ChiSox59

He is just accustomed to believing that there is no way in fucking hell the Sox would commit $600M+ towards 2 players in one offseason. And that is fair. There is absolutely nothing in the history of the organization that would suggest they'd do that. I think the odds are long to land both, but getting Machado signed helps to get Harper signed, if in fact the Sox would actually make the commitment.

Realistically we already have a guy like that in Colome. He's basically on a two year $16-18M deal (with the second year non guaranteed), and his value could definitely increase if given the closers role and he excels. Really no need to add another potential closer if this team's offense remains putrid. That's like buying a Ferrari but you can't afford the gas.

I agree adding any of Ottavino, Herrera or Britton would be nice, but my thoughts are the Sox are kind of waiting to see what this team looks like before committing significant dollars to FA relievers. If we land Machado and let's say Pollock for example, hell ya, let's go out and further extend our bullpen and get another SP. But if we strike out on Machado/Harper, may as well just let the kids have the bullpen for another season and see who rises from the ashes. I wont list all the names, but the Sox have a ton of guys who profile as major league relievers and most of them are major league ready, or least damn close. Some will definitely flame out, and others like Fulmer probably already have, but if the Sox are going to for sure suck again in 2019, may as well give all those guys another trial run. You can add a guy like Ottavino next offseason.

I would be really surprised if the Sox were offering any opt outs before 5 seasons (2023). Whats the point? Even with one in hand, the most optimistic fans think the first year of possible contention is 2020, with 2021 more likely. Thats already three seasons. Obviously its better to have had them for 3 seasons than none, and it helps bring the Sox back to relevance, but I think the Sox would rather pay higher AAV in those 5 years than provide opt outs before the core of the rebuild in even fully in place and had a little time to develop together in the bigs.

The Sox could most definitely fit both into the payroll. Are they willing to expand their payroll north of $175M from 2022-2025? Who knows. But I do tend to agree that they would be a bit more sense of urgency from both guys if they felt teams teams like the Phillies or White Sox would only be interested in one, as that constitutes a large percentage of the interested teams. It all comes down to price. If the Sox can actually get Machado signed for under $250M, I think Harper is more realistic. I also think having MM in hand would interest Harper. But as I've said many times, I just don't think Harper is really entertaining the Sox seriosuly. He seems like a guy that loves the limelight and is meant for a team like LAD, the Cubs, Yankees or Red Sox. Obviously only half those teams are even somewhat in contention for him, but I think he waits it out until he gets what he wants, where he wants. Machado is a different story, IMO.

I don't really blame Machado, I'd be doing the same thing if I were him. It's just a broken system. Teams are much smarter than they used to be. But that being said, if the Sox have an offer like 7 years / $245M on the table, that certainly isn't anything to scoff at. $35M per year still makes MM the richest AAV ever signed in the game. But obviously $235M is +/- $100M short of what many of us expected him to land. I think Hahn is playing this correctly. No reason to pay him many tens of millions more than we need to. Play the game and see where we land, but don't be the sucker.

Man, I thought we had light at the end of the MM tunnel. Now it appears this could drag on quite a bit longer. Definitely a frustrating process to follow as a fan. I can imagine Hahn is pretty frustrated as well, as the rest of the offseason moves hinge on whether or not Machado is landed.

Yawn

The Yankees "insiders" sure are remaining confident.

lol

They have a huge incentive to put ink to paper before April, because their pool of teams is only going to shrink by the day as they fill their needs elsewhere, not increase.

We're on the same page. I've repeated in constantly so won't again, but Machado is such a better fit for the future of the franchise, it really isn't even close. Harper would be great if MM signs elsewhere, and both would be a dream come true, but if you can only have one, I am taking MM 100/100 times. Winning cures all. Having one of the best all around players in the game who is a two way player is far more valuable than having a guy who is considered to be a face of the MLB, and considered to have a generational bat, but has really only capitalized on that one of his first 6 full seasons. Winning baseball games > selling jerseys and promotional opportunities.

Fuck marketability. I want to win baseball games, which is like, the point of playing baseball games.

Pollock definitely has big time red flags, but it all boils down to if the Sox land Machado and what Pollock's market looks like. If you can get him for a deal between Brantley (2/$32) and Cutch (3/$50), I think you have to jump on it. We have a gaping black hole in CF, and if you sign Machado, you may as well attempt to put a decent product on the field. 2 years would definitely be better than 3. I know he wants like 5-7 years, but he isn't going to get that.

Lol

Quite the departure from your usual negative takes.

And at that rate, go ahead and trade a couple of Rutherford, Basabe, Walker and Gonzalez for a nice SP. I want to keep Adolfo, for whatever reason, I think he turns into a monster.

Pollock CF, Moncada 2B, Machado 3B, Harper RF, Abreu DH, Eloy LF, Alonso 1B, Castillo C, Anderson SS Oh my oh my. ?

The term "official offers" is so subjective. Its completely feasible that no team but that team that signs any player ever gives an "official offer". Like, of course a fully negotiated executable contract isn't extended until you know the player is signing with your club. There is a zero percent chance that legitimate offers have not been made to Machado at this point. He just needs to agree to a contract in principle, and then the actual contract is drawn up, making it "official".

Machado is definitely a bit of a douche, but he also plays with passion. He cares about winning. The hard slides into 2B and the jawing at other players shows he cares. That is the type of stuff that was lauded and respected 20-30 years ago. Now in today's pattycake world he's considered a dirty player (the ankle step was a dirty play and he obviously should not have done that). But that type of stuff used to be commonplace. Generally speaking, baseball has become a pretty soft game, and he is one of the few old school type players left. Like AJ was for the White Sox - he's a dbag, but he could be OUR dbag. But he just so happens to be one of the best all around players in the game. I am not really worried about him being a clubhouse problem at all. This team could certainly play with a bit more fire.

I think that is all fair. I just think winning is the best thing for fan perception. Signing Harper to a $350M+ megadeal for him to provide 3.5 fWAR over the next 4-5 seasons (which is about what he has averaged his last 3), probably isn't going to make the Sox a WS contender. He is likely a 1B or DH by the mid point of his contact, and even if he sticks in the corner OF, that is easily the deepest position of Sox prospects. Look, I'd love to get Harper. I just much prefer Machado. Getting both would obviously be a dream come true.

Except Machado is the better all around baseball player, and plays a position that is of much greater need over the course of the contract. MM is a plus defender whereas Harper is not. Harper may have more offensive upside, but he certainly hasn't played to it in recent seasons. I also think Harper is going to be more inclined to sign with a traditional power. Video game covers and ASG votes aren't nearly as important to me (not important at all, frankly) as being a better baseball player and better long term fit for this organization to develop into a perennial playoff team. MM certainly isn't without risks at this level of commitment, but I think its really not even close as to which guy is the better fit for the White Sox moving forward. Getting Machado signed certainly can't hurt with the Sox chances of getting Harper as well, if they keep their offer on the table to him post-MM signing.

Thanks for clarifying. That's a pretty positive statement.

I just think its fairly positive that 1) He wouldn't really have a reason to make this up. He's a LA and Dodger guy so makes sense he would be connected with people close to Machado. And 2) He only mentioned it on a Dodger podcast. He isn't blasting out on twitter himself to "be the first on it". I haven't listened to the podcast myself, but what was the exact wording. "Manny Machado is considering the White Sox" and "Manny Machado is leaning toward signing with the White Sox", are very different things. The former is nothing we don't already know. The latter is news.

Could certainly do worse than Delgado. Appeared in the big every season since 2011. Still just 28. One season removed from a solid performance over 63 IP. Not a bad piece to have around.