to blow it up and start fresh. Their starting rotation is locked up and should be set (barring injury) for next season - at least the top 4, and if the 5th spot is an open competition, that's not an issue. The defense has improved, but offensively, as you mentioned, there are holes throughout the lineup. It's a shame that the offensive pipeline from the minors is non-existent with the possible exception of Tim Anderson. Are we living in a Twilight Zone episode? This same sentiment has been repeated year after year.....and we're in exactly the same position. So we'll be entering 2017 yet again having to fill offensive holes via trade and the scrap heap. It doesn't work out for us, and looking at our record since 2005 few ideas for roster construction have worked. You know the one idea we haven't tried? Selling players with high value! If Hahn fails at receiving high value, which many are afraid of, so be it. He'll be embarrassed, then fired and we'll start over. It's a risk I'd be willing to accept. Continuing on this course of mediocrity will not change our fortunes. And honestly, if the results of the tradeline thread is any indication, a large portion of the fanbase would support selling. Yeah I know....sample size, we're a passionate segment of the fanbase, but assuming the overall result holds true, I don't think many would be upset with selling players like Quintana, Sale if we received good value. Even if it meant conceeding on the season and perhaps the next

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 04:49 PM) I'd much rather have won the first 3 games and lost this one than lost the first 3 and won this one. I don't know what you're talking about. I know I'm not talking about anything you just suggested. Point is, the good vibes from winning three against Boston is erased by this embarrassing effort if they lose. We've seen from a certain May game in Texas how momentum works with this team

This is where winning the first three games against Boston doesn't matter. Terrible AB's these last few innings

Bases loaded 0 outs, again. Please don'tscrew this up White Sox

Absolutely terrible AB from Eaton. He couldn't find the zone, so Eaton decided to help him

If I was a Boston fan I'd be furious this series. Struggling with RISP, struggling bullpen, basically doing what the White Sox have done this year and be just the team to reinvigorate a struggling club

Also personally I'm worried about holding onto Sale one season too long. Irrational as it may be, he pitches well through this season that'll be five years of tremendous production. All we could ever ask for. It's unfortunate he'll have yet to pitch in the playoffs for the White Sox, but that's not his fault management couldn't put together a team. Please Hahn, if the value is there trade him while you can.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 01:57 PM) Trading Sale at this point would be pretty unprecedented when you combine his performance, with his long term contract. The return should reflect that. I mean think of the return for Mark Texeirea. Then realize that he was years closer to free agency than Sale. A return for Chris Sale should be something that should turn around a franchise. Otherwise, why would the White Sox do it? White Sox are a victim of not benefiting from any franchise altering trades. I'm not suggesting it's a fault of Hahn (He hasn't dealt any core players) but our organization needs a deal where we're receiving two/three quality players for one. Every offseason a trade happens where everyone is left saying, "how in the world did they receive that much," and we're never benefitting from it. Oh I know, everyone wants to be on the rceiving end of those -- but that's a large step towards breaking through our mediocre rutt. Otherwise, what's the alternative? Continue signing second/third tier scraps and building around our core? If we have an infusion of talent through trading even one of Quintana, Sale, Abreu, Eaton, then it needs to be considered.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:27 PM) I can't believe they pitched to Abreu. I don't even think Robin does that. I can't believe Kimbrel threw anything but a slider down and away

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:59 PM) It's hard to think of anyone in this organization that deserves to keep their job. Maybe the new scouting director, as at least he hasn't shown to be horrible at his job yet. Besides that, this organization is easily one of the worst in baseball. We're easily among the worst because we're actively trying to succeed but continue to fail. It's always worse when expectations are attached. And changes move with glacial pace in the White Sox organization. Atleast those cellar dwelling NL teams understand their position.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 01:49 PM) They aren't pulling the plug, but a trip to the DL is probably in order if he puts up another stinker. Why not? Admit you made a mistake and move on. Also, for everyone who suggests "no team would take Shields," what does it say that we took him? It was a terrible move from the beginning. Nearly every move made last offseason and extending into this season has been terrible

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:15 AM) Remember when we the BoSox screwed up this franchise last year during their 7 game win streak to make us believe maybe we could make the playoffs? hopefully its the opposite this year.... Sweep us. Fire Robin. Trade off a few of your pieces and move on. I say a few because I do believe that take out Lawrie, C, and CF and replace with "baseball players" meaning -- Kevin Keirmeirer type ppl and this team is still very good. I just look though each year and go - why couldn't we sign a guy like Rajai Davis for pennies? Or Uribe? why is it always the other teams that sign these guys? Rajai Davis at the top of your order stealing 40 bases would change the dynamic of this team. Hell even with Anderson at the top I feel completely different. He gets on with a single and all of a sudden steals a base.... and then eaton, Abreu, or frazier gets a single and all of a sudden its 1-0. Many on Soxtalk weren't fooled by the win streak, though. The problem is the people fooled were the one's in charge of the team, and those few screaming of "White Flag." Yet when the season concluded those same, overly optmistic and rarely critical fans just shrugged their shoulders and essentially said, oh well!

QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:03 AM) Blowing it up sounds appealing when a fan is raging after a series sweep, but you have to cool off and step back from the ledge. It's all too easy to talk about it (I've done it myself many times), but is anyone in here really patient enough to suck hard for the next 5 years while young players develop? Have all the possible ramifications of that kind of dramatic move been fully considered? I don't think so. Does anyone in here think that there are ready takers for all of the guys we'd like to trade off? That's not a foregone conclusion and it's a big assumption. It's entirely possible that we couldn't get back in trade what we're seeking, in which case you can't make the trades. Even if in a fantasy scenario we are able to trade each and every player for all of the return value we want, most minor league prospects don't pan out. What if we go through a rebuild, suck for 4-5 years, and have nothing to show for it? Then we suck for 5 more and we're approaching 20 years without making the playoffs. That is a distinct possibilitySox ownership knows that they already have modest attendance by league standards. Even when the team started the season hot at 23-10, the attendance still wasn't that great. They have to retain a few all-star type players to lure fans to the ballpark, otherwise there will be 10 people at the Cell. That said, they will never trade all of the guys away, especially not a super-bargain like Sale. It's not happening. There still must be a face of the franchise and Sale is it in 2016. If the wager were available in Vegas, I would bet the house that the Sox will not do a total blow up no matter what happens this season. They will keep their core and start fresh at trying to build around it - same as they've always done. I feel like every poor season after 2008 we've had this same discussion, and predictably, there have been the same arguments regurgitated against a full rebuild. What's so unbelievable to me is, a full rebuild (I define as trading several players with actual value) is the ONE idea we haven't tried! The White Sox have attempted variations of rebuilding on the fly, trading players at low value, patch working on second/third tier FA's......but never trading players with high value. We're afraid of a dwindling attendance, yet already experience that. We're afraid of prolonged losing, yet already experience that. We're afraid of not trusting Hahn, yet he hasn't been in a position to trade someone at their highest value. If he fails, so what? We've failed every other way the last several seasons. Atleast we'd know how Hahn would handle a rebuold. Every year we delay this decision is another we're left floundering doing the same thing expecting different results. Read the last sentence from Doc's post-- our answer to this terrible team is to do exactly what we've done. LOL. I'm not suggesting immediate or Cub like results with rebuilding, but rather, an option that we haven't explored. I'm tired of having our "core" surrounded by garbage

QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ May 30, 2016 -> 01:33 PM) Harvey certainly looks like the guy we saw in the playoffs last year. All he needed was the White Sox as his opponent. He still doesn't look very good to me. His breaking pitches look like absolute garbage. We're just unable to hit fastballs collectively as a team

QUOTE (fathom @ May 30, 2016 -> 12:14 PM) Of course Harvey has his best fastball today He has had it before today as well. No excuses for not tagging him. Harvey is mentally weak, and if they battle against him he'll implode

QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 30, 2016 -> 12:03 PM) Everyone knows Harvey will throw a 7 inning gem the way things are going right now. Facing tge White Sox will be just what he needs to set him on the right track

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ May 29, 2016 -> 04:14 PM) It used to be just Quintana's issue, but it is now plaguing the whole team. We get a hitter to 0-2 or 1-2 and just throw ball after ball after ball. My god, there is NOT a rule against throwing a ball in the strike zone with 2 strikes. No kidding, it's incredibly frustrating watching these relievers just waste pitches hoping the opposing batters will chase. Then before you know it the count is full and here comes a walk

QUOTE (whitesoxjr27 @ May 13, 2016 -> 03:21 PM) Signing Jake Arrieta to a long-term deal is the right choice for the Cubs http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/...ore-free-agency I'm sure whatever contract extension he signs won't hamstring their payroll (atleast until some of their younger players also start receiving higher salaries), but Jake to me just hasn't looked the same. His average velocity is down (which is supported by PitchFX), although admittingly he does seem to historically start lower. But what I've noticed is just the lack of bite to some of his pitches and his control is off. Even Jake Arrieta at 80% is still an awesome pitcher, although I'd be weary going anywhere over 200 million. I really believe he's a year or two away from major shoulder injury. I know people don't think much of his delivery, but it's so damn unnatural and he only recently redeveloped it.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 3, 2016 -> 10:04 PM) Sox CSN twitter 15,025 in attendance tonight at U.S. Cellular Field in a battle of the Sox. #WhiteSoxTalk That's just awful. You're better than this, B>W. I never understand why any of this matters. If they continue winning, the fans will come. We're all aware of how things work. We're also aware there will be random home games, mainly on a weekday, that don't draw well. If history and the apparent sale of 100,000 tickets isn't enough, I won't be bothered one bit. More room for me in the park

QUOTE (aboz56 @ May 3, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) Good riddance. Never liked the contract extension from day one. He's been stealing money for years. More surprising than releasing Danks is seeing this guy post. I don't think I've seen him around here in a decade!

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 29, 2016 -> 04:29 PM) It doesn't surprise me. One more start to evaluate him and give Gonzalez, Turner, and Johnson a look before deciding who to call up next. We can't look at it as one more start to evaluate him. That's ridiculous. We know exactly who he is and what he's capable of. And if he gives the team a quality start, what now? Will that give him four more starts afterward?

QUOTE (shysocks @ Apr 29, 2016 -> 04:22 PM) Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 49s50 seconds ago Robin Ventura said John Danks will start again on Wednesday. #WhiteSox are off on Monday. Jose Quintana would go Tuesday vs. Boston. *tomato flies past head* Typical White Sox. Danks needs to get shelled. We'll never get the message otherwise. Take one bad game here to prevent many more