ChiSox59

I am very OK with the Tigers handing a decent lefty $20M a year.

It is trading Vaughn to make room for Gavin tho. The Sox have 2 holes in the everyday lineup. Two. They can easily fill them via FA and trading non cornerstone guys. 2B doesn’t even need to that great of a guy as long as he fits into bottom of order nicely and fields his position. There are options there. Sure another high end SP would be swell but that one i am not at all counting on.

Vaughn is cheap talent. Trading him to make room for Gavin fuckin Sheets is a fireable offense. No one thinks we need more left handed sticks than I do, but just acquire RF and 2B that fill those needs. If you need to trade, don’t trade cornerstone guys. I will be so god damn mad I’d they trade AV - he’s going to be special. Gavin is just a guy that had a solid debut. He’s nice to have around and fills a few needs, but let’s not jam a square peg into a round hole here.

Why can’t Vaughn play LF and Eloy DH? Seems easy enough to me. Sheets is solid and all and I am not saying we get rid of him, but also don’t think we need to hand him the DH job. Trading AV would suck.

I just think that’s a lot of $ and years for him. He’s a good not great pitcher and I just don’t see him repeating 2021 with consistency.

I'd rather roll with what we have 100x over as opposed to handing Gausman $28M AAV over 5 years. That deal would be atrociously bad for whoever hands it out.

Sure, but at some point he become upper 30s Max Scherzer. We saw some signs that may be coming in 21. Don't get me wrong, Sox sign Max Scherzer for 2/$80M and Conforto for 4/$70M and cruise by $200M payroll ---- no one is happier than I am. I just also live in reality.

Exactly. Such a lazy take. But lets hand a 38 year old worn down Scherzer 30% of our budget for 22! What could possibly go wrong?

You just cited both Fried and Anderson as aces as if they were obviously superior to the Sox SP. Giolito had a higher fWAR, more Ks, better K/9, and lower opponent batting average. Fried had a better era, but xERA and xFIP were close. I'd give Fried a slight nod in overall 2021 performance, but it was close. I don't think Fried is some slam dunk ace if Gioltio isn't. Gio was pretty clearly better than Anderson this season. If we're talking ace as in one of the best 5-8 SP in the games, none of them are. But again, the Sox SP is every bit as good as the Braves SP who just won the WS.

Giolito and Lynn are every bit as good as Fried and Anderson. And Kopech and Cease aren't far behind. On an fWAR basis, Cease was better than all of them.

IMO, the Sox SP is good enough to win a world series as is. They just need to show up. We have 4 guys who are all TOR caliber pitchers. Unfortunately, they all flopped in the playoffs. Would it be great to add a legit #1? Of course. But I don't see hte sox handing Scherzer 2/$80M, and I also don't see that ending all that well if they did.

Thanks, completely forgot about that. Appreciate reminder.

I actually said this day trade was made. I love Heuer. So not revisionist history for all. Bad trade was bad and got worse everyday.

Yeah - no. Love Liam and he was a good fit and signing, but I don't put relievers on the same level of impact as everyday players.

Only 2 more years of Gio and Lynn, each.

Yeah, its a concern. I'd love to bring in a legit SP too, just don't think its realistic to plug every hole. Between Archer, Quintana, Lambert, Stiever and McClure they can hold down the #5 spot and see if anyone is worthy and if not make a move in June. Between the latter 3 mentioned above, these guys aren't getting any younger and we're pretty much at sink or swim time. You also have Lopez would could factor in and perhaps Crochet in the 2nd half. So there are options. The non-tender deadline should unearth a few more cheap options in FA, so I reserve my right to adjust the Archer pick for #5 spot until then. But I just don't think Conforto + top end SP is happening. And I really, really, really, really do not want to trade Vaughn. Or Eloy. I would, however, trade some our HS pitching prospects if any of them have any value left to get back a solid innings eater type in last year or two of arb. But Kelley, Thompson and Dalquist all sucked in 2021, so not holding my breath.

Sign Conforto (4 years; $70M) Trade Keuchel + Burger for Tommy La Stella (stealing La Stella idea from @Chicago White Sox), Re-sign Leury (2 years; $8M); LaStella may not be ready for ST and TLR loves him some Larry; All you can eat AAAA trade: Zack Collins, Micker Adolfo and Blake Rutherford to PIT for Jacob Stallings (all those guys get a chance with a bad club that can give them the chances) Trade Kimbrel to Phillies for Seranthony Dominguez and Mickey Moniak (Phils eat whole bill; Moniak just AAAA insurance and likely nothingburger) Re-sign Ryan Tepera (2 years; $15M) Sign Chris Archer (1 year; $7.5M full of incentives) Sign Jose Quintana to minor league deal Roll up your sleeves and going to work with one of the best rosters in the game. Payroll in this scenario is in the low-$180M, which frankly is about as low as it can realistically be if Sox are serious.

I am extremely bullish on Kopech as a starter. Truthfully, I think he can be one of the best in the game. There will be some lumps in 2022, and you can't expect him to pitch more than 150 innings or so. But its time. He's going to be good. Its just a damn shame we're already down to 4 years of control due to complete mismanagement. I expect him to be one of our better SP next summer.

The savings remains to be seen, but 5-6 year deal in the $20-23’ m range was probably what he looking at coming off 2020. Something just slightly below what Springer got. At that price, I’d pass. At 4/$70M, he’s at worst making what he’s worth as long as he stays healthy. Bottom line is there are limited options in FA to fix the Sox problem. Conforto is an obvious solution.

It could also turn into a great contract quick. Conforto hurt his payday with a down 21. To what extent, we don’t quite know yet. But if he falls in the 3-4 year deal between $15-$18M AAV most think, he could easily become a bargain and those are hard to find in FA. Conforto solves a lot of problems with this offense and he (while not an elite defender) substantially improves the current OF defense. He’s far and away the best free agent for the Sox that is realistic since Yasmani Grandal.

$8.5M for a guy the Yanks basically DFA in September.

Which is almost exactly double the 2/$38M deal you're pointing to as evidence. You may well be right about the Sox signing Scherzer. But I will believe it when it see it, and giving him perhaps the last deal of his career does feel like something the Sox would do. Let's pay a premium price for a player that is not nearly what he once was is something they've traditionally liked to do, though admittedly not a player this expensive.

His inability to work more than 5 innings the 2nd half of the season and multiple trips to IL would seem to agree. Yet some want to make him one of the highest paid players on the team? I get it - it was a close call. But the outrage is silly. Sox were handcuffed if he accepted. Much like they are with Kimbrel.

I would have rode him hard and put him away wet and let him be someone else's problem in 22. I've said this numerous times even early in this season. Feel free to look it up. They did precisely what I beleived was the best route. Did I think he'd have the 2.5 months he did? Nah. But the dude wasn't useful in the 2nd half and he's not worth the risk of $18.3M. Had Carlos done something he's really never done...stay healthy....we wouldn't be having this conversation. But, as always, he didn't...and he cost himself a ton of $. Just a few short months ago you were clamoring about how he was going to surpass Wheeler's $120M.

Sure, but we all know they aren't blowing by $200M. So you can nitpick all you want, but when we have likely an $180M max budget, spending $18.5M on a pitcher that's been above average for 1 2.5 month stint in a 6 year career and has MAJOR injury concerns....maybe....just maybe....is not a wise allocation of resources.